Build Complete Ryzen7 2700X/GB B450M DS3H and W10 upgrade giving me fits.

[Charlie98]

RE: DESK in sig below.

This is my primary desktop I built in 2011, I just replaced the 2500K with a new Ryzen 7 2700X, ASRock B450M mobo, and 2x16 Crucial Ballistic RAM. I also did a clean install of Windows 10... and I have had nothing but problems.

What I've done: Installed new hardware, booted up lickety split. Installed Windows 10 on low mileage SSD, SSD tests good in previous use, and using other utilities. Installed mobo drivers (ASRock only has 2 RealTek drivers for this board...) and CPU drivers (AMD has 6 chipset drivers delivered in a single download.) Once I got it going, I installed all the software I was using on my previous install... all as new installs using the latest downloads, or loaded from CD's. I installed the OS with only the SSD attached. I am using the OEM CPU cooler and a CPU temp monitor... my temps are 35-45C. Memory is in slots A2/B2 as per the instructions. I am running the Ryzen power profile in Windows, including 90% minimum power state.

What it's doing: The entire system is laggy. Some programs operate like they should (QuickBooks, for example,) and some utilities (like Crystal Disk, antivirus programs, Firefox and Thunderbird.) There are some programs that refuse to work... Acronis being one. The odd thing is how long it takes to open... I'll click on an icon, get the control window, and... nothing. For 4 or 5 minutes. Then it will open... sometimes, sometimes not. Programs indicate 'not responding' a LOT... sometimes they crash, sometimes they come back. Even opening This PC to look at the drives... it takes the system 1 minute to populate.

The newest thing to show up is... after switching in a new SATA cable... it won't boot into Windows automatically, I have to F11 and select the SSD for boot. I've tried to change it in the BIOS, but the BIOS doesn't see it, now... but it does when it starts???

What have I tried: Well... I reloaded the OS, again... thinking I got a borked install the first time. The second install is worse. I've switched the SATA cable. I've benched the drives. I've stress-tested the CPU. I've benched the GPU. I've not checked the memory... I don't have a good utility for Ryzen/Windows 10... but I don't think it's that... but I'm open to suggestions.

This is my first major upgrade since 2011... and to AMD with Windows 10. I thought it would be easy... at least as easy as all my Intel/Gigabyte/W7 systems were, this thing is turning into a nightmare.

 

[Steltek]

Yeah, man it's so model by model these days. I usually have had great results with Gigabyte despite the complaints, but my Aorus Gaming 7 Z370 wasn't as good as it should have been. This ASrock Phantom 9 is superb. And despite some initial Bios goblins with Zen2, my MSI Taichi Ryzen board has been really good.

Ah well, if one works poorly, heck try a different one.

Exactly.

Sometimes, I look at the motherboards the various manufacturers sell now and can't help but think that they are more concerned about what type of eyewatering "bling" they can add to it to get attention than they spend on build quality to ensure it will work in the first place.

 

[Arkaign]

Nailed it Stelly.

Yeah it's shocking, from watching Tech Jesus/Gamers Nexus we can even see that it's really common for GPUs to be basically near broken out of the box as well due to shockingly terrible design flaws. Plastic casing that blocks airflow, 'backplates' that function as insulating baking sheets for the poor VRAM underneath, missing or incomplete thermal pads, and even heatsinks that don't line up with the GPU die itself, to say nothing of erratic thermal compound application and cheap fans with shoddy bearings. But hey, RGB!

 

[Charlie98]

Well...

Took the ASRock board back, picked up the Gigabyte board and... Mark will be happy... a WD Black NVMe 500GB M.2 drive... I mean, why not?

Zero luck. If anything, the GB board is more unstable than the ASRock board.

So. It's either the CPU or the memory. I ran the Windows memory diagnostic and it checked out, but it is not on either board's QVL list... in fact, there is only 1 set of 3200Mhz RAM... and my Crucial ain't it. When I go into the BIOS and try to adjust the memory speed down... the BIOS locks up... I've never had that happen before. Everything else responds... just the memory speed adjustments. Also... just like with the ASRock board, all of a sudden it can't see the SSD on boot, I have to go into the boot menu and select it there.

