Ryan Medicare privatization helps Democrat win heavily Republican congressional seat

[LegendKiller]

You still don't understand. The Entire world GDP is insufficient to cover the unfunded liability of medicare alone.

I wasn't aware we had to pay the unfunded liability today, next year, or even in the next 5 years in total.

 

[ElFenix]

I wasn't aware we had to pay the unfunded liability today, next year, or even in the next 5 years in total.

a lot of people seem to think you have to cash out all your retirement funds at the same time as well

 

[Portly Penguin]

The reason health care is so damned expensive is because of the government. People who propose further nationalizing the health care industry fail to take that into account.

How do people believe this shit? You realize there dozens of other rich, capitalist democracies in the world right? And every single one of them has achieved universal healthcare, while also spending significantly less per capita than we do? That is the number one reason why health care will never be fixed in our country. We have this ridiculous "AMURRRIKA IS #1" mentality and refuse to even look at what other countries have done to solve problems that we are unable to solve.

As for how other countries have achieved universal healthcare, its usually either non-profit health insurance (either run by the government, or heavily regulated) or price controls. Of course this can never happen in America because if it were even suggested by a politician, all of his rivals would drag out the Socialist Boogeyman to scare their ignorant constituency out of voting for them.

There is a good FrontLine documentary called "Sick Around The World" where a reporter travels to several other first world countries and interviews politicians about how their country's healthcare system works. It's shocking to see other country's politicians talking in real terms about the pros and cons of their system, rather than parroting hyperbolic talking points like all of our politicians do.

 

[Throckmorton]

Sure they do. What they don't have is health insurance, but they do have health coverage. Don't all ERs have to treat everyone who comes in, or at least stabilize them?

Try getting fucking cancer treatment at an ER. A poster on city-data had a mother who was about to die because she was refused treatment by Texas hospitals and couldn't get Medicaid because she wasn't a state resident long enough. You don't get treated even if you can't pay. What do you think this is, Cuba?

 

[Throckmorton]

The amusing thing about this election is that the Democrats just pulled billions out of Medicare but are still able to scare people about Republicans who want to steal their Medicare.

Smartest thing for the Pubbies would be to let Medicare & Medicaid crash before doing anything about them.

Billions out of Medicare... you're talking about the subsidy to private insurance companies? How the fuck does that make sense? It's like having a bus system, but paying people to drive their own cars. And then you cut the subsidy to people driving their own cars and Republicans say "YOU'RE CUTTING THE BUS BUDGET". That's asinine.

 

[woolfe9999]

You still don't understand. The Entire world GDP is insufficient to cover the unfunded liability of medicare alone.

That's quite a statement. How much is the "unfunded liability of medicare" and how much is the total world GDP? I assume since you're making this statement that you have those numbers so that we can openly compare them. Maybe I don't understand what "unfunded liability" means here. How many years is that projected over?

- wolf

 

[Patranus]

Gotta do something about Medicare.
The GOP is the only one throwing out ideas.
The Democrats are sitting on their hands.

In 1960 when Medicare rolled around the average life expectancy was ~65.
The problem is that the eligibility age doesn't adjust like inflation.

 

[QuantumPion]

That's quite a statement. How much is the "unfunded liability of medicare" and how much is the total world GDP? I assume since you're making this statement that you have those numbers so that we can openly compare them. Maybe I don't understand what "unfunded liability" means here. How many years is that projected over?

- wolf

http://www.google.com/search?q=world+gdp

http://www.google.com/search?q=medicare+unfunded+liability

 

[Craig234]

It is a special election which means its results can't be used as an indicator of national trends.

LOL, no, that's not what it means. Yes, they can.

But just to show you aren't just wrong but propagandizing as usual, now link for us your post saying the Scott Brown win of the Ted Kennedy seat wasn't any 'indicator'.

We'll wait.

Oh, you can't, because you think it IS an indicator when it fits your partisan side.

Too many variables in effect to suggest that this is a sign that the Republicans are falling apart or that Democrats are going to retake the house next fall.

No one has made that prediction one way or another I've seen. It's simply facts that the American people overwhelmingly (70's %) oppose the Republican position here, and this election shows that Democrats who run on it can get a big advantage on Republicans *among Republican voters* by doing so.

Make no mistake, Republicans are running scared, and facing the Senate vote Reid is going to force for just this reason.

The Senate leadership has already said they 'will not whip Senators how to vote on the bill' - when's the last time you saw that position from them?

Watch for Republicans to back off this big time - I think it's likely they will pursue a more vague 'Medicare reform discussion' and demand Democrats agree to participate.

Then they can attack Democrats for not doing so and change their line from the destruction of Medicare with inadequate vouchers, to just 'we have a deficit!'

