Russian Soldiers steal credit cards of Polish crash victims

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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From the wtf, this country is hopeless file:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ing-Polish-air-crash-victims-credit-card.html

The Russian Federal Investigation Committee of the prosecutor's office said four conscripts had been detained for allegedly using the credit card of Andrzej Przewoznik, a leading historian who was killed in the accident.


"Today, four soldiers have been charged with theft," the committee said in a statement. "All four suspects have confessed and are actively co-operating with investigators." The suspects had, apparently, helped secure the crash site just after President Lech Kaczynski's plane had plunged into woodland near Smolensk airport in western Russia on April 10.

Polish investigators said that in the two days following the tragedy Mr Prezwoznik's credit card had been used for 11 payments, the first within 80 minutes of the crash. They added that six attempts had been made to withdraw cash on one of his other credit cards.
Russia's confirmation of the arrests comes as a u-turn from Moscow, which had earlier dismissed Polish claims that it had arrested at least three men as "cynical".

The scandal surrounding the theft has cast a shadow over the spirit of rapprochement between Poland and Russia spawned by the accident.
In the wake of the crash Poland's government heaped praise on Russia's rapid response to the tragedy, easing tensions that had bedevilled Moscow-Warsaw relations since the end of the Cold War.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100607/ap_on_re_eu/eu_poland_plane_crash_theft

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/07/polish-plane-crash-looting

Heard about this yesterday when my GF found the story in her home country newspaper (Latvia). Some details are conflicting among reports.

What the hell? How does Russia ever hope to be relevant when this kind of corruption and idiocy runs rampant at every level?

No chance in hell Russian authorities would have done anything if it weren't reported--hell, they even denied it on the initial charge.

Sorry, I guess I don't have any substantial commentary beyond "Russia is (remains) one fucked-up place."
 
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cubeless

Diamond Member
Sep 17, 2001
4,295
1
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ummm... do a quick google to find the reports of stuff disappearing from stiffs/patients in our own fucked up place...

the baser side of human nature doesn't stop at any border...
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,783
31,185
146
ummm... do a quick google to find the reports of stuff disappearing from stiffs/patients in our own fucked up place...

the baser side of human nature doesn't stop at any border...

true enough. But that tends to happen with orderlies and the lower rungs of the support staff--should I say...a very different class. Like if your car is ever impounded, you can be 100% certain that some worthless dickhole at county is going to try and break into your car and steal your radio.

These are soldiers, representing a powerful state, involved in an extremely serious international situation. How are you going to steal a credit card or two from the corpses of these officials, a country with which you have a tenuous relationship, and start charging them within 2 hours? serious wtf.
 

fallout man

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2007
1,787
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I read this story yesterday and lolled.

Way to pickpocket corpses, champs. Disgusting.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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Still very hard to make this into a lasting international incident or a source of friction, a few Russian soldiers behaved badly and Russia responded quickly and fixed the problem on their own. At best a small Russian embarrassment.
 

Noobtastic

Banned
Jul 9, 2005
3,721
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Still very hard to make this into a lasting international incident or a source of friction, a few Russian soldiers behaved badly and Russia responded quickly and fixed the problem on their own. At best a small Russian embarrassment.

substitute russia with israel and you're post would bit much different.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
People are people, hell, your friendly waitress could steal your credit card info at a restaurant. It does happen, does not make it right though.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,783
31,185
146
Still very hard to make this into a lasting international incident or a source of friction, a few Russian soldiers behaved badly and Russia responded quickly and fixed the problem on their own. At best a small Russian embarrassment.

Well, Russia's first response was to deny Polish claims of theft, calling such claims "cynical."

No, I don't think this will be a lasting international incident, b/c for 90% of those in the west who simply aren't aware, this is just the normal state of things between the two nations, and between Russia and ever other formerly-occupied soviet territory. "Little things" like this happen all the damn time, but it's often ignored. I guess I never understood why these kind of incidents should be considered normal diplomatic relations?

All the more insulting was that the crash happened during a trip that commemorated Russian atrocities at Katyn, marking the first official recognition, and "apology" by Putin of the events. (The long-lasting cover-up of the truth as equal a tragedy as the massacre)

I think Russia responded quickly and in good faith to the plane crash, handling the events with an astonishing amount of decorum and grace. But to have "little things" like this--a testament to the daily reality of Russian affairs--attached to the event, does nothing to thaw tensions between such bitter rivals.