There is also the outside chance the PSU might be it... but I don't think so. It is an older PSU, but I remember Haswell (I think) had problems with older PSU's and they new-and-improved them... I think this PSU is only a few years old. (EDIT: I bought it in JAN15... so it's 5-years old.)

Thoughts?

 

[UsandThem]

Well...

Took the ASRock board back, picked up the Gigabyte board and... Mark will be happy... a WD Black NVMe 500GB M.2 drive... I mean, why not?

Zero luck. If anything, the GB board is more unstable than the ASRock board.

So. It's either the CPU or the memory. I ran the Windows memory diagnostic and it checked out, but it is not on either board's QVL list... in fact, there is only 1 set of 3200Mhz RAM... and my Crucial ain't it. When I go into the BIOS and try to adjust the memory speed down... the BIOS locks up... I've never had that happen before. Everything else responds... just the memory speed adjustments. Also... just like with the ASRock board, all of a sudden it can't see the SSD on boot, I have to go into the boot menu and select it there.

There is also the outside chance the PSU might be it... but I don't think so. It is an older PSU, but I remember Haswell (I think) had problems with older PSU's and they new-and-improved them... I think this PSU is only a few years old. (EDIT: I bought it in JAN15... so it's 5-years old.)

Thoughts?

Without testing the PSU's power output with a multi-meter / PSU tester, it's tough to say. That said, it doesn't sound like a PSU problem.

However, I'm a big proponent of using RAM that is either on the motherboard manufacturer's or RAM manufacturer's QVL list. Incompatible RAM can cause issues like you've experienced, so maybe it's time to rectify that aspect? You can see what modules Crucial states are compatible with your motherboard: https://www.crucial.com/usa/en/advisor

 

[Markfw]

Well...

Took the ASRock board back, picked up the Gigabyte board and... Mark will be happy... a WD Black NVMe 500GB M.2 drive... I mean, why not?

Zero luck. If anything, the GB board is more unstable than the ASRock board.

So. It's either the CPU or the memory. I ran the Windows memory diagnostic and it checked out, but it is not on either board's QVL list... in fact, there is only 1 set of 3200Mhz RAM... and my Crucial ain't it. When I go into the BIOS and try to adjust the memory speed down... the BIOS locks up... I've never had that happen before. Everything else responds... just the memory speed adjustments. Also... just like with the ASRock board, all of a sudden it can't see the SSD on boot, I have to go into the boot menu and select it there.

There is also the outside chance the PSU might be it... but I don't think so. It is an older PSU, but I remember Haswell (I think) had problems with older PSU's and they new-and-improved them... I think this PSU is only a few years old. (EDIT: I bought it in JAN15... so it's 5-years old.)

Thoughts?

Does the motherboard have 2 CPU connectors ? if so, are they both plugged in ?

At this point the memory does seem suspect also. What is the motherboard ? What bios ?

 

[Charlie98]

I've got the QVL list for the Gigabyte board I have... and MicroCenter has a reasonable set in stock... so I think I'll start there before moving to the CPU.

 

[Charlie98]

Does the motherboard have 2 CPU connectors ? if so, are they both plugged in ?

At this point the memory does seem suspect also. What is the motherboard ? What bios ?

Yes... both the ASRock and the GB board take both connectors, and they are both plugged in.

I replaced it with a Gigabyte B450M DS3H. I flashed the most recent BIOS... F50. It came with F41.

 

[Steltek]

Does the motherboard have 2 CPU connectors ? if so, are they both plugged in ?

That model B450M board only has a 24 pin + one 8 pin power connector.

Yes... both the ASRock and the GB board take both connectors, and they are both plugged in.

I replaced it with a Gigabyte B450M DS3H. I flashed the most recent BIOS... F50. It came with F41.

What version of the AMD chipset drivers are you running? The ones that came on the CD with the board if they are old might be partially incompatible with the current BIOS you have installed.

 

[Charlie98]

The board power pin is actually 2x4-pin connectors. My previous board only used one plug, obviously the new boards use both 4-pin plugs.

I downloaded updated drivers directly from AMD and Gigabyte. I do have a question, though. Gigabyte provides an 'AMD chipset' driver as well, the v. number between the two don't correspond... I'm guessing I just need to install the AMD driver, not the Gigabyte... and certainly not both? Or is the Gigabyte driver something else?

