S/A: "AMD outs bulldozer based orochi die"

[cbn]

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/09/01/amd-outs-bulldozer-based-orochi-die/

 

[Edrick]

Wasn't that determined to not be the real die shot?

(Reading on XS forums)

 

[ModestGamer]

if thats a die shot of a real BD core. to me it looks very well organized whereas when I usually see dies shots they look kinda sloppy as far as architecture goes. I don't see any shaders and it looks nothing like the current stuff they are building.

 

[bryanW1995]

jfamd commented on it earlier, their partner wanted something to show at the event, amd wouldn't release an actual die shot, so they dr'd it.

 

[Idontcare]

Yep, its showcasing the fact that glofo is doing stuff at 32nm for their customers, not meant to showcase anything for AMD.

 

[cbn]

Wasn't that determined to not be the real die shot?

(Reading on XS forums)

Oops, next time I will be more careful.

 

[IntelUser2000]

The basic layout might be correct. They might have fudged the details to add ambiguity to how big the actual die might be, but I doubt the changes are something unrecognizable.

Even having a clear picture of the die, it can be often 5-10% wrong because the measurement was off by mere few pixels. The upper and the lower cores have different dimension. Unless they plan to really do that(for example have the FPU on the upper core and make the lower core share it), the reason is probably due to editing.

 

[ModestGamer]

The basic layout might be correct. They might have fudged the details to add ambiguity to how big the actual die might be, but I doubt the changes are something unrecognizable.

Even having a clear picture of the die, it can be often 5-10% wrong because the measurement was off by mere few pixels. The upper and the lower cores have different dimension. Unless they plan to really do that(for example have the FPU on the upper core and make the lower core share it), the reason is probably due to editing.

I just read JFAMD comments on semiaccurate and he pretty much siad the photo is very molested to not give away to much info. I wonder if they did this to panic intel a bit ?? Its not like AMD to keep this kind of stuff so close to the chest.

What exactly are they cooking.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=258406&page=3

JF commented on page 2. I think AMD is amusing itself with all this free talk/advertising about the new architecture. They sure are rilling up the intel fanbois for sure.

 

[Idontcare]

The basic layout might be correct. They might have fudged the details to add ambiguity to how big the actual die might be, but I doubt the changes are something unrecognizable.

Even having a clear picture of the die, it can be often 5-10% wrong because the measurement was off by mere few pixels. The upper and the lower cores have different dimension. Unless they plan to really do that(for example have the FPU on the upper core and make the lower core share it), the reason is probably due to editing.

Funny, you and me had the exact same thoughts about it when taking it at face value.

My first inclination was "damn, so they are really going to split out that FPU and begin the atrophication process" as I was thinking the top larger cores were the dual-Integer cores and the bottom was the FPU.

I just read JFAMD comments on semiaccurate and he pretty much siad the photo is very molested to not give away to much info.

I very much like this way of stating the situation...the diemap is very much molested

 

[nyker96]

I'm not an industry insider but what is sooo special about releasing a die of BD? Is this a proof that they can make it or it actually can show some design details? someone explain.

 

[Dekasa]

I'm not an industry insider but what is sooo special about releasing a die of BD? Is this a proof that they can make it or it actually can show some design details? someone explain.

Having a visual of a die allows some very smart people to begin estimating what they did, exactly. You can figure out how much space was dedicated to everything, figure out exactly how much bigger a bulldozer module is compared to a deneb core, and some other stuff.

I, however, just think they're pretty. So I don't worry too much about all that (I like to have definite info).

 

[Idontcare]

I'm not an industry insider but what is sooo special about releasing a die of BD? Is this a proof that they can make it or it actually can show some design details? someone explain.

It is a confidence-building exercise.

As with any industry, any project of minimal complexity is going to involve milestones in its project timeline.

For IC's there are a LOT of biggies when it comes to internal milestones, but the outwardly public ones start to pick up steam around the time of tapeout.

Hitting tapeout is a milestone. Getting first silicon in hand is a milestone. Getting first OS boot is a milestone. Etc.

Among that lengthy list of internal and external milestones is the "picture is worth a thousand words" die-shot that basically says "yes, we are truly this far along in the development timeline for this product".

In the case of super-complex IC's such as Bulldozer that picture isn't just worth a thousand words, its worth a couple billion dollars or more. (hence the intentional distortion of the picture to degrade its value to something on the order of a few tens of thousands of dollars)

we love our car analogies in these forums...car manufacturers go to great lengths to obscure/hide their prototype vehicles, and then along comes a detroit autoshow and they can't wait to show it off.

 

[JFAMD]

Its not like AMD to keep this kind of stuff so close to the chest.

What exactly are they cooking.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=258406&page=3

JF commented on page 2. I think AMD is amusing itself with all this free talk/advertising about the new architecture. They sure are rilling up the intel fanbois for sure.

Actually, we don't release die shots prior to launch. As for amusing ourselves, hardly. When the request came to me I originally said no, I would rather not have the die shot out ahead of launch if I can help it. But there was value in supporting our partner. All of the photoshop work was done to keep the competition from learning too much.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I doubt Intel cares what AMD is doing. Its not like Intel can't get one of AMDs cpus once they go out to partners, M/B makers. Its not like Intel will reverse engineer AMDs work .

