Safe vcore limited by heat?

[aznxk3vi17]

So far, my E6600 has gotten easily to 3.55GHz on air with the Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme. I have also had some quality issues with this cooler as many have, but after reseating it a few times, my Orthos Blend temperatures never spike past 56C, which is acceptable for me.

Currently, my vcore is at 1.5 (1.45ish after vdroop). My temps are perfect in my opinion. Would it be safe to increase my vcore for a higher overclock (so I can reach that lofty 3.6)? Or are there other disadvantages to increasing vcore other than heat? If I can keep the temps down, would that offset the decreasing of life expectancy?

 

[gramboh]

I'd say go for it. Your temps are low enough to try it and while running high Vcore may reduce CPU life a few years, your E6600 isn't going to be worth much money when Q6600's are selling for $266 in a few months (this is the way I look at it). So unless you want to run the CPU for 5+ years, why not push it a bit.

BTW what week/batch is your chip? That is an impressive overclock, I can only do 3.4 at 1.47V (after vdroop).

 

[aznxk3vi17]

I'll check when I get home, I never looked. I haven't checked for 24 hour stability yet (I'm too impatient, if Orthos is still running after I wake up, I am good to go), but you make a good point. With the Q6600 coming out soon and cheaply, I may just push this hard. Once the Q6600 or other similar quad becomes cheap, I'll simply replace it. I don't think I'm quite ready for the move to DDR3 anyway.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: aznxk3vi17
So far, my E6600 has gotten easily to 3.55GHz on air with the Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme. I have also had some quality issues with this cooler as many have, but after reseating it a few times, my Orthos Blend temperatures never spike past 56C, which is acceptable for me.

Currently, my vcore is at 1.5 (1.45ish after vdroop). My temps are perfect in my opinion. Would it be safe to increase my vcore for a higher overclock (so I can reach that lofty 3.6)? Or are there other disadvantages to increasing vcore other than heat? If I can keep the temps down, would that offset the decreasing of life expectancy?

WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY TOO MUCH VCORE for AIR.

Sorry the MAX you should push your chip on AIR for long periods of time should be no more then 1.45Vcore REAL.

IF you have the 680i boards, then vcore is really off thanks to vdroop so that = 1.55V around. But that is still uber dangerous on AIR.

Im assumming your load temps on coretemp program is 58C? If your seeign BIOS or your GIGAbyte utility as 58C, IRL your coretemp will be around 70C. A bit too hot for that chip to be running full more then serveral hours at a time.

Originally posted by: aznxk3vi17
I'll check when I get home, I never looked. I haven't checked for 24 hour stability yet (I'm too impatient, if Orthos is still running after I wake up, I am good to go), but you make a good point. With the Q6600 coming out soon and cheaply, I may just push this hard. Once the Q6600 or other similar quad becomes cheap, I'll simply replace it. I don't think I'm quite ready for the move to DDR3 anyway.

Your dreaming if you think you can push a quad hard on air. I wish you the best of luck, these guys are monsters. And yes i own one, and yes i have the TOP TIER in watercooling now. There that much of a heat monster.

On a Ultra, dont expect higher then 1.4Vcore real. You'll load in the middle to upper 70's on coretemp on a Quad.

Lastly, i can only think of 1 person who has a quad @ 3.6 on air 24/7. But its kept otuside the case, and he has a tuniq tower with a uber fast fan.

Also this same person, whose name is DDTung over at xs systems, says the tuniq is better then the ultra for quad core. I would consider DDtung a mentor when it comes to quads for me.

 

[nealh]

aigomorla...why are you saying 1.5v on air is bad

Increased vcore is an issue no matter what cooling is used..waqter and phase tend to maintain lower temps which may reduce the "damage" from the increased vcore so it can be applied longer

bottom line is increased vcore and heat shorten a cpu's lfe...water cooling is no safer than air if temps were equal(this assumes that temp readings are accurate)

problem is air can not maintain temps as low as water ....I think the key issue is the delta change not the temp readings....

there are chips that seem to run cooler at idle but load a higher delta on air
eg I have L47G...on air Ultra 120 E...idle temps are 33C load temps hit 60c w/1.5v(vdroops 1.48)
I have a L628A on water..idle at 40-42..load at 58C..vcore of 1.5v(droop is almost 0)...so water has better delta with higher sustained vcore

so air delta is 27C..water delta is 16-18C (dont forget ambients play an important role here)

No one has shown me watercooling if temps are equal reduces risk to the cpu

 

[aznxk3vi17]

I don't believe you.

