Ryan Budget

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,313
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Wow, balancing the budget on the backs of the poorest Americans and not touching the sacrosanct military budget. How ingenius, one wonders why NOBODY thought of that before. Lol!


WASHINGTON — Representative Paul D. Ryan of Wisconsin on Tuesday will lay out a tough, election-year budget that he says will come into balance by 2024, in large part through steep cuts to Medicaid and food stamps and the full repeal of President Obama’s health care law, just as millions begin to see its benefits.
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In his plan, military spending through 2024 would actually rise by $483 billion over the spending caps established in the 2011 Budget Control Act “consistent with America’s military goals and strategies,” while nondefense spending at Congress’s annual discretion would be cut by $791 billion below those strict limits.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/02/us/politics/paul-ryan-budget.html?_r=0
 

Newell Steamer

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2014
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Hey, feeding poor Americans doesn't win wars,.. unless these poor Americans are in the army that is.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,039
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Let's start everything off with a non-starter.

BRILLIANT!!!

What I always find funny is that by 'full repeal of the ACA' they mean 'keep all the cost savings and taxes while removing all the benefits'.

Who takes this clown seriously?
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,329
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What I always find funny is that by 'full repeal of the ACA' they mean 'keep all the cost savings and taxes while removing all the benefits'.

Who takes this clown seriously?
He's a fucking RINO
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,224
14,912
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What I always find funny is that by 'full repeal of the ACA' they mean 'keep all the cost savings and taxes while removing all the benefits'.

Who takes this clown seriously?

They'll be in here shortly;)
 

Ban Bot

Senior member
Jun 1, 2010
796
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No one likes the word "Budget." Especially if it means more revenue (taxes) and/or decreased spending (fewer services). Unfortunately, the US Government continues to accrue astronomical amounts of long-term debt for benefits today. This is unsustainable. But the majority of the voting population is OK with deferring payment for their current government services; they are happy to collectively pay less into the system for what they reap and are content deferring this financial burden to another generation which will receive fewer benefits but increased financial burden.

Like/Dislike the Ryan plan (or any other plan) the bottom line is the lack of relationship between revenue and spending is a disaster long in the making by both parties. And you live in a fantasy world if you believe that the budget issues can be resolved without adjustment to all major budget consumers, including Social and Health Care (and Defense). It doesn't take a financial wizard to know that at some point the owner of the debt dictates terms--either the US reform their budgets or, eventually, others will. Just ask countries in Europe experiencing austerity.

Ps. I don't endorse any specific plan or have a solution other than increase revenue and decrease spending to create a balanced budget with the goal to first halting debt and eventually reducing debt to a serviceable level. Sadly, think if the US had no debt. The hundreds of billions paid in interest on debt annually would go a very, very long way to resolve issues like health care. While we need closing of idiotic loopholes that allow legal sheltering and tax avoidance those alone won't solve the issues the US faces.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,039
48,032
136
No one likes the word "Budget." Especially if it means more revenue (taxes) and/or decreased spending (fewer services). Unfortunately, the US Government continues to accrue astronomical amounts of long-term debt for benefits today. This is unsustainable. But the majority of the voting population is OK with deferring payment for their current government services; they are happy to collectively pay less into the system for what they reap and are content deferring this financial burden to another generation which will receive fewer benefits but increased financial burden.

Like/Dislike the Ryan plan (or any other plan) the bottom line is the lack of relationship between revenue and spending is a disaster long in the making by both parties. And you live in a fantasy world if you believe that the budget issues can be resolved without adjustment to all major budget consumers, including Social and Health Care (and Defense). It doesn't take a financial wizard to know that at some point the owner of the debt dictates terms--either the US reform their budgets or, eventually, others will. Just ask countries in Europe experiencing austerity.

Ps. I don't endorse any specific plan or have a solution other than increase revenue and decrease spending to create a balanced budget with the goal to first halting debt and eventually reducing debt to a serviceable level. Sadly, think if the US had no debt. The hundreds of billions paid in interest on debt annually would go a very, very long way to resolve issues like health care. While we need closing of idiotic loopholes that allow legal sheltering and tax avoidance those alone won't solve the issues the US faces.

The comparison to Europe is not a good one as those countries do not control the currency their debt is in.

Also, ever increasing debt is definitely sustainable so long as it happens more slowly than GDP growth.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
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It doesnt really propose cutting that much (in addition to the fact that DoD spending is already ridiculously high). 5 cabinet positions are more than enough and federal agencies needed to be cut by at least 80%. and if the "tax reform" he has planned is the same as his Path to Prosperity plan, then it would be a net tax increase.

