Russian lawmaker warns against sex w/foreigners during World Cup: 'If it's another race, it's worse

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realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
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Thanks, but I'd rather see studies than treat certain assertions made in this thread as assumed fact. Facts should always come before opinions.


Okay

http://sites.tufts.edu/inclusivecommerceblog/2013/05/16/surveys-gone-bad-when-yes-means-no/

imrs.php


Noice that the US is darker blue than most in Europe.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
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But it depends which part of Europe you are talking about. I don't think that kind of overt racism is particularly more common in Western Europe than in the US. And in the east, historically, racism against black people has not been the most problematic form of racism, simply because it remained largely theoretical. Unlike anti-Semitism or inter-ethnic hatreds.

And on a similar note, to say 'Europe is not as diverse' is a bit simplistic - because the very definition of 'diversity' depends on what you think are significant differences. Those categories are not set in stone, they are themselves socially determined. The many prejudices and antagonisms that have existed in European countries have been between groups that would not be considered different races in US terms. Anything can be viewed as diverse or not, just by changing what categories you use to decide on difference. Societies that appear homogeneous to outsiders can be massively diverse from the perspective of those within them, and can be teeming with conflict between groups as well.

Edit - in fact, at least one kind of racism seemed to be _more_ present in the US than the UK, at least for a brief period.

Namely, I remember when the Simpsons first appeared decades ago, wondering how on earth they could get away with the Apu character, who in a UK context seemed straight out of the cheap racial stereotypes of the 1970s. Letterman had a weird 'comedy south asian' guy on his show as well I recall. All of that would have seemed embarrassingly retro in a UK show (but would have fitted in perfectly to 1970s Britain).

I concluded it was just that South Asians in the US hadn't had the same rough time they had here so were more forgiving of such stuff and weren't bothered by it. But now it seems in fact it was just a question of time, as it seems the Apu character has become contentious in the US after all, just 20 years late.

Conversely, I've winced at depictions of Mexicans in the UK that would have started a storm of protest in the US, but here nobody is very conscious of 'racism against Mexicans'. It just doesn't show up on the radar of offense. It's kind of a mirror mirage of the Apu thing, really.

I said less diverse by country. If you look at country by country you see they are a lot more homogeneous than the us in terms of race.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,208
28,910
136
This is the bestest gorilla marketing campaign evar! What she said is, "blah blah blah". What men heard was, "If you come to the World Cup in Russia, Russian women will have sex with you."
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,633
8,521
136
I said less diverse by country. If you look at country by country you see they are a lot more homogeneous than the us in terms of race.

You aren't taking in what I'm saying. I know you said 'by country', where did I suggest otherwise? I'm saying that your statement is circular, because it depends on only considering what you define as 'racial difference'. That itself is culturally specific. The US categories of race are not the only possible forms of diversity. Countries, like India, say, or parts of Africa, that are all one 'race' are hugely, vastly, diverse.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,633
8,521
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And if you are going to embed that image, you should probably make clear that the page it's from is specifically pointing out that the data for India and Bangladesh is inverted, and thus a bit of a slander on those countries.
(Reminds me of the coding error that similarly inverted Gandhi's behaviour traits in one of the Civ games, turning him in to a nuke-crazed war-monger.)
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
This is the bestest gorilla marketing campaign evar! What she said is, "blah blah blah". What men heard was, "If you come to the World Cup in Russia, Russian women will have sex with you."

Just think of it as a golden opportunity for Russian sex workers...
 
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realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
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You aren't taking in what I'm saying. I know you said 'by country', where did I suggest otherwise? I'm saying that your statement is circular, because it depends on only considering what you define as 'racial difference'. That itself is culturally specific. The US categories of race are not the only possible forms of diversity. Countries, like India, say, or parts of Africa, that are all one 'race' are hugely, vastly, diverse.

But that is different. We are talking about racism and not prejudice in general. That would be too broad to compare here.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
And if you are going to embed that image, you should probably make clear that the page it's from is specifically pointing out that the data for India and Bangladesh is inverted, and thus a bit of a slander on those countries.
(Reminds me of the coding error that similarly inverted Gandhi's behaviour traits in one of the Civ games, turning him in to a nuke-crazed war-monger.)

It was updated I thought. They talked about how it was wrong and then updated so I expected that the image was updated too.

Either way, the point was about US vs Europe.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,633
8,521
136
But that is different. We are talking about racism and not prejudice in general. That would be too broad to compare here.

Well I thought we were talking about _diversity_. You were saying Europe has less diversity.

Also, even if you restrict it to 'race' the point remains - how 'race' is defined is itself culturally specific. Not everywhere uses, or historically used, the same ideas about 'race' as you are taking from the contemporary US.

Hell, I remember seeing an old quote from someone on one side in Northern Ireland declaring that the other lot are a different 'race'.

So it's questionable to say that European countries which have been a conflict-ridden ethnic patchwork for centuries, are not 'diverse', even in regard to race.

Anyway, I've lost track of what the point of this argument is now. Oh yeah, just that I don't accept that 'race' or 'racism' is a simple thing to compare across cultures and societies. And hence that when people claim this or that country is more racist than their own, whichever it is, it doesn't serve much useful purpose other than a distraction. And I say that even though I'd like to be able to smugly claim the UK is 'less racist' than Poland, say. I'm not sure there's really a lot of point in making the comparison, instead of putting the effort into doing something about the racism that does exist here and now.
 
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realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Well I thought we were talking about _diversity_. You were saying Europe has less diversity.

Also, even if you restrict it to 'race' the point remains - how 'race' is defined is itself culturally specific. Not everywhere uses, or historically used, the same ideas about 'race' as you are taking from the contemporary US.

