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Question Ryzen fan speed and cooling

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moinmoin

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Jun 1, 2017
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NZXT may let the CPU ramp up whenever it's polling, which causes the temperature spike, which causes the fan to speed up. Use just Ryzen Master and completely close all other monitoring apps, does the fan still ramp up regularly? It shouldn't. If it still does the fan speed curve should be adapted.
 
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Hitman928

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2012
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What is probably happening is that Ryzen master is showing the die temperature (something like a weighted average across all the temp sensors in the CPU) whereas the other programs (and possibly the BIOS) are using the hotspot temp (i.e. the hottest reported temp from all of the diodes). Ryzen master is more accurate in this sense as the hotspot will change locations for thermal distrubution as the load is passed between cores so the hotspot temp is more like a transient temperature which is why you are getting transient, somewhat cyclical reaction from your fan controller.

If you set your CPU as low as 55 C when it is using this hotspot temp, air cooling won't be able to stop this from happening, the thermal density at 7 nm is just too high. I would back off on your fan curve by 20 C or more. Then when you are actually using the CPU under heavy load, the temperature will distribute more evenly and all the sensors will start to read (more or less) the same thing and ryzen master should match what your fans are doing. You may also be able to change a BIOS setting to use CPU avg versus CPU hotspot for the fan curve or something like that, you'd have to check what options are available there.

Once that is out of the way we can look into what is causing the CPU to spike briefly all the time. From your other screenshot it looks like a monitoring software, a razr mouse software package, and lghub are the busiest processes.
 

funboy6942

Lifer
Nov 13, 2001
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That's your issue right there.

You do not need to have your CPU fan max out at 55c.
I had left it alone at first, and was having the same problem at stock 65C my board is set to, for it was going to max at that for it hits over 65c at times, and was even more nuts because at stock, and higher temp setting set in bios the fan curve wasnt as aggressive as I have it set to now, making it even worse to listen to for at stock its pretty much nothing till about 45-50c, and then from there is loud, quiet, loud, quiet. Setting it to 55c lessens the huge gap in sound from going from quiet to max at 65c. I have it set to that at the moment, but Im going to go back into bios and hit it to full blast, for Im just sick of listening to this thing going quiet, loud, quiet, loud, semi quiet, loud, quiet, semi, loud, semi, quiet. Its just nuts :p I may as well just have it at least steady at one speed and just be loud at this point.
 

Topweasel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2000
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But I have to stress, that if Ryzen master is to be correct, then why is my bios kicking my CPU fan to max, when its set to be at max at 55C, not 40~c, for it does go up and down when watching the temps and clock speed go insane using CPUz and NZXT, NOT Ryzen, for if it again was to be believed, I shouldnt be hearing my CPU fan at all.
And as you can see in my pic of the bios, my case is at 35-40C inside, so no real reason for the temps, AND YES, I did go into bios and kicked up ALL of my fans to max, and it didnt change the temps being reported, granted I had my CPU fan set to max, and was loud, and steady, the temps and clocks on the other hand, were still exactly the same, no change at all.

55c is pretty low to set to max spin. It goes back to the point about where the temps are taken from the other tools aren't lying, just that they could be using any sort of temp information to spin up the fan. In the end 50c if using the basis of any part of the CPU being at 50c is easy to hit with any and I mean usage of the CPU. So if MB is looking at a single core hitting 55c for even a second (polling software) it will spike up. But the realiable CPU package temp is what you see on RM.

That said I would look at mounting and redo the paste. For this people have been having excellent success with a large pea in the center and a smaller pea directly above each ccd. considering possible enclave and conclave possibilities on the heatspreader and cold plate, this application may be more important as contact with the cold plate might be weaker outside the center where the ccd is.
 

UsandThem

Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 4, 2000
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I had left it alone at first, and was having the same problem at stock 65C my board is set to, for it was going to max at that for it hits over 65c at times, and was even more nuts because at stock, and higher temp setting set in bios the fan curve wasnt as aggressive as I have it set to now, making it even worse to listen to for at stock its pretty much nothing till about 45-50c, and then from there is loud, quiet, loud, quiet. Setting it to 55c lessens the huge gap in sound from going from quiet to max at 65c. I have it set to that at the moment, but Im going to go back into bios and hit it to full blast, for Im just sick of listening to this thing going quiet, loud, quiet, loud, semi quiet, loud, quiet, semi, loud, semi, quiet. Its just nuts :p I may as well just have it at least steady at one speed and just be loud at this point.
What I did to eliminate the auto constant up and down fan RPM, was to create a custom fan profile in the BIOS (which I do in both Intel and AMD builds).

