Samsung 840 Pro's in RAID 0

Discussion in 'Memory and Storage' started by wyssin, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. wyssin

    wyssin Junior Member

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    Is Samsung's Magician software necessary to be able to use the Samsung 840 Pro SSDs?
    What functionality exactly does the Magician software provide?

    I want to set up two 840 Pro drives in RAID 0, along the lines described in Anand's article from August 2012, only using 840s instead of the 830s used in the article.

    On the website I see Magician software (version 3.2 or 4.0) and Data Migration Tool (version 1.0 or 1.1), as well as a driver. I don't see any manuals online or clear descriptions of what the Magician functions are.

    The Samsung website also warns that after Magician is engaged the SSD will not be recognized if it is part of a RAID array, which would seem to be a reason to NOT want to install the software in my situation.
     
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  3. Baked

    Baked Lifer

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    What motherboard are you using? I setup my RAID 0 using the mobo's integrated bios software.
     
  4. Lifted

    Lifted Diamond Member

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    I have 2 840's (non-pro) in RAID 0 and Magician does not detect them. Instead it detects an Intel array without any knowledge of it consisting of 2 Samsung SSD's. All other SSD utilities see them though. Forget about Magician. What did you want to use it for anyway?
     
  5. Unit'Igor

    Unit'Igor Member

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    Yes Magician cant see drive in raid field,stupid DECISION FROM SAMSUNG.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Intel i7 3770K - ASUS P8Z77 V-DELUXE - Patriot Viper Extreme 2 x 4Gb 2133 - 2 x Samsung 840 PRO 128Gb Raid0 - Gigabyte HD7850 OC 2GB - Windows 7 64 bit
     
    #4 Unit'Igor, Apr 2, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2013
  6. Engineer

    Engineer Elite Member

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    Are you calling the Magician software "stupid" or the OP?

    I'll hold off on any other commentary until I see an explanation.
     
  7. Emulex

    Emulex Diamond Member

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    has anyone seen those new OP 840 pro's called the SM843 - they have drive light activity
     
  8. Unit'Igor

    Unit'Igor Member

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    I called Samsung decision that making raid invisible in Magician stupid thing to do.I thought it was obvious.
    This is something that i wrote about two months ago.
    third reply from the bottom of the page,reply from Igor Novak


    Edit your original post so as not to be misunderstood further.

    Thanks,

    Burner27 - Moderator
    Memory & Storage
     
    #7 Unit'Igor, Apr 2, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2013
  9. wyssin

    wyssin Junior Member

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    ASRock OC Formula
     
  10. wyssin

    wyssin Junior Member

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    Well, I don't know whether I need Magician at all. That's part of my question. Samsung hasn't provided clear info on exactly what all Magician does so that I can make the decision easily. I haven't found any separate manual or guide for download on the website explaining what Magician does. On the CD included with the SSD, there are .exe files, which I have to assume will load/runMagician. Maybe there are help files or manuals that become available from within Magician, but that's a catch-22 -- you have to load the program to be able to see what the program does.

    From what I gather reading other forums, Magician is necessary to be able to load firmware updates, which is something I DO want to be able to do though.

    I have access to another computer that's running in AHCI. Should I plug the SSDs into that computer in AHCI, run Magician, install the new firmware, then put the SSDs back into my computer and run them in RAID?
     
  11. wyssin

    wyssin Junior Member

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    That article helps! It looks like just about everything that Magician does can be done through other means. The main question I have is how to update the firmware without using Magician.
     
  12. Hellhammer

    Hellhammer AnandTech Emeritus

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  13. Emulex

    Emulex Diamond Member

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    Watch out for all these LSI on motherboard - samsung 840 and 840 pro's are unsupported by LSI. They have removed them from their list and refuse to support them for 92xx controllers. They are however supported by the 3ware which is the same exact controller (hardware identical) with AV/mac pro/uefi support.

    lame. Confirmed by many on webhostingtalk and lowendtalk - the only lsi help you will get is to buy the SM843 enterprise drives which are just 840 pro's with more OP and drive light activity and have less cache (!!) and write slower.

    So far i've have one 840 pro drop after a week of service, popped it into a pc and it was 100% new and showed no smart errors in magician. Heavy load from ESXi - the replacement rebuilt and has not blipped ever since. Probably shitty firmware as LSI is the king of krappy firmware and drivers imo.

    Probably why HP ditched them for PMC-Adaptec.
     
  14. kleinkinstein

    kleinkinstein Senior member

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    I find Magician utterly useless. It serves no point.
     
  15. Batmeat

    Batmeat Senior member

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    I'd like to back this thread up a bit and ask the OP why you need raid 0?

