Ryzen 1400 OC to 3.8Ghz+, as the basis for new budget (mid-range?) gaming builds, versus G4560?

[VirtualLarry]

Does this make any sense to anyone?

Or is the G4560 the undisputed champ of budget gaming builds?

Just musing.

I've got parts for another several G4560 builds, but I haven't got any nibbles on a decent one I put on Craigslist for around $500.

Was hoping that would go quick, then I could afford parts to finish a few more of these builds, rinse, repeat.

Maybe Ryzen makes more sense.

I see rigs with an i5-3470, and a R5 240, and I can't help but think some people see that's a true quad-core, and go for that one over my G4560 build, even though it has a way lesser GPU.

 

[Smoblikat]

Does this make any sense to anyone?

Or is the G4560 the undisputed champ of budget gaming builds?

Just musing.

I've got parts for another several G4560 builds, but I haven't got any nibbles on a decent one I put on Craigslist for around $500.

Was hoping that would go quick, then I could afford parts to finish a few more of these builds, rinse, repeat.

Maybe Ryzen makes more sense.

I see rigs with an i5-3470, and a R5 240, and I can't help but think some people see that's a true quad-core, and go for that one over my G4560 build, even though it has a way lesser GPU.

Ding ding ding. Never once would I consider a G4560 for anything other than a granny web browsing rig. I5 2500K's can be had for $75 regularly on ebay, and thats an actual quad core with an unlocked proc. If I was on a budget, thats one of the very few chips I would consider.

 

[Ancalagon44]

The R5 1400 is too expensive to be in the budget champion CPU list. It is however a better buy than the i3 7350K.

The G4560 is half the price, so that is the true budget king.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Just so you know, Smoblikat, the G4560 trades blows with a stock-clocked 2500K.

 

[daveybrat]

Ding ding ding. Never once would I consider a G4560 for anything other than a granny web browsing rig. I5 2500K's can be had for $75 regularly on ebay, and thats an actual quad core with an unlocked proc. If I was on a budget, thats one of the very few chips I would consider.

But then you also have to buy an old used overpriced motherboard to go along with it. With a G4560, you can pickup a cheap B250 motherboard that support NVMe and all the new features. And the G4560 is hardly a slouch next to a 2500K stock.

 

[Smoblikat]

But then you also have to buy an old used overpriced motherboard to go along with it. With a G4560, you can pickup a cheap B250 motherboard that support NVMe and all the new features. And the G4560 is hardly a slouch next to a 2500K stock.

Its true that the old 1155 boards are extremely expensive for no reason, but DDR3 is also cheaper than DDR4, and every 1155 board supports NVMe with a little coercing. Maybe an OC'd 4560 might see similar (read, slightly lower) performance compared to a 2500K, but why would anyone buy either processor to run it at stock? It has a K for a reason, and the extra 2 real cores will help out greatly with general system use alongisde gaming, not to mention several games (that ive personally seen) take full advantage of 4 cores.

 

[SPBHM]

I think the 4560 makes a lot more sense due to the price difference, it kind of feels like sub $200 the 4560 is the only relevant CPU at this point, specially if your VGA is bellow a 1060.

talking about selling I can see the "Pentium" name, or dual core thing going against it, but, AMD is in the same boat... i5 7400 would be an easier sale than quad core Ryzen I think.

 

[cbn]

I see rigs with an i5-3470, and a R5 240, and I can't help but think some people see that's a true quad-core, and go for that one over my G4560 build, even though it has a way lesser GPU.

Two things IMHO to consider:

1. How often and how much do you think these buyers (on average) will use the gaming PC? This versus how much they want to pay for the hardware?

2. Pentium is normally considered a non-gaming CPU with only two threads. That plus a higher price for your PC might be keeping folks from buying.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

2. Pentium is normally considered a non-gaming CPU with only two threads. That plus a higher price for your PC might be keeping folks from buying.

Kaby Lake Pentiums have HT. Finally...

Because of it, they punch way above their class.

 

[crashtech]

Kaby Lake Pentiums have HT. Finally...

Because of it, they punch way above their class.