I have fan start at something like 45% of PWM of the fan, and gradually increasing all the way up to 80c. I then set it to take a reading from the CPU every 7 seconds, to disregard the momentary core boost spikes. Otherwise, the motherboard will constantly boost the RPM of the fans before quickly falling back down.

Different builds/airflow/fans will require you to tweak the settings a few times before getting your particular build dialed in.
 
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funboy6942

Lifer
Nov 13, 2001
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As I mentioned I did redo it 2 times, once with Artctic ceramic based, and then redid it with Artctic MX4, and after seeing it when I pulled it off the first round was done right, I still did it with my other paste just to be on the safe side, and also see if the paste would make a difference at all with the temps, and it didnt. Also one thing I have always done with all my cpus is that, before I crank down on the cpu mount, I always give the heatsink a little wiggle ever so slightly before the final press down to "even" it all out. I have never had a problem with doing this on my 1700X, my 1600, or now on my 3600X Ryzen, for this is my 3rd one of them, and this is the very first time I have ever come into this. My son now has my 1600 and my old thermaltake hsf, and before with the stock 1600 Ryzen hsf his was a vacuum cleaner when it was being used in games, now he told me today its mouse fart quiet in his games. And his isnt doing what mine is doing.

As far as the temp sensors, here is the screen shot of my bios section with the fan curve, and it seems to have more then one cpu sensor if Im seeing it right, for its posted 2 times on that screen, and both showing the 40c that it will come down to after going from windows to it.

And as far as what is the busiest, it may be my razer software, or logitech, but its only at less then 1% total usage between the 2 and the entire rest of the system stuff running.
 

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funboy6942

Lifer
Nov 13, 2001
14,669
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NZXT may let the CPU ramp up whenever it's polling, which causes the temperature spike, which causes the fan to speed up. Use just Ryzen Master and completely close all other monitoring apps, does the fan still ramp up regularly? It shouldn't. If it still does the fan speed curve should be adapted.
Change it to 65 or 70c and see if it makes a difference.
Like I mentioned, before I moved it to 55c, I had it at the stock 65c, and I was still listening to it ramp up and down because it was hitting almost 70c at times, I think I saw as high as 69c, and again folks, this is with no real cpu usage to speak of, at 1-4% load at max at system idle. NO GPU usage at all, and my clock speed shows in Ryzen master at 1-1500ghz, where NZXT and CPUz was reporting over 4200 all the time, and never going under 4.
 

Hitman928

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2012
2,601
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As I mentioned I did redo it 2 times, once with Artctic ceramic based, and then redid it with Artctic MX4, and after seeing it when I pulled it off the first round was done right, I still did it with my other paste just to be on the safe side, and also see if the paste would make a difference at all with the temps, and it didnt. Also one thing I have always done with all my cpus is that, before I crank down on the cpu mount, I always give the heatsink a little wiggle ever so slightly before the final press down to "even" it all out. I have never had a problem with doing this on my 1700X, my 1600, or now on my 3600X Ryzen, for this is my 3rd one of them, and this is the very first time I have ever come into this. My son now has my 1600 and my old thermaltake hsf, and before with the stock 1600 Ryzen hsf his was a vacuum cleaner when it was being used in games, now he told me today its mouse fart quiet in his games. And his isnt doing what mine is doing.

As far as the temp sensors, here is the screen shot of my bios section with the fan curve, and it seems to have more then one cpu sensor if Im seeing it right, for its posted 2 times on that screen, and both showing the 40c that it will come down to after going from windows to it.

And as far as what is the busiest, it may be my razer software, or logitech, but its only at less then 1% total usage between the 2 and the entire rest of the system stuff running.
What options are under, "Fan control use temperature input"?

Also, here's what I would do for fan curve then you can test it at idle and under load:

0 - 65 C - 30%
70 C - 40%
75 C - 70%
80 C - 90%
85 C - 100%

If that still has an issue with idle jump then:

0 - 70 C - 30%
75 C - 40%
80 C - 70%
85 C - 90%
87 C - 100%
 

Zstream

Diamond Member
Oct 24, 2005
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Like I mentioned, before I moved it to 55c, I had it at the stock 65c, and I was still listening to it ramp up and down because it was hitting almost 70c at times, I think I saw as high as 69c, and again folks, this is with no real cpu usage to speak of, at 1-4% load at max at system idle. NO GPU usage at all, and my clock speed shows in Ryzen master at 1-1500ghz, where NZXT and CPUz was reporting over 4200 all the time, and never going under 4.
For gods sake man. Listen to what the people are telling you! Uninstall all your unnecessary crap tools, all your extra monitoring tools and leave it to Ryzen Master ONLY! I have had multiple 3600’s and never had any issues outside of my bios settings for fans.
and turn off auto for fan control. Sheesh it’s not that hard.
 