For several reasons. One, your typing. Second, you didn't read my post carefully at all. Third, I checked the temps with various sources. Fourth, under almost no circumstances will anybody reach the load that Orthos Blend puts on a CPU. While playing games, I never break 45C (slightly higher if the air conditioning isn't on, but I still don't break 50).

Thanks for the input, though.

Originally posted by: aigomorla
WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY TOO MUCH VCORE for AIR.

Sorry the MAX you should push your chip on AIR for long periods of time should be no more then 1.45Vcore REAL.

IF you have the 680i boards, then vcore is really off thanks to vdroop so that = 1.55V around. But that is still uber dangerous on AIR.

Im assumming your load temps on coretemp program is 58C? If your seeign BIOS or your GIGAbyte utility as 58C, IRL your coretemp will be around 70C. A bit too hot for that chip to be running full more then serveral hours at a time.

Originally posted by: aznxk3vi17
I'll check when I get home, I never looked. I haven't checked for 24 hour stability yet (I'm too impatient, if Orthos is still running after I wake up, I am good to go), but you make a good point. With the Q6600 coming out soon and cheaply, I may just push this hard. Once the Q6600 or other similar quad becomes cheap, I'll simply replace it. I don't think I'm quite ready for the move to DDR3 anyway.

Your dreaming if you think you can push a quad hard on air. I wish you the best of luck, these guys are monsters. And yes i own one, and yes i have the TOP TIER in watercooling now. There that much of a heat monster.

On a Ultra, dont expect higher then 1.4Vcore real. You'll load in the middle to upper 70's on coretemp on a Quad.

Lastly, i can only think of 1 person who has a quad @ 3.6 on air 24/7. But its kept otuside the case, and he has a tuniq tower with a uber fast fan.

Also this same person, whose name is DDTung over at xs systems, says the tuniq is better then the ultra for quad core. I would consider DDtung a mentor when it comes to quads for me.

 

[Noubourne]

Yeah well I ran a Venice 3000+ at 1.58 Vcore real for almost 2 years and never had a hint of stability issues. A measly Zalman 7000+ kept her just barely below 60C (at which temp it would start to throw errors in stress tests).

So the never use more than 1.5Vcore rule on air is just a stupid rule. Like most "never" rules are.

You have good temps at ultra load. I say push on. With care, but it sounds like you are exercising caution so go for it.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: aznxk3vi17
I don't believe you.

For several reasons. One, your typing. Second, you didn't read my post carefully at all. Third, I checked the temps with various sources. Fourth, under almost no circumstances will anybody reach the load that Orthos Blend puts on a CPU. While playing games, I never break 45C (slightly higher if the air conditioning isn't on, but I still don't break 50).

Thanks for the input, though.

Good luck, then. BTW, how well do you think that your current heatsink would cool your E6600, if you were to cut it in half, right down the middle? That's exactly how well it will perform, when trying to cool a Q6600.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Noubourne
Yeah well I ran a Venice 3000+ at 1.58 Vcore real for almost 2 years and never had a hint of stability issues. A measly Zalman 7000+ kept her just barely below 60C (at which temp it would start to throw errors in stress tests).

So the never use more than 1.5Vcore rule on air is just a stupid rule. Like most "never" rules are.

You have good temps at ultra load. I say push on. With care, but it sounds like you are exercising caution so go for it.

a enginer over at intel theorized, every 10C you drop your CPU temp overall, you effectively double the life of your CPU.

I dont know if i can find that link anymore, but im possitive i posted this somewhere in this forum.

Also, neal, your wrong. If that was the case, why did my AMD scale up to 2.8ghz on stock voltage when it was dropped to negitve load temps? You dont overclock a sub ambient system like you do with water. You dont push the cpu at max voltage and then see how far she goes.

You race a sub ambient system. So you cant throw in phase. If you dont believe me, contact OPPainter over at XS forums. This is the info i got from him on sub ambient cooling.


Lastly, heat is the worst enemy in overclocking. I dont mean to push off being an ass, but you push your chip too hard, its not just the chip you burn out. You will overheat your NB from the high fsb requirements, as well as tons of other issues. IF you dont believe me, look at the tons of threads where people LOSE there overclock after time.