 

[JFAMD]

I think there is more than enough evidence that they will go to very great lengths.

It is not about reverse engineering, it is about being able to model performance so that your marketing teams are ready to defend.

 

[Nemesis 1]

^ Would that be akin of comparing ATOM cpus? Which atom do you compare to Zapata?The medfield design for smartphones/handhelds or the Oak trail design for netbooks. If I was intel I would sell my bottom end 2 core SB with 12eu at a 25 cent profit . Because frankly INtel doesn't have anything that can compete in that power range. Fact is I would use a single core HT sb with 12 eu. That would be interesting . But Thats all intel can do to compete unless OAK trail is Alot stronger than I believe it to be . Intels not talking about OAK TRAIL at all and the strangest thing is my brother inlaw isn't either . Thats odd.


You said this.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think there is more than enough evidence that they will go to very great lengths.

My reply to that.
I didn't know Intel reversed engineered AMD cpus but they do have much $$$ . I new AMD reversed enginneered Intel cpu, Crap I in the wrong thread LOL.

 

[JFAMD]

I doubt that they are revese engineering CPUs.

Someone said that Intel probably doesn't care what AMD is doing, but I believe there is enough evidence that they spend a disproportionate amount of time competing with AMD.

 

[ModestGamer]

Actually, we don't release die shots prior to launch. As for amusing ourselves, hardly. When the request came to me I originally said no, I would rather not have the die shot out ahead of launch if I can help it. But there was value in supporting our partner. All of the photoshop work was done to keep the competition from learning too much.

I know why you did it but its been fun to watch the intel loyalists get stirred up over it. Admit it you guys are getting a great big chuckle out of all this.

 

[ModestGamer]

I doubt Intel cares what AMD is doing. Its not like Intel can't get one of AMDs cpus once they go out to partners, M/B makers. Its not like Intel will reverse engineer AMDs work .

Intel is adamantly paranoid about whatever AMD does. Thats why they spend so much money slamming AMD.

 

[nyker96]

Having a visual of a die allows some very smart people to begin estimating what they did, exactly. You can figure out how much space was dedicated to everything, figure out exactly how much bigger a bulldozer module is compared to a deneb core, and some other stuff.

I, however, just think they're pretty. So I don't worry too much about all that (I like to have definite info).

yes, I like the coloring as well, but I think it's artificial like colored shots from electron microscope shots of viruses etc. they originally has no color.

It is a confidence-building exercise.

....

we love our car analogies in these forums...car manufacturers go to great lengths to obscure/hide their prototype vehicles, and then along comes a detroit autoshow and they can't wait to show it off.

ok, I guess it's nothing like the power of showing an actual fabrication of a design sitting right in front you to deliver the message, "See, We got it done! It's not phantomware!"

 

[cbn]

Does anyone have any guesses or theories on how large the die could be?

Would 150mm2 be out of the question?

 

[ModestGamer]

Does anyone have any guesses or theories on how large the die could be?

Would 150mm2 be out of the question?

My geuss would be that they might be around the same size as a phenom II x4 die for the 4 module 8 logical core BD.Unless they decide to use the process node to make the cpu smaller which you could scale down from current dimensions. Its gonna be close would be my geuss but maybe a bit smaller. hard to say.

 

[cbn]

My geuss would be that they might be around the same size as a phenom II x4 die for the 4 module 8 logical core BD.Unless they decide to use the process node to make the cpu smaller which you could scale down from current dimensions. Its gonna be close would be my geuss but maybe a bit smaller. hard to say.

At this point I am *hoping* Bulldozer comes in smaller than expected.

1. A small bulldozer would be cheap for AMD to produce.

2. A small bulldozer will probably make a nice fusion part.

3. A small bulldozer might increase their profit potential against Intel in the mobile category. (when Bulldozer APU replaces Llano APU)

4. According to Hans de Vries estimates they have already done a stellar job at making bobcat smaller than expected.

 

[JFAMD]

I know why you did it but its been fun to watch the intel loyalists get stirred up over it. Admit it you guys are getting a great big chuckle out of all this.

Truth be told, nobody is laughing. It is as much work trying to deal with the rumors now as it is to just keep telling people they won't see a die shot until launch. I have way too much work to spend my time thinking of ways to drive the other guys crazy.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I know why you did it but its been fun to watch the intel loyalists get stirred up over it. Admit it you guys are getting a great big chuckle out of all this.

t
If I were intel I would look back at AMD . AMD already reversed Intel cpus. Intel groupes are Laughing there asses off at guys like informal and frank . for 5 years these 2 AMDzoners been spreading complete 100% lies . But hay If what came out of the oven for AMD doesn't cut it they will throw something together . I do think AMD will have better graphics than intel to start with but thats all they will have. You guys were talking about combiming threads isn't that what Intel macro opps does . Take 2 to make 1 without using 2 cores. Myself I want AMD to beat Intel this round really I do . The pricies of those AMD cpus will scare ya . The best part Intel won't lower their cpus pricies. Doesn't matter to me I will still buy intel . I spent half the day today playing with SB as Bob got a hold of a couple programms for AVX . Man are these low end 1155 nice processsors.