I do support reducing the top marginal rate but the bottom marginal rate is the same (i.e., too high) unless it is only on taxable income from salaries/wages, if there was a 100% tax credit for each negative medical outcome insurance policy purchased, and if deductions for all medical expenses and all shelter expenses are allowed. Also, the u.s.g. needs to repeal legal tender and the ban on private minting. Then, 25% corporate tax rate is still too way too high (after all, 25% is ~8% higher than the OECD average of ~23%)... 15% is sufficient. All quotas need to be repealed as do all tariffs and all taxes on firearms. Finally, all payroll taxes/fees and benefits should be optional (i.e., if one chooses not to pay SS taxes, then they no longer have an SS number and can never receive an SS check and if one doesnt want to pay medicare fees, then they cant receive medicare).
 

Ban Bot

Senior member
Jun 1, 2010
796
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The comparison to Europe is not a good one as those countries do not control the currency their debt is in.

Serious question: Are you suggesting the manipulation of currency that causes devaluation of currently held assets? If yes, whose?

Also, ever increasing debt is definitely sustainable so long as it happens more slowly than GDP growth.

So you are saying you agree with me because we are not talking theory but actual applicability. RE: Performance of US Government debt as a percentage of GDP.

800px-US_Federal_Debt_as_Percent_of_GDP_by_President.jpg
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,039
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Serious question: Are you suggesting the manipulation of currency that causes devaluation of currently held assets? If yes, whose?

No, I'm saying that there is a large actual difference in the effects of debt held in a currency you print vs. debt not held in a currency you print. Those who print their own currency are not nearly so vulnerable to runs on their debt, they have a lender of last resort, etc.

See: Greece vs. Japan.

So you are saying you agree with me because we are not talking theory but actual applicability. RE:

No, I'm saying that ever increasing US debts can absolutely be sustainable so long as they average out to be equal to or less than GDP growth over a given time period. US actions over the last few years have been good in that we ramped up our debt in a time of economic depression. Our biggest failure was not ramping up debt ENOUGH, not that we did too much.
 

BUnit1701

Senior member
May 1, 2013
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No, I'm saying that ever increasing US debts can absolutely be sustainable so long as they average out to be equal to or less than GDP growth over a given time period. US actions over the last few years have been good in that we ramped up our debt in a time of economic depression. Our biggest failure was not ramping up debt ENOUGH, not that we did too much.

So, how many trillions did the Wall St. banks need for our hostage economy to be released?
 

Ban Bot

Senior member
Jun 1, 2010
796
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No, I'm saying that there is a large actual difference in the effects of debt held in a currency you print vs. debt not held in a currency you print. Those who print their own currency are not nearly so vulnerable to runs on their debt, they have a lender of last resort, etc.

See: Greece vs. Japan.

And yet Japan is in a horrible position and Abenomics has done "wonders" to turn things around. The refrain will be, "It wasn't enacted with enough time and enough spending" instead of a more sensible, "Never should have gotten to this point to begin with."

No, I'm saying that ever increasing US debts can absolutely be sustainable so long as they average out to be equal to or less than GDP growth over a given time period. US actions over the last few years have been good in that we ramped up our debt in a time of economic depression. Our biggest failure was not ramping up debt ENOUGH, not that we did too much.

In 1980 when Reagan took office it was sitting at about 32% and now stands over 100%. Too wide of a sample? Since 2000 when Bush took office it has risen from 55% to over 100%.

You stated, "increasing US debts can absolutely be sustainable so long as they average out to be equal to or less than GDP growth over a given time period."

In both data sets the ratio is increasing.

Of course I can read between the lines and our economic concerns and approach are quite different. Unfortunately, aggressive economists who disregard unbalanced spending and increasing debt burden won't be footing the bill. Of course there is always a politician to blame, right?

Sorry, I am not trying to be snarky and will let bygones be bygones after this post, but IMO the popular paths encouraged by some quarters of economists is very high risk (impact vital services and benefits) as they are highly dependent upon political control. I don't want to leave something as important as SS's success or failure dependent upon whether both parties can get along (they cannot). Yes, that means not leveraging every ounce of economic muscle and relying on a pedestrian, more conservative approach that is lower risk. This isn't pointing a finger at any one party as the chart I posted shows both parties have had an equal hand in the jar. But a lot of this comes down to philosophical issues: Should budgets be balanced? Should there be spending caps? To what extent should the government be involved in services (more or less?) and how should these be assessed to the citizenry (taxes, service fees, or other?)

Personally, as an observation of human nature, my strong preference is balanced budgets that force humans to see a correlation between the benefits and services garnered and the costs incurred. I think it is fundamentally flawed and unfair to burden future generations. Of course this is great politics as everyone "paid" for their service or benefit and the threat of change is a direct affront to these people (as it should be) but is based on the misunderstanding that they invested anything. It is a vicious cycle that moves more and more of the private life and wealth into the public domain where a slight margin of a popularity contest puts unqualified people in control.

RE: Ryan. Putting aside the plan specifics, what are the many bullet point negatives to moving to a balanced budget where outflow must match inflow?

Let's say you could even adjust inflow/outflow where outflow = (inflow + debt/%GDP) to allow spending at a fixed rate of newly accrued debt in relation to GFP.

I would be very interested to see the list of concerns of such a model.