Their first response was not only denial, but blaming the accusers. They simply don't know any other way.

I worry that until Russian officials are called to task on such behavior repeatedly, and in an international theater, this kind of shit will simply continue. The people that really suffer are the citizens--corruption remains a daily necessity of life b/c there is no real public punishment of violators. If you complain, or bring this to the news, you're just as likely to end up dead.

post-soviet my ass.
 

Trianon

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2000
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Well, Russia's first response was to deny Polish claims of theft, calling such claims "cynical."

No, I don't think this will be a lasting international incident, b/c for 90% of those in the west who simply aren't aware, this is just the normal state of things between the two nations, and between Russia and ever other formerly-occupied soviet territory. "Little things" like this happen all the damn time, but it's often ignored. I guess I never understood why these kind of incidents should be considered normal diplomatic relations?

All the more insulting was that the crash happened during a trip that commemorated Russian atrocities at Katyn, marking the first official recognition, and "apology" by Putin of the events. (The long-lasting cover-up of the truth as equal a tragedy as the massacre)

I think Russia responded quickly and in good faith to the plane crash, handling the events with an astonishing amount of decorum and grace. But to have "little things" like this--a testament to the daily reality of Russian affairs--attached to the event, does nothing to thaw tensions between such bitter rivals.

Their first response was not only denial, but blaming the accusers. They simply don't know any other way.

I worry that until Russian officials are called to task on such behavior repeatedly, and in an international theater, this kind of shit will simply continue. The people that really suffer are the citizens--corruption remains a daily necessity of life b/c there is no real public punishment of violators. If you complain, or bring this to the news, you're just as likely to end up dead.

post-soviet my ass.

Well, if you read the story, the blame was leveled at wrong ppl (OMON) at first, and the response came from ministry that was not aware of the situation... Polish side actually later apologized for making hasty statement and blaming wrong people. Military discovered that soldiers had stolen cards in their posession and was performing internal investigation 4 days after the fact, four scumbags (3 of them with previous criminal record) would've been thrown in jail nevertheless, but full investigation was not over yet, so it didn't make it to the press. I am not saying it was handled perfectly, but far from "Russian coverup " you imply. Russia is very sensitive about this crash and they are trying to be as open about everything as they ever were...
 

gevorg

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2004
5,070
1
0
OP, take off your "Cold War" goggles, your russophobic arguments are silly. This is human nature and it happens everywhere, including USA (remember Katrina?).
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,783
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OP, take off your "Cold War" goggles, your russophobic arguments are silly. This is human nature and it happens everywhere, including USA (remember Katrina?).

I'm not afraid of Russia taking over, or commies under the bed or anything. I suppose it's after knowing my GF, who grew up under occupation, and having visited her home country and speaking with her family, seeing the remaining, bitter occupying class..it really changes one's perspective.

I always grew up the rebellious "what's all this bullshit cold war stuff" type of kid. I certainly didn't think it mattered. I was like "hey, Communism is kinda cool."

well, I learned how fucking wrong I was. It's the utter lack of apology, the nature of some of the true believers that remain in power, that continue to believe the bullshit that was so obviously a lie, and still force that lifestyle on others.

it actually breaks my heart that no one still seems to care that this kind of shit still goes on, relatively ignored in the national news and the amount of propaganda that still pervades. Of course, just look at how Putin and his ilk handle the media, then you might start to realize that you're the naive fool.

Honestly, it seems like they've handled this situation better than anyone would expect of them. It's difficult to blame one official or another for something that some criminals did under their noses--but you have to understand that this is, in many ways, very much a cultural value to large swathes of impoverished, disenfranchised young Russians. Corruption is how anything gets done ot this day. Just spend some time over there.
 

Trianon

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2000
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I'm not afraid of Russia taking over, or commies under the bed or anything. I suppose it's after knowing my GF, who grew up under occupation, and having visited her home country and speaking with her family, seeing the remaining, bitter occupying class..it really changes one's perspective.