Hell, I remember seeing an old quote from someone on one side in Northern Ireland declaring that the other lot are a different 'race'.

So it's questionable to say that European countries which have been a conflict-ridden ethnic patchwork for centuries, are not 'diverse', even in regard to race.

Anyway, I've lost track of what the point of this argument is now. Oh yeah, just that I don't accept that 'race' or 'racism' is a simple thing to compare across cultures and societies. And hence that when people claim this or that country is more racist than their own, whichever it is, it doesn't serve much useful purpose other than a distraction. And I say that even though I'd like to be able to smugly claim the UK is 'less racist' than Poland, say. I'm not sure there's really a lot of point in making the comparison, instead of putting the effort into doing something about the racism that does exist here and now.

Less diversity in terms of race.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
If one uses your particular, parochial, definition of 'race'. A definition which is itself culturally-dependent. Hence your argument is circular.

There is a rough framework of what constitutes race. It's not universal, but they are very similar. It's why almost every developed country categorizes people by race and the vast majority of people can generally understand the classification. It's not to say that races of homosapiens is real, but it's a good enough way to diferentdiffe people by phenotype and other traits.
 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,487
533
126
The selective (aka fake) outrage of lefties over racism, homophobia, etc are just sad.

Samuel L makes bigoted, homophobic remarks about Trump. Lose jobs, movies pulled? Nope. business as usual.

NY Daily News employee makes a racist remark about a Fox News host, be "better off picking grapes". Still has a job? Yep. Lefties upset about this? Nope.

Racism and bigotry is perfectly ok with the left, when done to certain people. But not to others.

People here who post ONLY one side of it (such as the OP) as the perfect example of this. They claim to be upset, but they aren't. They really don't care about the problems. Its accepted when done to people they deem deserve it. Repubs, Trump voters, conservatives, gun owners, etc. Blatant hypocrisy, and shows their true colors. Fake outrage is just that, fake. Fucking pathetic, and makes matters worse. But keep on keeping on, acting like you're a solution when you're more of a problem.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
The selective (aka fake) outrage of lefties over racism, homophobia, etc are just sad.

Samuel L makes bigoted, homophobic remarks about Trump. Lose jobs, movies pulled? Nope. business as usual.

NY Daily News employee makes a racist remark about a Fox News host, be "better off picking grapes". Still has a job? Yep. Lefties upset about this? Nope.

Racism and bigotry is perfectly ok with the left, when done to certain people. But not to others.

People here who post ONLY one side of it (such as the OP) as the perfect example of this. They claim to be upset, but they aren't. They really don't care about the problems. Its accepted when done to people they deem deserve it. Repubs, Trump voters, conservatives, gun owners, etc. Blatant hypocrisy, and shows their true colors. Fake outrage is just that, fake. Fucking pathetic, and makes matters worse. But keep on keeping on, acting like you're a solution when you're more of a problem.

Yeah, the bolded words, you should take them to heart.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,208
28,910
136
The selective (aka fake) outrage of lefties over racism, homophobia, etc are just sad.

Samuel L makes bigoted, homophobic remarks about Trump. Lose jobs, movies pulled? Nope. business as usual.

NY Daily News employee makes a racist remark about a Fox News host, be "better off picking grapes". Still has a job? Yep. Lefties upset about this? Nope.

Racism and bigotry is perfectly ok with the left, when done to certain people. But not to others.

People here who post ONLY one side of it (such as the OP) as the perfect example of this. They claim to be upset, but they aren't. They really don't care about the problems. Its accepted when done to people they deem deserve it. Repubs, Trump voters, conservatives, gun owners, etc. Blatant hypocrisy, and shows their true colors. Fake outrage is just that, fake. Fucking pathetic, and makes matters worse. But keep on keeping on, acting like you're a solution when you're more of a problem.
Let us know know when "the lefties" steal your kids.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,279
5,720
146
Wait, you guys are still falling for that guy's attempt to divert from his despicable beliefs by pushing pedantic bullshit where he desperately tries to act like he's the arbiter on language and thus solely gets to determine what words mean?
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
27,648
26,746
136
BK in Russia says "Hold my empty giant ass bottle of vodka"


Burger King Sorry for Food Offer to Women Who Get Impregnated by World Cup Stars
The original post was offered on VK earlier Tuesday, offering women a lifetime supply of Whoppers as well as 3 million Russian rubles ($47,000) if they become impregnated by a soccer star.

"For these girls, it will be possible to get the best football genes, and will lay down the success of the Russian national team on several generations ahead," the post read, as translated by Lauren Theisen of Deadspin. "Forward! We believe in you!"

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...om&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial
 
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realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
It *was* a joke, I'm sure. Just a very bad one.

Oh I'm sure it was a joke by BK, but I thought the story was fake. I have a sense of humor that most would consider too much, but even I know when to hold back. What a weird country.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Russians are racist, who knew? Also big news: they don’t like gay people.

They even hate other white people, like the Ukrainians, who hate them back. There's an ugly streak of the same stuff coming out across much of Europe. Hungary. Poland. Romania. Italy. Even the UK, with Brexit. Maybe the best thing about Nato is that it keeps them from shooting at each other.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
They even hate other white people, like the Ukrainians, who hate them back. There's an ugly streak of the same stuff coming out across much of Europe. Hungary. Poland. Romania. Italy. Even the UK, with Brexit. Maybe the best thing about Nato is that it keeps them from shooting at each other.


There’s not a country on earth that prejudice in some form or fashion isn’t commonplace. Utopia doesn’ exist, never has, never will.