 

[Steltek]

The board power pin is actually 2x4-pin connectors. My previous board only used one plug, obviously the new boards use both 4-pin plugs.

I downloaded updated drivers directly from AMD and Gigabyte. I do have a question, though. Gigabyte provides an 'AMD chipset' driver as well, the v. number between the two don't correspond... I'm guessing I just need to install the AMD driver, not the Gigabyte... and certainly not both? Or is the Gigabyte driver something else?

Some of the newer boards have an 8 pin+4 pin in addition to the 24 pin connector. I just installed one of them last week (an ASUS X570) for a relative.

Only use one of the chipset drivers, either AMD or Gigabyte. AMD produces the drivers and then sends them downstream for the OEMs like Gigabyte to alter if needed. However, it has been my experience that most just repackage the AMD drivers under their own branded installer. So, go with the AMD drivers as they normally tend to be the latest releases.

 

[Charlie98]

Nailed it Stelly.

Yeah it's shocking, from watching Tech Jesus/Gamers Nexus we can even see that it's really common for GPUs to be basically near broken out of the box as well due to shockingly terrible design flaws. Plastic casing that blocks airflow, 'backplates' that function as insulating baking sheets for the poor VRAM underneath, missing or incomplete thermal pads, and even heatsinks that don't line up with the GPU die itself, to say nothing of erratic thermal compound application and cheap fans with shoddy bearings. But hey, RGB!

Like this...?

A standard GPU blocks 2 of the 4 SATA ports???

 

[Arkaign]

Some of the newer boards have an 8 pin+4 pin in addition to the 24 pin connector. I just installed one of them last week (an ASUS X570) for a relative.

Only use one of the chipset drivers, either AMD or Gigabyte. AMD produces the drivers and then sends them downstream for the OEMs like Gigabyte to alter if needed. However, it has been my experience that most just repackage the AMD drivers under their own branded installer. So, go with the AMD drivers as they normally tend to be the latest releases.

This is an excellent point that I recommend following nearly across the board (lol). OEMs often lag behind the actual IC mfgs for drivers and optimization, and can even just stop updating their support site for a SKU long before actual updates are maintained. When I fresh load a system I always go to the chipmakers website for any necessary drivers (Intel chipsets, USB, card readers WiFi whatever). You can even get unlocked Realtek HD audio drivers to enable greater functionality. If you ever find any mystery devices in device manager that need drivers, tab over to the section that displays hardware ID, and Google that, it will come up with results identifying it, though the actual links to download on those results are shenanigans. Simply take the results, eg; Texas Instruments Cardbus reader 8455, and Google for their download link.

Even for brand new out of the box just released hardware such as a GPU or even a laptop, forget the drivers that came in the package or preinstalled. Go get the new ones, as the first year of release inevitably contains the most bug fixes and optimizations beyond the original release.

The only thing you'd want to get directly from a Mobo support site is their specific software for added features (if even desired, don't install just to install it lol), and for bios or firmware.

 

[Steltek]

Like this...?

A standard GPU blocks 2 of the 4 SATA ports???

Now that design placement just beyond sucks - looks like it was designed by a binging hobo.

Depending upon the port placement and the distance between the bottom of the video card and the port connector, you might be able to recover at least one of them using a SATA cable with a right or left hand 90 degree connector. However, it shouldn't be necessary in the first place.

Probably a mini-ATX board in an HTPC box, I'd guess?

 

[Charlie98]

Nope... that's my current desktop. I read the reviews on Newegg... I knew what I was getting, but with the M.2 drive I only need 2 SATA ports. It's pretty tight behind the GPU, I don't know if I could wedge a 90^ plug back in there to start with, and because of the fan, I don't think I can use that partially exposed port, either.

One of these days, I'll replace the old 760 with a shorty card... but I measured it, no more than 7" long or so.

 

[Charlie98]

Update #2...

Well... all of a sudden, everything seems to be playing nice. Programs open and close reasonably fast, nothing is crashing. Even Acronis is responding pretty well. It looks like my memory is running at 2400MHz, which was where I was trying to set it to... so maybe the system figured it out, finally.

I ran the CPU stress test in CPUz, max temps were 56-57C.