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moinmoin

Golden Member
Jun 1, 2017
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But I have to stress, that if Ryzen master is to be correct, then why is my bios kicking my CPU fan to max, when its set to be at max at 55C, not 40~c, for it does go up and down when watching the temps and clock speed go insane using CPUz and NZXT, NOT Ryzen, for if it again was to be believed, I shouldnt be hearing my CPU fan at all.
Afaik AMD only changed the temperature reading within Ryzen Master, the temperature reading in the bios which the fan relies on is still the reading of hotspots that doesn't reflect actual package temperature or whatever. :neutral:

I think I saw as high as 69c, and again folks, this is with no real cpu usage to speak of, at 1-4% load at max at system idle.
You are seeing the effects of hotspots as a result of very short spikes since even at "idle" there is still software running and Ryzen will ramp up the speed as fast as possible to finish the calculation as quickly as possible whenever software demands that. AMD did tone it down somewhat as the behavior originally was very aggressive, but if you have software that doesn't behave well at idle you'll still have regular spikes.
 

Hitman928

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2012
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Like I mentioned, before I moved it to 55c, I had it at the stock 65c, and I was still listening to it ramp up and down because it was hitting almost 70c at times, I think I saw as high as 69c, and again folks, this is with no real cpu usage to speak of, at 1-4% load at max at system idle. NO GPU usage at all, and my clock speed shows in Ryzen master at 1-1500ghz, where NZXT and CPUz was reporting over 4200 all the time, and never going under 4.
Again, this is because of the thermal density issue at 7 nm compounded by the fact that AMD jacks up the voltage (temporarily) to hit the single core boosts. So a simple poll that causes a very brief single core load will cause the CPU to jump to (or near) max boost with a jacked up voltage. Because 7nm is so dense it creates a hotspot that causes a seemingly instantaneous jump in localized temp on that core to ~70C. There is nothing you can do to stop this without more extreme cooling. If the fan controller is using the hotspot temp as it's source then it will cause the fans to spin up to whatever you have set for 70C. Once the quick load goes away, the hotspot temp goes away and your fans drop back down.

You need to either adjust your fan curve to account for this or see if the BIOS can use a different CPU temp for its source to control the fans that is more like what ryzen master reports as that is the preferable temp to use.

Please adjust your fan curve as I recommended above and report back. Also report what power plan you are using. Once the fan issue is figured out we can see about the constant (but short) loads that are happening on your system. Even if that wasn't happening, you would still get this annoying behavior with the fans just browsing or doing light office work so we need to fix the fan curve no matter what.
 

funboy6942

Lifer
Nov 13, 2001
14,669
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For gods sake man. Listen to what the people are telling you! Uninstall all your unnecessary crap tools, all your extra monitoring tools and leave it to Ryzen Master ONLY! I have had multiple 3600’s and never had any issues outside of my bios settings for fans.
DUDE for gods sake man, read what I have posted, and that is I REMOVED them, and I deleted all traces of them left in my registry and Im still listening to my fan ramp up and down. They are gone, I took the advice and removed them again for as I said before, that BEFORE i even installed that stuff I was listening to the fan, thats why I installed them, to see what it was doing, then told to install the Ryzen master program as instructed, and it says a totally different picture, and if to be believed, at my bios that was set to 55c to max out my fan, I shouldnt of have to hear it at all at the reported 40~c Ryzen claims im running at! I dont believe again for a 2nd that stock speeds are to be at 3.8 and turbo at 4.4, but to be normal to run at 4.4ghz with a 1% load on the cpu and a 0% load on the video card, proving that I have NOTHING running at all that would max out my cores to its max, and that my bios is being told, unlike what Ryzen master is reporting, because it was set to 55c to max out and its doing just that, not when if ryzen is saying 40~c, then bios wouldnt be making my CPU fan kick all the way up. And I havent had this problem before with any of mine, which is why I am asking for help in this, on the off chance someone has had this problem and can tell me what it is I am doing wrong, and why ryzen is reporting something tottaly different, for if it was really at 1-1500hgz as reported, and at 40~c as reported, I wouldnt be asking why is it my fan for my cpu maxing out, then backing down, then maxing out, and again and again, if it was really just at 40-45c as ryzen says it is, because again, if it was, my fan curve isnt set up to max the fan out at that temp, and would be sitting here hearing it do this crap, or even asking for help for that matter ;)

I was asked to install gpuz, to see what it reports because I was told that NZXT app I was using was reporting it wrong, but it was exactly the same reporting as the NZXT was saying, only the Ryzen program shows a totally different picture as far as heat, and SPEED is concerned. The other 2 show identical everything, the Ryzen doesnt, and since bios is being told Im running, hot and fast, well off then what Ryzen says, its making my CPU fan do what its doing.


