Sacred 2 - Copy Protection Revealed

[mindcycle]

* 1 box, 1 license
* The license can be used online to play on our servers at no charge for the license owner
* You can install Sacred2 on a 1000 PC´s but playing at the same time = 2x. This can be your Desktop and your notebook.
* 2 can be played via LAN with one license
* 2 can play SP
* Unlimited installations, 2 activations parallel. Activations can be revoked through multiple channels (online-auto, online tools, offline). Revoke & re-activate can be done an unlimited number of times but limited per day to avoid abuse. It has to be a fair trade.
* One PC component can be replaced without problems. Beyond that revoke & re-activate is the recommended procedure.
* Putting up the internet a Serial code to abuse the key ad revoke tool will not work.
* There will be a worldwide email hotline for DRM issues due to failed hardware, etc. The manual page with the key serves as proof of purchase.
* The service at Securom will be available 365 days a year, 24 hours per day.
* Ascaron hotline during biz hours for standard phone rates. (Germany only)
* Internet connection is needed during installation. The FAQ explains you can use a friend's PC for manual activation though.
* You can play without the DVD. It´s not needed in the drive.
* No private data will be transfered during the activation process. You cannot even enter critical data.
* The activation servers will be available for the next couple of years. Should this no longer be the case, the DRM will be patched out.
* The whole activation process takes less than 10 seconds and runs in the background after typing in the serial code.
* Sacred2 license is transferable. The EULA doesnt say no to it because its the right to sell what you bought before.

Here's a link to the post on RPGWatch: http://www.rpgwatch.com/#10223

It seems a little less restrictive than the SecuROM variation currently being used by EA, since they include a revoke tool and two licenses, but I still think it's the wrong move. It sounds like their main objective is trying to kill the secondary/used market and stop disc swapping. Basically force anyone who wants the game to buy a brand new copy.

**Update - looks like SecuROM it is now confirmed for the international versions of the game and not just Germany any longer.

A message from the developer about the DRM: http://forum.sacredeng.ascaron...hp?p=434370#post434370

**Update 2 - The publisher (fearing the negative press no doubt) updated and clarified the bullet points of the copy protection. I changed them on this thread to reflect what is currently out there now. http://www.rpgwatch.com/#10245

 

[Nightmare225]

What EA needs is a revoke tool. I bet at least 50% of complaints would stop.

 

[MustISO]

I'm glad they posted this info and it seems reasonable to me.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: Nightmare225
What EA needs is a revoke tool. I bet at least 50% of complaints would stop.

As far as I can tell, SecuROM is meant to stop used games (since it is so ineffective against pirates), so I doubt that they will ever have a revoke tool / refund when uninstalled.

 

[raystorm]

So its not transferrable? Its like you are renting the game. You can't sell it because of that restriction and I bet it gets cracked day 1.

No thanks.

 

[mindcycle]

I'm sure continued SecuROM development will try to stop all forms of piracy (a losing battle), but I do agree that they are focusing way more energy into killing the used market at this point.

So the great idea these publishers came up with is screwing over their paying customers by requiring them to buy the game brand new and then not allowing them the ability to sell it. They know full well at this point the games will eventually be cracked, so to increase sales they're going to suck every last penny out of the people actually willing to support them, the ones actually buying the game. The only thing I see happening here is more people resorting to piracy..

It makes sense that you can't sell a game or transfer your license if you downloaded it via a service like Steam.. but the solution is to setup a service like Steam, not tack on ridiculous invasive DRM to physical copies. I still like to buy physical copies of games so I can get a manual. I do also sell games occasionally. I agree with raystorm, it's exactly like renting a game except you have to pay $50 instead of like 5$ or whatever.

I really, really, hope publishing companies like Stardock start making loads of money by treating their paying customers with respect and every publisher using this new SecuROM variation loses lots of money. I've already made up my mind. I won't be buying any game that uses SecuROM, unless it drastically changes. I may miss out on some good titles, but if more people start voting with their wallets we can do to SecuROM what we did to Starforce a few years back.

 

[Piuc2020]

I think Spore's outrageously low scores on Amazon are a sign that a LOT of people are starting to get pissed by DRM, something so shocking on a title this big on one of the biggest sites is sure to raise some questions as to whether DRM is really the right decision.

Stardock's Sins of a Solar Empire is a great role model to follow, as far as I know, SoaSE sold a LOT (like more than 1 million) and it offered nothing but benefits and incentives for the paying customer, that should be the spirit of every release.

What really ticks me off is how pirates get the better game experience, they don't need to activate and they don't need to keep annoying DVDs on their drives or anything when they install the games, Sins at least gave paying customers updates and content packs.

I think eventually the industry will realize this, otherwise we might be facing a crash similar to that of 1984.

Another thing I particularly don't like is the dumbing down of gaming in general, Wii, Spore, it's all getting a little too scary to be honest, even guys like Will Wright who I thought made games for the love of creating games admitted to intentionally dumbing down Spore to increase sales (I think his exact words were that he preferred regular scores and sells like The Sims rather than outstanding scores and the sales of something like Half Life 2)

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
I think Spore's outrageously low scores on Amazon are a sign that a LOT of people are starting to get pissed by DRM, something so shocking on a title this big on one of the biggest sites is sure to raise some questions as to whether DRM is really the right decision.