If anyone knows a good memory utility that works with Ryzen, let me know. My old version of LinX doesn't do anything.

Now... I have to deal with the software vendors to get the installs validated for the new mobo... I already got hung up on trying to reset Windows 10...

I'm not going to call this solved... not yet. Let's just say hope has sprung from my weary heart...

 

[Arkaign]

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If you're just needing some extra SATA for HDDs, this one works a treat, and you probably have a clearance-ready PCIe port for it, it's a tiny card. There are also some faster ones that are more useful if you want to mix SSDs on it as well. This X1 card caps at 500mb/sec, which is fine for mechanical drives and optical drives. I've had similar issues where the Mobo SATA ports were just impractical in the placement due to ramming up against obstacles.

Of course there are better ones still, some of the hardware raid cards are fairly awesome due to robust onboard processors and cache, which really reduces storage-related effort off your CPU and OS a bit.

 

[Arkaign]

Now 2400Ghz, that's what I call some speedy memory! I guess that's 2.4Thz lol.

Note : the PCIe X1 SATA card can usually fit in the slot above the GPU, most boards from recent era going back to later C2D days have one sitting up there, which I occasionally use to add a USB C or SATA or 2.5/5GBe lan card depending on needs.

 

[Charlie98]

Whoops... I was all excited about my new M.2 drive... and stuck the G in there.

 

[Charlie98]

Note : the PCIe X1 SATA card can usually fit in the slot above the GPU, most boards from recent era going back to later C2D days have one sitting up there, which I occasionally use to add a USB C or SATA or 2.5/5GBe lan card depending on needs.

Guess where the 1x slot is??? You guessed it... underneath the GPU.

 

[Charlie98]

Update #3...

Day 3 of smooth sailing. Finally got Microsoft to re-activate my 10Pro key (along with a few others...) and I've continued to load my stuff. Every once in a while it'll catch somewhere, but by and large it's behaving more like I thought it should.

I am impressed with the NVMe drive... the bench numbers are astounding. It does run hot, even at idle... 37-40C vs 23-26C for the other drives... so I'm a bit concerned about that... but my typical I/O load shouldn't burn it up.

 

[UsandThem]

It does run hot, even at idle... 37-40C vs 23-26C for the other drives... so I'm a bit concerned about that... but my typical I/O load shouldn't burn it up.

That's nothing for a NVMe drive, as depending on the brand, they go up to 75 - 85c before they need to throttle their performance to cool off.

 

[Charlie98]

That's nothing for a NVMe drive, as depending on the brand, they go up to 75 - 85c before they need to throttle their performance to cool off.

Good to know... I'm used to 50C being the Danger Zone...

 

[Steltek]

You can get heatsinks for them if it becomes a problem in the future, but in most cases it really isn't necessary as long as the case has decent airflow.

 

[killster1]

Update #2...

Well... all of a sudden, everything seems to be playing nice. Programs open and close reasonably fast, nothing is crashing. Even Acronis is responding pretty well. It looks like my memory is running at 2400MHz, which was where I was trying to set it to... so maybe the system figured it out, finally.

I ran the CPU stress test in CPUz, max temps were 56-57C.

If anyone knows a good memory utility that works with Ryzen, let me know. My old version of LinX doesn't do anything.

Now... I have to deal with the software vendors to get the installs validated for the new mobo... I already got hung up on trying to reset Windows 10...

I'm not going to call this solved... not yet. Let's just say hope has sprung from my weary heart...

congrats on everything working correctly, that was my first thought your ram needs to be dialed in. heatsinks on nvme drives are a good idea but the faster they are the warmer they run, and 70c is normal.

 

[Markfw]

Update #3...

Day 3 of smooth sailing. Finally got Microsoft to re-activate my 10Pro key (along with a few others...) and I've continued to load my stuff. Every once in a while it'll catch somewhere, but by and large it's behaving more like I thought it should.

I am impressed with the NVMe drive... the bench numbers are astounding. It does run hot, even at idle... 37-40C vs 23-26C for the other drives... so I'm a bit concerned about that... but my typical I/O load shouldn't burn it up.

I am glad you took my suggestion on the NVME drive, and I see it has worked out well for you. Maybe one reason its behaving now ???