I really dont want to go higher with the fan curve due to the fact its being reported to being at almost 70c at max WITH NOTHING running, no load, no game, no music, no nothing, and gpu showing a 0% load, and the cpu has a max working limit of 92C and im only 20c away from that. I have yet to try a game and see what its reporting but will. But dont come at me saying Im not listening, I am, I removed it all, just the Ryzen master program is installed still, and yet before, durring, and after the removal, NOTHING has made it any different. Granted again, I said I can max out the fan to full power all the time, so I dont have to hear it go fast and slow all the time, BUT it still even set to max doesnt change the fact my temps dont change and still is the exact same with it maxed, or the stock fan curve, or me setting it to max at 55c, it doesnt matter. The ONLY time again, that it doesnt ramp up and down is when I shut down my pc, get right into bios, and I watch my temps, and fan rpm, and noise, go down till it hits 40c and stays there. It doesnt jump around, and the fan isnt going nuts, only when I go back into windows does it all happen again.
 
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Hitman928

Platinum Member
Apr 15, 2012
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I really dont want to go higher with the fan curve due to the fact its being reported to being at almost 70c at max WITH NOTHING running, no load, no game, no music, no nothing, and gpu showing a 0% load, and the cpu has a max working limit of 92C and im only 20c away from that. I have yet to try a game and see what its reporting but will. But dont come at me saying Im not listening, I am, I removed it all, just the Ryzen master program is installed still, and yet before, durring, and after the removal, NOTHING has made it any different. Granted again, I said I can max out the fan to full power all the time, so I dont have to hear it go fast and slow all the time, BUT it still even set to max doesnt change the fact my temps dont change and still is the exact same with it maxed, or the stock fan curve, or me setting it to max at 55c, it doesnt matter. The ONLY time again, that it doesnt ramp up and down is when I shut down my pc, get right into bios, and I watch my temps, and fan rpm, and noise, go down till it hits 40c and stays there. It doesnt jump around, and the fan isnt going nuts, only when I go back into windows does it all happen again.
If you don't want to go higher with your fan curve then you won't be able to fix this, full stop. Even if you eliminate whatever is causing these very brief loads, any time you open a web browser or do anything that causes a light load on the CPU and then a drop to idle, this will happen every time and constantly while you're doing whatever you're doing on the computer.

If you're not willing to try a higher fan curve and monitor temps with it, I don't have any other advice for you. Again, high performance CPUs built on these very small process nodes have this issue inherently, you won't solve it with air cooling.

Last thing I'll suggest is, run a full load (something like Cinbench) with your fans at 100%, and then 80% and check to see what your temps are, I think that might be a revealing test.
 

UsandThem

Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 4, 2000
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I really dont want to go higher with the fan curve due to the fact its being reported to being at almost 70c at max WITH NOTHING running, no load, no game, no music, no nothing, and gpu showing a 0% load, and the cpu has a max working limit of 92C and im only 20c away from that.
If you don't want to go higher with your fan curve then you won't be able to fix this, full stop. Even if you eliminate whatever is causing these very brief loads, any time you open a web browser or do anything that causes a light load on the CPU and then a drop to idle, this will happen every time and constantly while you're doing whatever you're doing on the computer.

If you're not willing to try a higher fan curve and monitor temps with it, I don't have any other advice for you. Again, high performance CPUs built on these very small process nodes have this issue inherently, you won't solve it with air cooling.
Yup+++

If you're not willing to listen to Ryzen users tell you how to fix the concern, than there's not much else anyone can do for you.

With that, I wish you good luck!
 

funboy6942

Lifer
Nov 13, 2001
14,669
116
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I did that already for I wasnt sure what it was, and decided to just redo my system with the latest version of windows. Didnt fix my problem. I tried 2 different heat sinks, and 2 different variations of paste, didnt fix it. I tired different monitoring software with 2 showing the same, and one showing different, didnt fix the problem. I have but a 1% load on the cpu, and 0% load on the gpu, showing that there isnt anything taxing the system to cause the high temps, or the aggressive clock speeds being reported other then with Ryzen master being way different, and if at that speed wouldnt be causing my cpu fan to be doing what it is at that speed and heat, and wouldnt be asking for the help. My software is for my Logitech G935 and Razer headset, and I would kinda believe you had it no been for the fact im at a 1% load on the cpu and a 0% load on the gpu, so please lmk why you would think that is maybe the cause when its not taxing my system at all.