I don't think they all do, at least not when I checked. The G4560 seems exceptional in this regard.

Edit : okay, maybe almost all of them do, but the G4400, for one, does not. Caveat Emptor.

 

[cbn]

Kaby Lake Pentiums have HT. Finally...

Because of it, they punch way above their class.

Oh Yes, I do know that G4560 has HT. But that name "Pentium" has been associated with 2C/2T for many many years now.

 

[cbn]

Regarding the usage of budget gaming PCs (my question from post #8), I think on average people would use them less than they did in the past.

Main reason is that laptops and smartphones are now sharing a lot of mundane (non-gaming) computing needs that would have been handled solely by the budget (gaming) desktop PC in the past.

In fact, just thinking back to own first build in mid 2006 the desktop was the only computer most people used. (Blackberry was around at this time but it was very primitive compared to smartphones today and laptops were expensive and slow. In fact, it wasn't until netbooks (with Intel atom) came out 2 or 3 years later that laptops became very affordable....but they were very slow and many people returned them because of that). But now things are different and even a $350 laptop can be pretty fast.

Mid 2017 (for most people):

Smartphone
laptop
Desktop

or

Smartphone
Laptop

vs.

Mid 2006 (for most people):

Desktop

 

[dave_the_nerd]

I see rigs with an i5-3470, and a R5 240, and I can't help but think some people see that's a true quad-core, and go for that one over my G4560 build, even though it has a way lesser GPU.

People are stupid.

Over the weekend, my (not affluent) brother, who I don't see very often, asked me about building a gaming rig, thinking he might finally ditch his XB1 (which is being sent in for warranty repair - again.) So I helped him spec out a G4560 / 1050Ti system on PCPartPicker, using a B250 motherboard.

The next day, his "friend" told him that it wasn't a good gaming system, since:

1) The CPU is not good enough for gaming (Point of this thread.)
2) The CPU isn't upgradable (whuh?)
3) He would need water cooling (wat...)
4) The GPU isn't good enough for playable framerates in BF1 @ 1080p w/ med. settings
5) 16GB of RAM is too much (lolwut?)
6) SSDs aren't any better than HDDs. (Even our dad, who blames computer games for his lack of grandchildren, had a few words to say about THAT one.)

This "friend", for the record, is a guy who reformatted his system because he was getting crap framerates in some FPS, after copy/pasting a .ini file from some website.

I looked my brother in the eye and uttered a stream of profound obscenities. But the hell of it is, I think he believes his friend over me.

 

[cbn]

I see rigs with an i5-3470, and a R5 240, and I can't help but think some people see that's a true quad-core, and go for that one over my G4560 build, even though it has a way lesser GPU.

People are stupid.

I agree about the GPU part, but the CPU is faster:

So it depends on how much they are charging for the Core i5 3470 computer vs. the cost of upgrading the R7 240 to a GTX 1050 Ti?

Used computer (with Core i5 3470) + GTX 1050 Ti vs. new computer (with G4560) + GTX 1050 Ti.

With that mentioned, I do believe new computers should cost more than used ones.

 

[VirtualLarry]

But the hell of it is, I think he believes his friend over me.

I know your pain. I think some (ok, one) of my (former?) customers, that are somewhat clueless about tech (I had to practically pull teeth to sell them an external HDD - at a discount - and try to talk them into "backing up" their business data). They fell for the "indian tech-support scam", and I told them that they should re-format their system, and I charged them appropriately, and I think that they don't understand computers enough to realize that they could have done anything to their system (with business data). I think that they think I'm like a dentist that tries to drill extra cavities.

"What do you mean I might have a security breach? It boots OK!"

"What do you mean 'back up'? This portable HDD I've been using with my only copy of critical business data has been running FINE the last 5 years..."

 

[VirtualLarry]

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod...DesktopComputers-_-83101578-S1A4D&ignorebbr=1

Apparently, Acer see value in offering an entry-level Ryzen 5 1400-based gaming rig, with a 2GB GTX1050, for $770.

Edit: Hmm, are OEM pre-built systems compatible with "Ryzen Master" software? Will OEM Ryzen rigs overclock? That could be HUGE!