Plus the debate next year will be about the economy and not Ryan's medicare plan.

Ya, just like this election wasn't about Medicare. Ads pointing out Republican votes to destroy Medicare will remind voters.

 

[Craig234]

Gotta do something about Medicare.
The GOP is the only one throwing out ideas.
The Democrats are sitting on their hands.

In 1960 when Medicare rolled around the average life expectancy was ~65.
The problem is that the eligibility age doesn't adjust like inflation.

Nancy Pelosi explained the Democrats have a plan. It's called Medicare.

“It is a flag we’ve planted that we will protect and defend. We have a plan. It’s called Medicare.”...

Asked to clarify what she meant, and to detail what sort of changes she’d be open to, Pelosi insisted that any claims she could support cuts in the program are wrong. “No benefits cuts,” she said flatly. Pelosi added that Dems have already put on the table the type of reform they should continue advocating for: The Affordable Care Act.

“We gave the blueprint for how we strengthen Medicare in the Affordable Care Act,” Pelosi said, a plan which is still “ripening” and “which does not reduce benefits. It lowers costs to taxpayers, the deficit, and beneficiaries.” She said the only type of Medicare cuts she’s open to are extracting savings via bureaucratic and pharmecutical reforms that don’t touch benefits.

Democrats are for *reforms* of Medicare - which include allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices, a correction long overdue.

Republicans have always - though not always admitted it - been for abolishing it. They just hid it more before this radical ideologue Paul Ryan's bill.

 

[Craig234]

That's quite a statement. How much is the "unfunded liability of medicare" and how much is the total world GDP? I assume since you're making this statement that you have those numbers so that we can openly compare them. Maybe I don't understand what "unfunded liability" means here. How many years is that projected over?

- wolf

He's mixing apples and oranges - he's not looking at one year of Medicare, but he is looking at one year of GDP. No one's saying Medicare reforms aren't needed.

 

[Craig234]

How do people believe this shit? You realize there dozens of other rich, capitalist democracies in the world right? And every single one of them has achieved universal healthcare, while also spending significantly less per capita than we do? That is the number one reason why health care will never be fixed in our country. We have this ridiculous "AMURRRIKA IS #1" mentality and refuse to even look at what other countries have done to solve problems that we are unable to solve.

As for how other countries have achieved universal healthcare, its usually either non-profit health insurance (either run by the government, or heavily regulated) or price controls. Of course this can never happen in America because if it were even suggested by a politician, all of his rivals would drag out the Socialist Boogeyman to scare their ignorant constituency out of voting for them.

There is a good FrontLine documentary called "Sick Around The World" where a reporter travels to several other first world countries and interviews politicians about how their country's healthcare system works. It's shocking to see other country's politicians talking in real terms about the pros and cons of their system, rather than parroting hyperbolic talking points like all of our politicians do.

Yes, and that documentary helped show that universal healthcare is not utopia. It has problems. It's just a big improvement to our private insurance system.

You might say, 'why don't we try to select what works best from the different systems'.

One of the countries examined did just that - and still had issues. The budget is still a political issue, and underfunding it still is a problem.

 

[Craig234]

The problem isn't income taxes being too low. Salaried income is already taxed enough. It's capital gains and sh*t like carried interest which isn't taxed appropriately. There's an entire investor class that is not paying a high enough effective tax rate when compared with salaried workers.

Brencat, we disagree on various issues, but on this one, it's good to see someone on the right who is being rational rather than blindly ideological.

I wonder if you would agree that many on the right are childlike in their approach to these issues, reacting to, say, a capital gains tax increase like a 2 year old to broccoli.

That's simply getting informed about the massive passive wealth and income.

 

[Craig234]

Oh and as for this NY election - apparently there was a Democrat operative running as a Tea Party candidate that siphoned 10% of the republican vote off. If it weren't for that, the republican would have won. More voter fraud courtesy of the DNC - yet further evidence that the only way liberalism wins is by force or cheating.

QuantumPion continuing to get it wrong.

8%, taking votes from both candidates.

Earlier in the election, Jack Davis was polling 15-20% before Republicans (like Rove) poured in big ad money to attack Davis, driving him down to where he got 8%.

Funny, with Davis falling about 10% because those ads worked to hurt him, the Democrat went *up* a bit.

The Republicans are trying to hide from their own members how harmful this issue is to them, and tried to use Davis as an excuse.

 

[Craig234]

The amusing thing about this election is that the Democrats just pulled billions out of Medicare but are still able to scare people about Republicans who want to steal their Medicare.

Smartest thing for the Pubbies would be to let Medicare & Medicaid crash before doing anything about them.

