Same Lexus ES350 was reported earlier for throttle sticking...

[LTC8K6]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ipUPaJuvClbWgSCDmhVm0aZqPDAAD9CCT3TO0

A guy got this same car as a loaner a few days earlier and told the dealer that the gas pedal was sticking under the floor mat...

SAN DIEGO — A customer complained of gas-pedal problems with a dealership's loaner Lexus three days before the same car accelerated out of control and killed a California Highway Patrol officer and three family members, a report obtained Friday said.

Frank Bernard, 61, told investigators he told a receptionist at the El Cajon dealership that the gas pedal on the Lexus ES350 was sticking under the floor mat, the same problem that led to the deadly crash three days later on Aug. 28, said the report from the San Diego County Sheriff's Department.

The San Diego Union-Tribune obtained the sheriff's report through family attorneys.

Bernard said he was worried the receptionist didn't understand him and emphasized the problem.

"I think the mat caused it," Bernard remembered saying. "You need to tell someone."

The 20-year-old receptionist, Jessica Martin-Dunleavy, first told investigators she did not remember Bernard or any complaints, according to the report. In a subsequent interview she said she remembered an older couple saying the mat forced the car to accelerate and told the detail specialist on duty. The specialist said no one reported any problems to him, according to the report.

An attorney for Bob Baker Lexus El Cajon, the dealer that loaned the car to both Bernard and Saylor, declined comment when reached by the newspaper, saying he hadn't seen the report
...

 

[brblx]

still. shifter. bump it forward. you don't even have to hit a button.

stupid is as stupid dies.

 

[yh125d]

Tragedy no doubt,



But theres a great big pedal just to the left of the accelerator...

 

[brblx]

big discussion about that. cliff notes- if they're going fast enough before they hit the brakes, they'll fade out before slowing the car considerably. and apparently toyotas won't dial the throttle back if you hit the gas and brake at the same time.

 

[LTC8K6]

still. shifter. bump it forward. you don't even have to hit a button.

stupid is as stupid dies.

Sport mode and don't realize it...go ahead and bump it foward...

I think we've been all through the possibilities already. The guy should have been able to save himself, but it's pretty easy to see why he might not have been able to.

It's also pretty easy to Monday morning QB this...

 

[brblx]

Sport mode and don't realize it...go ahead and bump it foward...

I think we've been all through the possibilities already. The guy should have been able to save himself, but it's pretty easy to see why he might not have been able to.

It's also pretty easy to Monday morning QB this...

no, pushing the shifter directly forward goes into neutral. you have to actually try and push it to the left to get the automanumatic mode.

also, by 'monday morning QB,' are you implying i wouldn't be able to stop a runaway car? 'cause i'm gonna have to argue that.

 

[Bignate603]

I think a consumer is reasonable to assume that their car should not accelerate uncontrollably. We can say that he could have stopped it and if he was thinking clearly he probably could have. However, I really can't fault the guy for being a bit on the distracted side.

In any case, its pretty obvious that this was a known issue that was being ignored.

 

[yh125d]

big discussion about that. cliff notes- if they're going fast enough before they hit the brakes, they'll fade out before slowing the car considerably. and apparently toyotas won't dial the throttle back if you hit the gas and brake at the same time.

Ya see theres also this big handle in the middle next to the shifter for certain situations

 

[coxmaster]

Ya see theres also this big handle in the middle next to the shifter for certain situations

Like drifiting..

But seriously, i've driven a few cars that the "emergency brake" is actually a parking brake. Unless I wasn't moving, it wouldnt even engage. Seems worthless to me.

 

[marincounty]

I wonder how the car got to 120mph? The driver must have floored the gas pedal at some point. I don't think half throttle will get you to 120. Just sayin'.

 

[Bignate603]

I wonder how the car got to 120mph? The driver must have floored the gas pedal at some point. I don't think half throttle will get you to 120. Just sayin'.

Giving it some gas to pass another car would probably make him go past half throttle.

 

[DivideBYZero]

The 'emergency' brake is no such thing. The American term for that device is totally wrong. Pull that fucker in an emergency and you'll really have an emergency. And if, by the grace of god, you are not spinning right round, like a record baby, most hand/parking brakes will NEVER be enough to stop a car doing much over 40MPH.

And don't argue with me because I asked fleabag about this and he watched his Dad google it once.