Edit: Nevermind, don't mean to get my hopes up. I forgot that the entry-level chipset for Ryzen (the A320) doesn't let you overclock. And chances are, that OEMs are using the cheapest chipset possible.

 

[XSoldier77X]

Does this make any sense to anyone?

Or is the G4560 the undisputed champ of budget gaming builds?

Just musing.

I've got parts for another several G4560 builds, but I haven't got any nibbles on a decent one I put on Craigslist for around $500.

Was hoping that would go quick, then I could afford parts to finish a few more of these builds, rinse, repeat.

Maybe Ryzen makes more sense.

I see rigs with an i5-3470, and a R5 240, and I can't help but think some people see that's a true quad-core, and go for that one over my G4560 build, even though it has a way lesser GPU.

Forget about G4560. Personally, I feel you'll be better off with Ryzen 1600 instead of 1400. But again, it you have limitations, 1400 might still be a better choice than G4560.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Forget about G4560. Personally, I feel you'll be better off with Ryzen 1600 instead of 1400. But again, it you have limitations, 1400 might still be a better choice than G4560.

They're nowhere near each other in terms of cost. What does AMD have that's competitive w/ the G4560, and costs ~$60?

 

[Insert_Nickname]

The next day, his "friend" told him that it wasn't a good gaming system, since:

1) The CPU is not good enough for gaming (Point of this thread.)
2) The CPU isn't upgradable (whuh?)
3) He would need water cooling (wat...)
4) The GPU isn't good enough for playable framerates in BF1 @ 1080p w/ med. settings
5) 16GB of RAM is too much (lolwut?)
6) SSDs aren't any better than HDDs. (Even our dad, who blames computer games for his lack of grandchildren, had a few words to say about THAT one.)

I'm lost for words...

I don't think they all do, at least not when I checked. The G4560 seems exceptional in this regard.

Edit : okay, maybe almost all of them do, but the G4400, for one, does not. Caveat Emptor.

I feel with you.

G4400 = Skylake. Intel's naming scheme for Celeron/Pentiums is even more confusing then their Cores. Only way to tell them apart is which HD graphics they use (HD5xx = Skylake, HD6xx = Kaby Lake). Mix in the Atom based, and you're in for a really fun time. F.x. the difference between a Celeron 3050 and 3350... (it's way more then first, or a casual, glance would tell you: 3050 = Braswell, 3350 = Apollo Lake)

 

[cbn]

Virtual Larry,

Since custom PCs can be a very personal thing, I would (edit: also) consider offering some kind of custom build service.

This way if a person wants a Ryzen 1600 (or whatever) and some specific type of case or video card you can do that for them without carrying the parts (or all the parts).

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Virtual Larry,

Since custom PCs can be a very personal thing, I would consider offering some kind of custom build service.

This way if a person wants a Ryzen 1600 (or whatever) and some specific type of case or video card you can do that for them without carrying the parts (or all the parts).

You misunderstand the situation, I think. VL isn't really interested in running an effective business, he's just trying to self-finance his hobby - his "profit" usually ends up buying a rig or two for a local library or something.

Not selling the G4560 rigs means he has no money for Ryzen APUs in the fall.

 

[cbn]

See my edit in post #20.

Hopefully that clears things up.

 

[cbn]

Regarding the original question in the opening post,

I do think G4560 is a good CPU.....but also remember that is a CPU that can't be overclocked like G3258 and G4400.

So a person can get the exact same performance from a pre-built as they can with DIY.

This, in contrast, to Ryzen or unlocked Intel processors where DIY is still able to offer something something extra in the form of overclocking.

 

[cbn]

Last night I was watching this video and couldn't but think this is one archetype of a person that could use Virtual Larry's help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDI6ZBAcNYE

(Very smart guy with great creativity and appreciation for powerful hardware watch his videos..... but notice what he says in this part of the video.)

So individual with need for a good workstation, not just a gaming machine.

 

[VirtualLarry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8psbsnbD78
This was the following video for me. Slick, professional, triple TitanX rig, with an NV theme.