I believe this is because the NB is overheating after time. And eventually it just doesnt want to be ran at that spec.

And also i have no problems bringing my quad down sub 60. In fact at night she drops down as far as sub 50 on a 100% WCG load.

And lastly, IF YOU DONT HAVE A QUADCORE PLEASE DONT CONTRIBUTE about them. Im tired of all the myths about quadcores. There uber hot because there 2 C2D's stamped together on 1 pcb. They put out almost 2x the heat, and overclocking is NOT simple on these guys. There very picky with boards, and settings.

So IF you dont have have a quadcore, DONT PASS rumors. Im tired of noobies thinking they can scale a Quad to 3.4ghz+ on air. Your temps will skyrocket to 80C @ 1.45Vcore + on load. And that IS UBER hot.

My TOP TIER Water cooling setup

Thats usually close to what it takes to push a quad to its limits without jumping into sub ambient. So unless your yoxxy, or duvie, or mark OR a Quadcore OWNER. Dont argue with me on quadcores. You seriously dont know what your getting into.

 

[aznxk3vi17]

Simple solution:

I'm not overclocking a Quad.

kthxbye

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: aznxk3vi17
Simple solution:

I'm not overclocking a Quad.

kthxbye

heh smart move op. then the next thing is, temps.

you never answered my question. Which temp program you using? core temp? or the boards program monitor.

 

[aznxk3vi17]

I ignore BIOS readings. I have used the NVIDIA monitoring tool and Intel TAT. I will get Core Temp when I get home today. TAT generally showed LOWER temps than the NVIDIA tool.

 

[aznxk3vi17]

I just got Core Temp. At 3.6GHz, I am at 53C in Orthos. However, when Windows started, I got a Windows Defender Failed to Initialize 0x800106ba error.

 

[nealh]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: Noubourne
Yeah well I ran a Venice 3000+ at 1.58 Vcore real for almost 2 years and never had a hint of stability issues. A measly Zalman 7000+ kept her just barely below 60C (at which temp it would start to throw errors in stress tests).

So the never use more than 1.5Vcore rule on air is just a stupid rule. Like most "never" rules are.

You have good temps at ultra load. I say push on. With care, but it sounds like you are exercising caution so go for it.

a enginer over at intel theorized, every 10C you drop your CPU temp overall, you effectively double the life of your CPU.

I dont know if i can find that link anymore, but im possitive i posted this somewhere in this forum.

Also, neal, your wrong. If that was the case, why did my AMD scale up to 2.8ghz on stock voltage when it was dropped to negitve load temps? You dont overclock a sub ambient system like you do with water. You dont push the cpu at max voltage and then see how far she goes.

You race a sub ambient system. So you cant throw in phase. If you dont believe me, contact OPPainter over at XS forums. This is the info i got from him on sub ambient cooling.


Lastly, heat is the worst enemy in overclocking. I dont mean to push off being an ass, but you push your chip too hard, its not just the chip you burn out. You will overheat your NB from the high fsb requirements, as well as tons of other issues. IF you dont believe me, look at the tons of threads where people LOSE there overclock after time.

I believe this is because the NB is overheating after time. And eventually it just doesnt want to be ran at that spec.

And also i have no problems bringing my quad down sub 60. In fact at night she drops down as far as sub 50 on a 100% WCG load.

And lastly, IF YOU DONT HAVE A QUADCORE PLEASE DONT CONTRIBUTE about them. Im tired of all the myths about quadcores. There uber hot because there 2 C2D's stamped together on 1 pcb. They put out almost 2x the heat, and overclocking is NOT simple on these guys. There very picky with boards, and settings.

So IF you dont have have a quadcore, DONT PASS rumors. Im tired of noobies thinking they can scale a Quad to 3.4ghz+ on air. Your temps will skyrocket to 80C @ 1.45Vcore + on load. And that IS UBER hot.

My TOP TIER Water cooling setup

Thats usually close to what it takes to push a quad to its limits without jumping into sub ambient. So unless your yoxxy, or duvie, or mark OR a Quadcore OWNER. Dont argue with me on quadcores. You seriously dont know what your getting into.

