Salary requirements...

[homercles337]

I have been looking for work for about 5 months now (tech R&D, i have a phd), and i have always read that one should never divulge "salary requirements." However, employers persist with questions like, "So, what are your salary requirements?" To which i reply, "Whatever is considered market for my qualifications." Then they ask, "So, what do you consider 'market range?'" Then i add something like, well, given the area i would imagine a range that is X% more than the national average (DC versus the national average for example). Then they ask, "Well, what do you consider to the 'market range' in area X?" WTF? Why cant they just make me an offer if they want to then go from there? Mind you, this was an HR person not a group manager. I have held academic posts for the last 5 years, so im kind of out of it. Last time i had a job offer it was for more than $50/hour, which i readily accepted.

 

[tami]

the word "negotiable" works well.

 

[sniperruff]

just make a reasonable offer.

 

[Scarpozzi]

Sometimes it's easier not to offer knowledge that you have a phd when applying for a position unless you're teaching. Most jobs believe that PHD is overkill and can give you a hard time getting in because they know they can hire the other guy for less money.

 

[mrphones]

They want to know if you are in or out of there offer range, it's really a lame practice imo.... You just have to hope your on the right end of the spectrum..

 

[DBL]

Just spit out the number. You know what you are looking for. I've seen cover letters lately which have a desired salary on them.

 

[alkemyst]

go to a place like salary.com first. Look at the figures and determine where you'd like to be...it helps if you know what others are actually making in the job in your area as well.

I have found they are usually spot on. However, many jobs have descriptions that do not line up.

Here is a sample I am going to bat on, I was hired as a 'Junior' a couple years ago, my job is a combination of the below, however; all of it is based on my judgement calls and direction since day one...I do a combination of the below (along with 2 others at my level and 1 guy that is a true junior, but making about what we make).

Sys Admin: 56,291 64,030 72,853
Systems Administrator
Installs new software releases, system upgrades, evaluates and installs patches and resolves software related problems. Performs system backups and recovery. Maintains data files and monitors system configuration to ensure data integrity. May require a bachelor's degree in a related area with at least 2 years of experience in the field or in a related area. Has knowledge of commonly-used concepts, practices, and procedures within a particular field. Relies on instructions and pre-established guidelines to perform the functions of the job. Works under immediate supervision. Primary job functions do not typically require exercising independent judgment. Typically reports to a project leader or manager

Analyst: 43,356 48,795 54,885
Applications Systems Analyst I
Reviews, analyzes, and modifies programming systems including encoding, testing, debugging and installing to support an organization's application systems. Consults with users to identify current operating procedures and to clarify program objectives. May require a bachelor's degree in a related area and 0-3 years of experience in the field or in a related area. Has knowledge of commonly-used concepts, practices, and procedures within a particular field. Relies on instructions and pre-established guidelines to perform the functions of the job. Works under immediate supervision. Primary job functions do not typically require exercising independent judgment. Typically reports to a project leader or manager

Programmer I: 44,074 49,600 55,603
Programmer I
Reviews, analyzes, and modifies programming systems including encoding, testing, debugging and documenting programs. May require an associate's degree in a related area and 0-3 years of experience in the field or in a related area. Has knowledge of commonly-used concepts, practices, and procedures within a particular field. Relies on instructions and pre-established guidelines to perform the functions of the job. Works under immediate supervision. Primary job functions do not typically require exercising independent judgment. Typically reports to a project leader or manager

Web Designer: 51,935 59,664 70,603
Web Designer
Designs and constructs web pages/sites including incorporating graphic user interface (GUI) features and other techniques. Maintains and provides ongoing design of the website, promos and ad banners, seasonal content specials and custom chat launcher design for partners. May require a bachelor's degree in a related area and 2-4 years of experience in the field or in a related area. Familiar with standard concepts, practices, and procedures within a particular field. Relies on limited experience and judgment to plan and accomplish goals. Performs a variety of tasks. Works under general supervision; typically reports to a manager. A certain degree of creativity and latitude is required

Database Analyst I: 43,374 49,482 57,424
Database Analyst I
Reviews, evaluates, designs, implements and maintains company database. Identifies data sources, constructs data decomposition diagrams, provides data flow diagrams and documents the process. Writes codes for database access, modifications, and constructions including stored procedures. May require a bachelor's degree in a related area and 0-2 years of experience in the field or in a related area. Has knowledge of commonly-used concepts, practices, and procedures within a particular field. Relies on instructions and pre-established guidelines to perform the functions of the job. Works under immediate supervision. Primary job functions do not typically require exercising independent judgment. Typically reports to a project leader or manager

Entry Level Net Engineer: 49,538 56,580 65,116
Network Engineer I
Assists in the development and maintenance of network communications. Uses knowledge of LAN/WAN systems to help design and install internal and external networks. Tests and evaluates network systems to eliminate problems and make improvements. Requires a bachelor's degree in area of specialty and 0-2 years of experience in the field or in a related area. Has knowledge of commonly-used concepts, practices, and procedures within a particular field. Relies on instructions and pre-established guidelines to perform the functions of the job. Works under immediate supervision. Typically reports to a supervisor

Sr. Help Desk Support: 44,462 50,282 58,345
Help Desk Support, Sr.
Provides support to end users on a variety of issues. Identifies, researches, and resolves technical problems. Responds to telephone calls, email and personnel requests for technical support. Documents, tracks, and monitors the problem to ensure a timely resolution. May require an associate's degree in a related area and 3-5 years of experience in the field or in a related area. Familiar with a variety of the field's concepts, practices, and procedures. Relies on experience and judgment to plan and accomplish goals. Performs a variety of complicated tasks. May lead and direct the work of others. Typically reports to a supervisor or manager. A wide degree of creativity and latitude is expected

The main thing though is job and pay aside there is what you think you are worth and what you are really worth. What you think is up to you. What you are really worth is dependent on your peers, if you do a better job than them you are worth more...if not less.