    I had two gen 2 corsair ssd's in raid 0 Benchmarking about 400mb read/write and couldn't tell a difference between my vertex 3 (550mb read/write) and my vertex 4 (500mb read/write). What is it you're trying to load and run that needs to be so fast? Honestly, I don't have an 840 pro (yet) but I imagine simply running from a single drive would be fast enough. However, if you simply want raid 0 because you can... Then I understand. I'm the same way. I demand high performance.
     
  16. maxcellerate

    maxcellerate Junior Member

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    I installed magician as it's supposed to 'optimise windows' which I thought might be useful as my clean install has taken 120gb for itself, but like others here I've found that magician can't recognise the raided drives.
    Looks like I'm going to have to 'optimise' windows the hard way...
     
  17. Socio

    Socio Golden Member

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    Perhaps it can only see and optimize a drive if AHCI is enabled and going to a raid disables it?

    I have my OS on a 840 pro and use the magician software to optimize the drive and OS, it also has a nice benchmark program and a temp file cleaner I find handy.
     
  18. maxcellerate

    maxcellerate Junior Member

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    Something like that, certainly no AHCI for raided drives.

    As to the RAID itself, maybe it's to early to say as I haven't run apps seriously yet but it is taking 3.5mins (yes that's THREE AND A HALF MINUTES) to start window 7.

    This isn't as bad as it sounds as it's pretty quick once your in there's a surprising amount of other stuff you can get done in 3.5 mins :)
     
  19. DPOverLord

    DPOverLord Golden Member

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    I have this in raid 0 and magician does nto detect it either.
     
  20. aigomorla

    aigomorla Cases&Cooling Mod<br>PC Gaming Mod<br>Elite Member
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    dont R0 unless u need the space.

    Too many things are lost when you R0, like Trim, for speed you wont notice.

    Now if u R0 to double your storage space... well, i have no comment about that.


    But doing R0 for speed on a SSD, well... under most normal conditions u wont notice jack.

    Its not samsung's fault.

    If you guys dont know what Raid exactly is and what it does with SSD's.. DONT RAID.

    What happens is the ICH takes both SSD's and converts it into a logical drive.
    Then the logical drive is mounted as a physical drive in bios.
    This mount causes TRIM, and other SSD functions to NOT work, because the software would need to pass the code down though the ICH, which the ICH wont do.
    And Trim on R0's on the new intel Z87 chipset has shown more problems then gains....

    Sure u can see u have 2 SSD's, however u cant access them, you cant do anything, because they are locked in the logical drive config.
     
    #19 aigomorla, Aug 27, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013
  21. DPOverLord

    DPOverLord Golden Member

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    What about on the x79?
     
  22. Z15CAM

    Z15CAM Golden Member

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    You can mount a SSD's on Intel SATA 3 Controller either in AHCI or RAID Mode as Set in BIOS. In a RAID Mode SSD Mount where you have HDD's in RAID Array and the SSD is NOT a Member, Samsung's Magician software will NOT recognize the SSD. Samsung's Software only responds to AHCI Mounting of their SSD's. Note that TRIM is functional on SSD's mounted in RAID Mode as long as the SSD is NOT a Member of an Array.

    To check that TRIM is functioning when the SSD is mounted in RAID Mode on the Intel SATA 3 Controller, you must install the latest Intel® Rapid Storage Technology (Intel® RST) RAID Driver for the TRIM Check Tool to recognize the SSD.

    It would be interesting if TRIM does work when SSD's are Members of a RAID Array by using the TRIM Check Tool but as aigomorla points out SSD's in RAID Array loose TRIM Function.

    TRIM Check Tool can be found here: http://files.thecybershadow.net/trimcheck/
     
    #21 Z15CAM, Aug 27, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013
  23. DPOverLord

    DPOverLord Golden Member

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    Thanks, will turn off raid when I reinstlal
     
  24. aigomorla

    aigomorla Cases&Cooling Mod<br>PC Gaming Mod<br>Elite Member
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    Z87 Chipset.
    http://www.eteknix.com/intel-haswell-z87-chipset-detailed/

     
  25. tbessie

    tbessie Junior Member

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    I'm confused - you're quoting an article that says TRIM is supported in RAID, but then above you said it is not.

    Do you mean it is supposed in RAID mode, but not on members OF a RAID? Or were you changing your mind?

    - Tim
     
  26. Fernando 1

    Fernando 1 Senior member

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    You are wrong. The TRIM command passes the Intel 7-Series and 8-Series SATA RAID Controllers into any Intel RAID0 array, if the BIOS contains an Intel RAID ROM resp. Intel EFI RAID module v11.x.x.xxxx or higher and an Intel RAID driver v11.x.x.xxxx or higher is running. TRIM in RAID0 works even with older Intel Chipsets from 4-Series up, if the BIOS contains an especially modified Intel RAID ROM/SataDriver (look >here<).
    The detection of the SSD by the TRIM Check Tool has nothing to do with the version of the in-use Intel RAID driver.
    TRIM is working fine with SSDs, which are members of a RAID0 array. For details you may look >here< and >here<.