Wingznut..I think he was the one who had some excellent posts on vcore/heat and cpu life
cant find his posts right now

I am sorry nothing you have said changes my comments..if temps are the same at the same vcore on air/water..the cpu life is not going to change

IF is the key word...now water will allow more vocroe and keep temps better..but this may still shorten cpu life

Heat and voltage shorten life...they are not independent...and together increased heat and voltage have a larger detriemental affect...

the idea behind better cooling is to reduce the effect of heat and I imagine subambients temps..ie phase...can slow voltage issues

I agree 100% voltages that are increased and the subsequent affects all components..which is why many have suggested the C2D that are degrading maybe ram or mobo degrading and dying and not necessarily the cpu...

But all you said is I was wrong..all I am trying to do is create a discussion..if I am mistaken, education is a good thing..maybe I am missing your point..not sure

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: nealh

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: Noubourne
Yeah well I ran a Venice 3000+ at 1.58 Vcore real for almost 2 years and never had a hint of stability issues. A measly Zalman 7000+ kept her just barely below 60C (at which temp it would start to throw errors in stress tests).

So the never use more than 1.5Vcore rule on air is just a stupid rule. Like most "never" rules are.

You have good temps at ultra load. I say push on. With care, but it sounds like you are exercising caution so go for it.

a enginer over at intel theorized, every 10C you drop your CPU temp overall, you effectively double the life of your CPU.

I dont know if i can find that link anymore, but im possitive i posted this somewhere in this forum.

Also, neal, your wrong. If that was the case, why did my AMD scale up to 2.8ghz on stock voltage when it was dropped to negitve load temps? You dont overclock a sub ambient system like you do with water. You dont push the cpu at max voltage and then see how far she goes.

You race a sub ambient system. So you cant throw in phase. If you dont believe me, contact OPPainter over at XS forums. This is the info i got from him on sub ambient cooling.


Lastly, heat is the worst enemy in overclocking. I dont mean to push off being an ass, but you push your chip too hard, its not just the chip you burn out. You will overheat your NB from the high fsb requirements, as well as tons of other issues. IF you dont believe me, look at the tons of threads where people LOSE there overclock after time.

I believe this is because the NB is overheating after time. And eventually it just doesnt want to be ran at that spec.

And also i have no problems bringing my quad down sub 60. In fact at night she drops down as far as sub 50 on a 100% WCG load.

And lastly, IF YOU DONT HAVE A QUADCORE PLEASE DONT CONTRIBUTE about them. Im tired of all the myths about quadcores. There uber hot because there 2 C2D's stamped together on 1 pcb. They put out almost 2x the heat, and overclocking is NOT simple on these guys. There very picky with boards, and settings.

So IF you dont have have a quadcore, DONT PASS rumors. Im tired of noobies thinking they can scale a Quad to 3.4ghz+ on air. Your temps will skyrocket to 80C @ 1.45Vcore + on load. And that IS UBER hot.

My TOP TIER Water cooling setup

Thats usually close to what it takes to push a quad to its limits without jumping into sub ambient. So unless your yoxxy, or duvie, or mark OR a Quadcore OWNER. Dont argue with me on quadcores. You seriously dont know what your getting into.

Wingznut..I think he was the one who had some excellent posts on vcore/heat and cpu life
cant find his posts right now

I am sorry nothing you have said changes my comments..if temps are the same at the same vcore on air/water..the cpu life is not going to change

IF is the key word...now water will allow more vocroe and keep temps better..but this may still shorten cpu life

Heat and voltage shorten life...they are not independent...and together increased heat and voltage have a larger detriemental affect...

the idea behind better cooling is to reduce the effect of heat and I imagine subambients temps..ie phase...can slow voltage issues

I agree 100% voltages that are increased and the subsequent affects all components..which is why many have suggested the C2D that are degrading maybe ram or mobo degrading and dying and not necessarily the cpu...

But all you said is I was wrong..all I am trying to do is create a discussion..if I am mistaken, education is a good thing..maybe I am missing your point..not sure

uhhh.. neal i agree with most of your statements. However, the point you drew was air can match water.

Im asking how? air cant pull of what some water setups can. True given if you had the same budget, then air would be greater then water. I cant think of many kits that cost 59 dollars that can cool as well as a ultra120.