Also never let a manager/senior/boss claim you are adequately paid because everything they give you is easily solved by you. Any professional has 90% easy work I'd say...it's easy though because of their own knowledge base. Fixing a broken limb is simple for any doctor, but not many people in general.

All that said, sometimes taking a hit in pay to accept a great job is worth it in the long run. When I was younger I looked at only my wages/salary, now I look at not only my wages/salary, but benefits...esp retirement and investment options.

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: mrphones
They want to know if you are in or out of there offer range, it's really a lame practice imo.... You just have to hope your on the right end of the spectrum..

Exaclty, lame practice. This is a new area in which im not directly degreed, but i am trained via postdoctoral posts. So i tend to hit low numbers. Normally someone in my position (with the proper degrees) would probably hit the $90-120K (phd in the field, 0-3 years experience) range while i head for the $60-85k range (BS/MS in the field, 0-2 years). But if i COULD hit that higher range i'd be a fool not to.

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
go to a place like salary.com first. Look at the figures and determine where you'd like to be...it helps if you know what others are actually making in the job in your area as well.

I have found they are usually spot on. However, many jobs have descriptions that do not line up.

Why is everything at that site Gaussian? Do distributions of salaries always follow a gaussian model or something. Im not an econ guy so forgive my ignorance. Showing a real distribution with a fit from some model would be much more useful.

 

[DCFife]

The last potential employers I've dealt with (just within the last week or two) I've responded with "negotiable" or sometimes they will even come out and say "this position is going to pay $78k to $83k...is that in your range?"

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: homercles337

Originally posted by: alkemyst
go to a place like salary.com first. Look at the figures and determine where you'd like to be...it helps if you know what others are actually making in the job in your area as well.

I have found they are usually spot on. However, many jobs have descriptions that do not line up.

Why is everything at that site Gaussian? Do distributions of salaries always follow a gaussian model or something. Im not an econ guy so forgive my ignorance. Showing a real distribution with a fit from some model would be much more useful.

What are you talking about....salaries are Gaussian by nature. You have a bell shaped curve for basic jobs.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I would just tell them that you're worth more than they can afford and leave it at that.

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: homercles337However, employers persist with questions like, "So, what are your salary requirements?"

Answer the question with a question. Get THEIR range, don't give them yours. They are the ones offering the job...

A: I am prepared to accept market range for the position, what is the range of salries you are prepared to offer?

If then answer your question, maybe you can answer theirs. Negotiations have begin.

If they can't answer your question, they aren't setting the salary and they aren't the person to negotiate with (like an HR manager).

edit: note in my answer above, I didn't lock the employeer into a set amount (which they may see as an offer), just a range.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Phoenix86

Originally posted by: homercles337However, employers persist with questions like, "So, what are your salary requirements?"

Answer the question with a question. Get THEIR range, don't give them yours. They are the ones offering the job...

A: I am prepared to accept market range for the position, what is the range of salries you are prepared to offer?

If then answer your question, maybe you can answer theirs. Negotiations have begin.

If they can't answer your question, they aren't setting the salary and they aren't the person to negotiate with (like an HR manager).

edit: note in my answer above, I didn't lock the employeer into a set amount (which they may see as an offer), just a range.

Exactly. The only response to this is "Neither of us has a salary in mind...we had a nice interview, I think I meet your expectations...send me your offer, I will consider it."

Be honest in this. If it's not the job for you say that too.

Make sure you know the market value though for your position always. Management wants the most work for the least price.

 

[Britboy]

NEVER EVER be the one to provide the first number. Make them do it, no matter how hard they push on you to come up with one. Once they offer you the job and give you a number you can start negotiating.

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: Britboy
NEVER EVER be the one to provide the first number. Make them do it, no matter how hard they push on you to come up with one. Once they offer you the job and give you a number you can start negotiating.

I wouldn't say never, just make sure you are talking to the person with authority to make it happen.

In that case, aim high, negotiate down. Any reasonable manager will expect this. You won't lose the job at that point in the process because you are +15% out of their range either. Now if you're +30%, well maybe, but then again you aren't likely to accep -30% of the first number either.

If the manager isn't reasonable you probably saved yourself a lot of headache in dealing with the manager's BS down the road.

Remember, an interview is a two-way process.

edit: I have landed a couple of jobs (including my current position) with making the first offer. Not once has the manager said "OK" to the first number either. Know what you are worth and what you are willing to accept as pay. Afterall, you really-really do have a range you will work for too.

 

[gotsmack]

Originally posted by: homercles337

Originally posted by: mrphones
They want to know if you are in or out of there offer range, it's really a lame practice imo.... You just have to hope your on the right end of the spectrum..

Exaclty, lame practice. This is a new area in which im not directly degreed, but i am trained via postdoctoral posts. So i tend to hit low numbers. Normally someone in my position (with the proper degrees) would probably hit the $90-120K (phd in the field, 0-3 years experience) range while i head for the $60-85k range (BS/MS in the field, 0-2 years). But if i COULD hit that higher range i'd be a fool not to.

Well, you know you would most likely hit the $90K range. Just tell them about $90K but the actual number depends on many other factors such as...

you will have to make up your own but the usual list contains
1. Health benefits
2. Vacation and personal days
3. flexibility of the job
4. Advancement opportunities and exposure to new areas of interet