What benefits were cut? When Democrats (hopefully) let the government negotiate drug prices, they can 'cut Medicare' hundreds of billions - with no loss of benefits.

What you suggest is, sadly, plausible as a Republican plan - BLOCK Democrats' admittedly needed reforms of Medicare to cause a 'crisis'.

That's their playbook, as shown with Scott Brown who gave the rich a huge tax cut to trigger a 'crisis' to use as an excuse to cut the unions.

 

[Red Dawn]

Oh and as for this NY election - apparently there was a Democrat operative running as a Tea Party candidate that siphoned 10% of the republican vote off. If it weren't for that, the republican would have won. More voter fraud courtesy of the DNC - yet further evidence that the only way liberalism wins is by force or cheating.

It couldn't be that the Republicans are also a bunch of clowns? Your theory of some kind of conspiracy seems to confirm that.

 

[boomerang]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJIC7kEq6kw&feature=player_embedded#at=71

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

And I raise you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGnE83A1Z4U

 

[Craig234]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJIC7kEq6kw&feature=player_embedded#at=71

Left out of Paul Ryan's description of his plan:

1. Replace $24,000 per person Medicare spending with a $15,000 voucher, asking the elderly to buy coverage in the marketplace - and pay the difference.

A difference that will be even more than the gap above.

2. Cut taxes on the rich by about the same amount cut from Medicare spending.

Summary: Massive wealth transfer from the public to the wealthy.

 

[JSt0rm]

Sure they do. What they don't have is health insurance, but they do have health coverage. Don't all ERs have to treat everyone who comes in, or at least stabilize them?

you fail

 

[boomerang]

And I raise you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGnE83A1Z4U

And such is the discourse in our nation.

Rather than work to reach an agreement that would sustain Medicare and ensure its solvency into the future, the Dem's would rather come up with juvenile ads like this with attempted scare tactics. The ad is BS, everyone knows it's BS, but this evidently is preferable to actually doing some hard work.

It's the sad state of our nation right now unfortunately. I hope you posted the ad as some form of comic relief and not as any form of honest discourse. I think you're too smart to actually believe that the solution to Medicare is to do nothing.

 

[Steeplerot]

And such is the discourse in our nation.

Rather than work to reach an agreement that would sustain Medicare and ensure its solvency into the future, the Dem's would rather come up with juvenile ads like this with attempted scare tactics. The ad is BS, everyone knows it's BS, but this evidently is preferable to actually doing some hard work.

It's the sad state of our nation right now unfortunately. I hope you posted the ad as some form of comic relief and not as any form of honest discourse. I think you're too smart to actually believe that the solution to Medicare is to do nothing.

Hilarious how these partisan righties go to no end to make liberals look like the antichrist to turn into weak blubbering children when confronted on their level.

Man up cowards. This is your bullshit you listen to on foxnews + talkradio right back in your face. Difference is there is at least a level of realism of the situation here instead of made up bullshit that fits your narrow crackpot idealogical views.

 

[Craig234]

And such is the discourse in our nation.

Rather than work to reach an agreement that would sustain Medicare and ensure its solvency into the future, the Dem's would rather come up with juvenile ads like this with attempted scare tactics. The ad is BS, everyone knows it's BS, but this evidently is preferable to actually doing some hard work.

It's the sad state of our nation right now unfortunately. I hope you posted the ad as some form of comic relief and not as any form of honest discourse. I think you're too smart to actually believe that the solution to Medicare is to do nothing.

Ya, I like the 'discourse' you show in responding to my post. Oh, wait, you dodged it.

You're so dishonest, attacking the *Dems* as the party who don't want to 'fix things', when they're the ones who worked on the healthcare plan (as flawed as it was, to get around some of the massive industry opposition and to get the 60 votes needed to pass with the Republican abuse of the filibuster), while Republicans want to kill it.

The ad may be dramatic but its basic point is right on.

Fact is, many senior citizens would literally lose their lives because of the Ryan plan if it passed - the ad is literally correct on that point, however you want to ignore it.

 

[Steeplerot]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJIC7kEq6kw&feature=player_embedded#at=71

Corporate propaganda at its finest complete withGOP lackey...with something disturbing running out of the corner of his mouth. Forgot to wipe up after the Koch?

Whatever happened to the good old.days like Ronald Reagan in fake doctors suit telling people pall malls keep you.from having a sore throat.map smoke!

At least we all knew he was a stooge up front. You all cannot even be upfront about being corporate stooges anymore. Sad state.

 

[Fern]

The bulk of Medicare (and Mediciad etc) is the underlying problem of health Care.

Until we get down to those underlying problems (lack of standards in treatment, unneccesary proceedures and tests etc) no amount of tinkering with Medicare, or any other HI for that matter, will have a real impact.

Fern