Also, yes my point was sub ambient cooling overclocking was brought up by oppainter. I was actually about to jump into phase myself, but i WCG 24/7. I cant think of a phase unit that could keep up with a quadcore at that setting, for 24/7. Nol or even my local builder jinu, who lives like 50 min away, would easily charge an arm and a leg to tune it for quadcore.

Your correct on this statement and i agree with you 100% voltage and heat are 2 different values. However when together, they would act exponentially. Your trying to reduce one side of the multiplication side. Which is heat.

Ummm also, i never take what you say as offensive, and if you have some valid points on quadcore overclocking, and overclocking in general, then i am all ears.

However, i want to say with about 80% surity, i have the highest overclocked quadcore on this thread. Also i have the highest overclocked E6600 on this thread.

So those are my qualifications on this topic. Anyone else want to post a 3.75ghz+ C2D i'll be more then happy to listen.

E6600 @ 3.75
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/aigomorla/3-1.jpg

X3220 Quadcore @ 3.375
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/aigomorla/X3220.jpg


Edit on the stress program. Its bionic WCG. It stresses the cpu @ 100% on all 4 cores. I cant get orthos to play nicely on all 4 cores. Better statement is i dont know how to load up all 4 cores. But WCG is suposed to be = to orthos on blend.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
...I was actually about to jump into phase myself, but i WCG 24/7. I cant think of a phase unit that could keep up with a quadcore at that setting, for 24/7. Nol or even my local builder jinu, who lives like 50 min away, would easily charge an arm and a leg to tune it for quadcore.

I have zero desire to wade into the depths of the dialogue going on in this thread but I thought I'd add a data point on this specific note...I have my QX6700 at 3.73 GHz on consumer phase setup (Vapochill LS) and it runs all 4 cores 100% loaded 24x7 for past 6 months. (market data analysis stuff for my business)

Just saying it is possible to put phase on a fully-loaded and well overclocked quad-core...I have no inputs to make regarding the remaining contents of this thread. Whether this makes me the luckiest recipient of the world's easiest overclockable quad-core is up to the experts to decide.

 

[nealh]

aigomorla


you missed my point ..

I said assuming temps are the same between air and water..at same vcore(doubtful this would be possible)..watercooling is going to be no more "protective" to the cpu becoaming "damaged"

If temps are ok there is no reason to you can push vcore..the problem is as you push vcore the air cooling becomes less effective to maintain temps under loaded conditions with C2D..and forget quad...

keep the temps down helps reduce the effects of increased vcore but will not guarantee no damage

Also amy of the C2D have very different idle temps and temp responses to vcore
L47G runs cooler than my L628A266 at idle....load temps do not get as high but I would still worry in theory about heat on air with my L47G because the delta is larger vs what It would with watercooling

also you can not really compare temps between systems and ambients vary

 

[aznxk3vi17]

Anyway, I don't wanna fuel anymore fires. I found that my CPU, while it can boot into Windows easily at 3.6GHz (and possibly higher), no matter how much vcore I put into it (I stopped at 1.55), it doesn't want to be stable. Plus, the Orthos Blend temps were getting close to 60. I would like to stay sub-60C. Currently I am at 3.575GHz @ 1.5250V with Orthos Blend temps of max 58. I think I'll stop there, get to work on the RAM next.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: aznxk3vi17
Anyway, I don't wanna fuel anymore fires. I found that my CPU, while it can boot into Windows easily at 3.6GHz (and possibly higher), no matter how much vcore I put into it (I stopped at 1.55), it doesn't want to be stable. Plus, the Orthos Blend temps were getting close to 60. I would like to stay sub-60C. Currently I am at 3.575GHz @ 1.5250V with Orthos Blend temps of max 58. I think I'll stop there, get to work on the RAM next.

nvidia bios temp is very inaccurate, to core temp:

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/aigomorla/ApogeeGTX.jpg


@neal, i appologize i think i understood you wrong.

@idontcare : you are one lucky guy to be running that on a Vapochill LS. If i was to do that, i think DDT, NOL, and Serialkiller would most likely come over and confescate my rig because im abusing it. Or they would wait and see it burn out after 1 yr, and then laugh at me. :[

You might need to recharge the unit very soon. Quads burning out phase units, and overshooting tec's at those clocks are quite common the phase forum over at XS.

 

[nealh]

@neal, i appologize i think i understood you wrong.

for what a healthy and informative discussion.....