I always grew up the rebellious "what's all this bullshit cold war stuff" type of kid. I certainly didn't think it mattered. I was like "hey, Communism is kinda cool."

well, I learned how fucking wrong I was. It's the utter lack of apology, the nature of some of the true believers that remain in power, that continue to believe the bullshit that was so obviously a lie, and still force that lifestyle on others.

it actually breaks my heart that no one still seems to care that this kind of shit still goes on, relatively ignored in the national news and the amount of propaganda that still pervades. Of course, just look at how Putin and his ilk handle the media, then you might start to realize that you're the naive fool.

Honestly, it seems like they've handled this situation better than anyone would expect of them. It's difficult to blame one official or another for something that some criminals did under their noses--but you have to understand that this is, in many ways, very much a cultural value to large swathes of impoverished, disenfranchised young Russians. Corruption is how anything gets done ot this day. Just spend some time over there.

Well, if you think it's THAT MUCH DIFFERENT over here, how about this argument: story with Pat Tillman, renditions, MSM economy propaganda, these are just first things that pop out on my mind... I believe Russia should be called out when they screw up, but this was not one of those times for a change, and few scummbags don't define a nation(nobody says that US is vile country because of Jeffrey Dehmer. And instead of distractions I think ppl in the US should concentrate their attention on what is happening at home. I can definitely notice the trend and I am not liking where it's going. And cut the crap about "Marxist commies", in many aspects Russia is more "free-market, survival of the fittest" than the US. Not really related, but I like this eyeopener list:
10 points of Communism and how they are reconciled with our non-strayed constitution.

Article 2 is that there should be a progressive tax. We have that.
Article 4 is that we confiscate the property of rebels. We do that.
Article 5 is centralization of credit in the hands of the state through creation of a national bank (Fed). We do that.
Article 6 is centralization of communication and transportation in the hands of the state (FCC, DOT). We have that.
Article 7 is state control of soil management. We do that.
Article 9 is combining manufacturing with agriculture to free the farmers to seek other employment, abolishing the distinctions between town and country. We've done that and we have suburbs.
Article 10 is free education in public schools and the abolition of child labor. We do that and, outside the Disney Channel, we hardly have any child labor.

So other than 1, 3 and 8, you are living in a Communist Worker's Paradise.

Article 1 is the abolition of property ownership. That's in progress as we speak for many of our fellow citizens(no wealth possessed, good part of citizenry irrecoverably buried in debt).
Article 3 is the abolition of all right of inheritance. Well we know how people feel about the "death tax."
Article 8 is equal liablity of all to labor. In other words, everyone does their share. That's a tough call but most of us still work.
 

PricklyPete

Lifer
Sep 17, 2002
14,582
162
106
ummm... do a quick google to find the reports of stuff disappearing from stiffs/patients in our own fucked up place...

the baser side of human nature doesn't stop at any border...

At least in soviet russia, the soldier will be properly punished! ;)
 

Albatross

Platinum Member
Jul 17, 2001
2,344
8
81
I'm not afraid of Russia taking over, or commies under the bed or anything. I suppose it's after knowing my GF, who grew up under occupation, and having visited her home country and speaking with her family, seeing the remaining, bitter occupying class..it really changes one's perspective.

I always grew up the rebellious "what's all this bullshit cold war stuff" type of kid. I certainly didn't think it mattered. I was like "hey, Communism is kinda cool."

well, I learned how fucking wrong I was. It's the utter lack of apology, the nature of some of the true believers that remain in power, that continue to believe the bullshit that was so obviously a lie, and still force that lifestyle on others.

it actually breaks my heart that no one still seems to care that this kind of shit still goes on, relatively ignored in the national news and the amount of propaganda that still pervades. Of course, just look at how Putin and his ilk handle the media, then you might start to realize that you're the naive fool.