Stardock's Sins of a Solar Empire is a great role model to follow, as far as I know, SoaSE sold a LOT (like more than 1 million) and it offered nothing but benefits and incentives for the paying customer, that should be the spirit of every release.

What really ticks me off is how pirates get the better game experience, they don't need to activate and they don't need to keep annoying DVDs on their drives or anything when they install the games, Sins at least gave paying customers updates and content packs.

I think eventually the industry will realize this, otherwise we might be facing a crash similar to that of 1984.

Another thing I particularly don't like is the dumbing down of gaming in general, Wii, Spore, it's all getting a little too scary to be honest, even guys like Will Wright who I thought made games for the love of creating games admitted to intentionally dumbing down Spore to increase sales (I think his exact words were that he preferred regular scores and sells like The Sims rather than outstanding scores and the sales of something like Half Life 2)

I've heard the game is pretty crappy compared to the hype. that might be more of a reason than DRM.

 

[coloumb]

Originally posted by: mindcycle

- 1 box, 2 licenses

- Internet connection is needed during installation. The FAQ explains you can use a friend's PC for manual activation though.

The game has a single-player mode if I'm not mistaken.

So.. [taking the example from the Stardock interview] - what happens if someone wants to play this game and can't install it because he/she doesn't have an Internet connection [ie: one of our war heroes over in Iraq who wants to play this game]?

 

[mindcycle]

**Update - looks like SecuROM it is now confirmed for the international versions of the game and not just Germany any longer.

A message from the developer about the DRM: http://forum.sacredeng.ascaron...hp?p=434370#post434370

 

[mindcycle]

**Update 2 - The publisher (fearing the negative press no doubt) updated and clarified the bullet points of the copy protection. I changed them on this thread to reflect what is currently out there now. http://www.rpgwatch.com/#10245

It sounds a lot better than what EA is currently doing with SecuROM but I still don't like it. One major point they clarified was that you could transfer the license, so theoretically, selling the game will be possible. I just wonder what that process will be like..

What do you guys think?

 

[Borealis7]

this sounds very reasonable to me and i loved the first one so waiting for reviews!

 

[bullbert]

Originally posted by: Nightmare225
What EA needs is a revoke tool. I bet at least 50% of complaints would stop.

What EA needs is a Clue. I bet at least 99.996% of complaints would stop.

Originally posted by: raystorm
So its not transferrable? Its like you are renting the game. You can't sell it because of that restriction...

EXACTLY!!! Welcome to the Brave New World of the 2010s, where software SALES is nothing but a dream, and software LIMITED LICENSING (aka rentals) is the norm.

We will all be pining for the "good old days" of the 2000s, even though we still had to download gigabytes over several revisions of patches over several months before our retail box version would function. Jeez, even some console games don't run out-of-the-box, and require some sort of Live(tm) connection to download patches.

 

[Raduque]

Finally, an implimentation of SecuROM that doesn't annoy me. Of course, I wasn't annoyed by Mass Effects, either and I enjoy not having the disk in.

Originally posted by: mindcycle

It sounds a lot better than what EA is currently doing with SecuROM but I still don't like it. One major point they clarified was that you could transfer the license, so theoretically, selling the game will be possible. I just wonder what that process will be like..

What do you guys think?

You revoke the activation(s), sell the game, and the person who buys it activates it. Seems simple enough to me.

Honestly though, why do people sell games? You buy a game for $50, sell it for $5 and you're out both $45 AND your product - where's the sense?!

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: Raduque
Finally, an implimentation of SecuROM that doesn't annoy me. Of course, I wasn't annoyed by Mass Effects, either and I enjoy not having the disk in.

Originally posted by: mindcycle

It sounds a lot better than what EA is currently doing with SecuROM but I still don't like it. One major point they clarified was that you could transfer the license, so theoretically, selling the game will be possible. I just wonder what that process will be like..

What do you guys think?

You revoke the activation(s), sell the game, and the person who buys it activates it. Seems simple enough to me.

Honestly though, why do people sell games? You buy a game for $50, sell it for $5 and you're out both $45 AND your product - where's the sense?!

If it's that easy then i'll be happy as well. We'll see..

I've actually sold games for about half or more of what I paid for them. Plus, it's nice to be able to pick up an older game on ebay or something like that for cheap. Not be forced to buy a new copy where the price is controller by the publisher.

IMO, it's like buying anything else. Like a DVD drive or LCD monitor for instance. Sure, they're going to go down in value over time, but when I no longer have any use for them it's nice to know I can sell them. Maybe make back a little bit of money to go towards something new. If i'm actually purchasing a physical copy of a game I would like to have that same option. If I can't sell the game isn't it just a long term rental? That's what's happening when you buy Mass Effect or Spore for example..

If Sacred 2 is as easy as just revoking the license and then you're ok to sell it, then I think we have a winner (at least where SecuROM is involved). I still don't like the fact that you need to activate online to play the single player game. If I buy the game I shouldn't have to do that.

 

[Raduque]

I guess I just don't understand it, because I never sell anything unless it's broken or taking up space.