He has a razr mouse package and lghub package installed that could be the culprits. Not sure if there's others or if he removed these when you got rid of the other monitoring programs.

I had the Gigiabyte RGB program installed, but have since removed it several days ago when I noticed it was using 7-10% cpu power running in the background, so once I saw that I removed it, and have since dropped to 1-3% cpu usage at idle. The headsets is all I have for my mouse is a Kensington Turbo Mouse from the 90's and doesnt require a driver, my keyboard is a gofreetech mechanical and doesnt require a driver, or had to install a driver for it ever, and my controller for games is a wired xbox one controller that also didnt need a driver to be installed by me. None of it should be effecting the clock speeds for in order for it to clock to 4.4ghz id have to be using some cpu usage to do that, and Im not. There are no other drivers installed that is using the cpu usage, and there isnt but a few things running in the background, no of which is using any to speak of really cpu usage power for it to max out its cores. I could understand if I had installed a program that uses the crap out of the cpu to run, but I havent anything, and again I have but Steam, and Origins installed for games, nothing more to cause any malware crytominning, which if I did, my gpu would be at 100% usage, and its at 0%.
 

VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
48,452
5,124
126
Do me a big favor? Install the newest version of CPU-Z (from www.cpuid.com ), and then click on the Motherboard tab, and hit ALT+PrntScrn and paste it here. I want to know what AGESA you're running on that board. I had somewhat similar issues with AGESA 1.0.0.2 (an early, barely-supported AGESA for Matisse).
 

funboy6942

Lifer
Nov 13, 2001
14,669
116
106
Yup+++

If you're not willing to listen to Ryzen users tell you how to fix the concern, than there's not much else anyone can do for you.

With that, I wish you good luck!

Wait, let me get this straight. I was told to set it to 65-70c, and I said its stock setting it at 65c for max, and my cpu, as I said is hitting 70c, so how is it a fix when setting it to even 70c will still cause it to max out my fan, or come really close? And how is that a fix if Im hitting almost 70 at an idle, what happens when I actually game on it at it hits 90C at that point for the fan is maxed out at 70c? Whats my fix then?? I dont need to put a bandaid on this, I want to know why it is Im hitting 70c at idle, with 4.4 on the core with NO load, when at no load I should be at 3.8ghz per AMD, and turbo to that under a heavy load? How is this fixing my problem in figuring out im at its max turbo speed and hitting 70c all at an idle? I dont see how changing it to 70c is going to fix my problem at all. I appreciate all the help, I really do, but my 1700x nor my 1600 had any problems at all like this, and I would tend to believe some of the stuff, but your not addressing my facts that Im at a 1% load, at max turbo core, hitting 70c, and setting my fan curve to over 70c to hit max is going to fix my turbo core, and fan from ramping up and down all the time? I just dont see the logic :(
 

funboy6942

Lifer
Nov 13, 2001
14,669
116
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Do me a big favor? Install the newest version of CPU-Z (from www.cpuid.com ), and then click on the Motherboard tab, and hit ALT+PrntScrn and paste it here. I want to know what AGESA you're running on that board. I had somewhat similar issues with AGESA 1.0.0.2 (an early, barely-supported AGESA for Matisse).
1.0.04 and I did install earlier when asked to direct from cpuid and used it to see if the nzxt app was correct or not, as asked.
 

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VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
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I appreciate all the help, I really do, but my 1700x nor my 1600 had any problems at all like this
I just dont see the logic
It's certainly a very interesting change in behavior, and a bit of shock to most of us when we experienced it, but ... I would hesitate to call it a "problem", at this point at least.

If you have the fan maxed out, and you're hitting 90C in gaming, then that could well be a problem.

It's my unsubstantiated (other than anecdotal), unscientific, opinion that these 3000-series CPUs, are best under AIO WC, 240mm or better. Go big or go home.

Edit: There also appears to be a significant variance in terms of silicon lottery variation, and temps and hotspots and things of that nature. Some people get away with the stock cooler, on a 3600, without hitting 90C. And some people (like myself), just couldn't seem to tame the temps.

It was worse with a 1.0.0.2 preliminary AGESA version, things got better after 1.0.0.3 ABBA and 1.0.0.4 patch B.

What AGESA are you running on your rig? (I told you how to find that, using CPU-Z.)
 
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