 

[brblx]

The 'emergency' brake is no such thing. The American term for that device is totally wrong. Pull that fucker in an emergency and you'll really have an emergency. And if, by the grace of god, you are not spinning right round, like a record baby, most hand/parking brakes will NEVER be enough to stop a car doing much over 40MPH.

And don't argue with me because I asked fleabag about this and he watched his Dad google it once.

this is mostly true. manufacturers have always (within recent memory, at least) referred to it as a parking brake, and warn not to use it in an emergency braking situation.

however, in a situation where you have experienced a complete failure of the hydraulic brakes (unlikely), i'd still be using the e-brake as opposed to nothing.

 

[yh125d]

"emergency" brakes + normal brakes are without a doubt plenty to stop a freaking toyota from careening into a fiery ball of death, unless you're just stupid




Darwin award recipient

 

[geno]

I think a consumer is reasonable to assume that their car should not accelerate uncontrollably. We can say that he could have stopped it and if he was thinking clearly he probably could have. However, I really can't fault the guy for being a bit on the distracted side.

Uncontrollable isn't really applicable here, though. Pop that thing into neutral and your "uncontrollable acceleration" now becomes very controllable.

 

[jlee]

"emergency" brakes + normal brakes are without a doubt plenty to stop a freaking toyota from careening into a fiery ball of death, unless you're just stupid




Darwin award recipient

Are you familiar with the concept of brake fade?

 

[exdeath]

Given the numerous models of cars that are affected by this, and the numerous shapes and styles of both the accelerator pedal and floor mats in those cars, I'm going to postulate that the "sticky floor mat" story is a cover up for a software glitch.

 

[exdeath]

Ya see theres also this big handle in the middle next to the shifter for certain situations

All that big handle does is apply the same brake shoes/pads in the rear that your foot does, but with a secondary cable and ratchet mechanism. They are attached to the same physical brakes. Very rarely is there a separate set of shoes/pads for the parking brake, and when there are, they are very small.

If the foot brake has already failed due to a problem at the brakes themselves like brake fade (and not loss of hydraulic pressure), that handle isn't going to do anything.

Turning the key off would be the appropriate thing to do, that is assuming that after you avoid the disaster you are still concerned about the engine (power brakes will still work for a couple applications).

 

[yh125d]

Are you familiar with the concept of brake fade?

Yes, and damn near any car can do a single emergency stop from 100mph without fade becoming an issue I'd bet

 

[PricklyPete]

Sounds like this dealership is going to get a mouthful.

 

[exar333]

Turn the engine off.

/runaway car problem

 

[exdeath]

Yes, and damn near any car can do a single emergency stop from 100mph without fade becoming an issue I'd bet

Emergency stop != stopping from that speed while still WOT. Not only do the brakes have to cope with stopping 4000 lbs from 100 mph, but the full power of the engine as well.

 

[mb]

Turn the engine off.

/runaway car problem

The car had push button start. You have to hold it down for a few seconds to shut it off.

Did he even press it once? I doubt he knew he could hold it in to turn it off. Hell, most people on here were saying it's not possible until Toyota came out and said it is.

 

[LTC8K6]

Emergency stop != stopping from that speed while still WOT. Not only do the brakes have to cope with stopping 4000 lbs from 100 mph, but the full power of the engine as well.

WOT really didn't seem to make much difference in my brake testing. Granted it was only from 70 and not 120.

 

[mb]

The 'emergency' brake is no such thing. The American term for that device is totally wrong. Pull that fucker in an emergency and you'll really have an emergency. And if, by the grace of god, you are not spinning right round, like a record baby, most hand/parking brakes will NEVER be enough to stop a car doing much over 40MPH.

And don't argue with me because I asked fleabag about this and he watched his Dad google it once.

Exactly! Why do people keep calling it the emergency brake? That's not what it is! I mean, have you ever tried driving with it on? You can! It doesn't stop you when you're accelerating. Perhaps if the throttle wasn't stuck it would help, but he wouldn't have had an issue if the throttle wasn't stuck so that doesn't do any good.

Try this:
Fully engage your regular brakes and press on the gas while in gear. You don't move.
Now, let off the brakes, but engage your parking brake while stopped. You won't move. Now, press on the gas. You will start moving. The parking brake is far easier to overpower than the regular brakes.