Honestly, it seems like they've handled this situation better than anyone would expect of them. It's difficult to blame one official or another for something that some criminals did under their noses--but you have to understand that this is, in many ways, very much a cultural value to large swathes of impoverished, disenfranchised young Russians. Corruption is how anything gets done ot this day. Just spend some time over there.
It`s always good to see,at least once in a blue moon,an American who gets it:thumbsup:
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,247
45,446
136
Well, if you think it's THAT MUCH DIFFERENT over here, how about this argument: story with Pat Tillman, renditions, MSM economy propaganda, these are just first things that pop out on my mind... I believe Russia should be called out when they screw up, but this was not one of those times for a change, and few scummbags don't define a nation(nobody says that US is vile country because of Jeffrey Dehmer. And instead of distractions I think ppl in the US should concentrate their attention on what is happening at home. I can definitely notice the trend and I am not liking where it's going. And cut the crap about "Marxist commies", in many aspects Russia is more "free-market, survival of the fittest" than the US. Not really related, but I like this eyeopener list:

Well since every reporter that reports anything less than flattering about said government ends up having an "accident" or is gets shot to death in a totally random fashion I'm going to put myself out there and say yes, Russia is VERY different from the US.
 

Trianon

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2000
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Well since every reporter that reports anything less than flattering about said government ends up having an "accident" or is gets shot to death in a totally random fashion I'm going to put myself out there and say yes, Russia is VERY different from the US.

Strawman argument, and we are not talking about freedom of press here anyway.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,247
45,446
136
Strawman argument, and we are not talking about freedom of press here anyway.

The only reason we know about most of the stuff you posted as examples of how the US isn't a lot different directly relates to with having a free press, something Russia clearly does not have. There is probably a reason it was the 1st Amendment don't you think?

The argument is perfectly valid.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,783
31,185
146
Well, if you think it's THAT MUCH DIFFERENT over here, how about this argument: story with Pat Tillman, renditions, MSM economy propaganda, these are just first things that pop out on my mind... I believe Russia should be called out when they screw up, but this was not one of those times for a change, and few scummbags don't define a nation(nobody says that US is vile country because of Jeffrey Dehmer. And instead of distractions I think ppl in the US should concentrate their attention on what is happening at home. I can definitely notice the trend and I am not liking where it's going. And cut the crap about "Marxist commies", in many aspects Russia is more "free-market, survival of the fittest" than the US. Not really related, but I like this eyeopener list:

well, sentence one tells me you're smoking the pipe.

seriously, spend a mere week in a former occupied territory. rush over to St Petersburg for a day or two. Head down to Kiev if you must.

Again, I'm not talking about individuals, I'm talking about the survival of the "true believers" that really do think life was better in the CCCP, and yearn for such to return. Every country has its singular wackos.

I know people that work in these countries in federal anti-corruption departments, the type of offices that are established and are completely essential when states adopt an entirely new social and economic government. The type of stories that come out of these offices are mind boggling. Some sound simple--the acceptance that bribery is still necessary--"tipping" your doctor, for example--but really aren't. Tipping your doctor is actually illegal (it makes no sense for us in the US, or in Western Europe), but if you'd grown up under 60 years of occupation, that is simply how you live. To get bread, you bribe whoever you need to...This stuff was essential, and although unnecessary in these regions today, the idea that it is acceptable is still pervasive in the most rural areas.

Again, these two examples will probably sound very minor to the average westerner, but you have to understand the nature of corruption, how it's adoption and acceptance in all levels of society cripple an economy and devastate a social order. I think Russia is something like #7 in the UN list of most corrupt states? It's right behind Nigeria. LOLWTF.

and again, when our Government starts sanctioning the murder of journalists that it takes issue with, one might allow you to make such naively idiotic statements like: "if you think it's that much different over here."

I actually believe that one gains the type of understanding about Soviet communism and policy that you have from growing up educated as we have been--that the role of Stalin and Kruschev in the shaping of post-war 20th century isn't "that bad." That Stalin's atrocities are horribly, tragically brushed-over in our history books.

Frankly, the role that US has played in aquiescing to post-war Soviet policy, simply to "play nice" with a pseudo ally, and not anger our true enemy, was absolutely wrong. Millions suffered and died b/c it was deemed necessary to ignore the movements they were making on their continent, and through eastern Europe.

This isn't an anti-Russia thing, it's an anti-Soviet thing. It's calling to task our role in kowtowing to a known international thug (not that the Korean engagement should be considered kowtowing, mind you ;)), and the unwillingness of the current pro-Soviet hawks (Putin and his regime of true believers, and those simple and naive enough to accept him) to apologize for and accept their country's role in past Soviet atrocities.