Russian economy collapsing so guess who's coming to the rescue?

[HomerJS]

Fall in the price of oil and the US sanctions is putting the squeeze on Russia. If their economy collapses Putin knows he would be forced out of office.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fast-moving-russian-economic-collapse-causing-panic/

So guess who's coming to the rescue? Trump and Tillerson. Tillerson has already advocated for removing the sanctions and having an oil guy as SOS will help greatly in getting oil process up thereby strengthening Russia and Putin. Trump has already made moved to weaken the position of NATO thereby solidifying Putin's positions in Eastern Europe

Putin and a smart guy and this is what I think is the underlying goal. Trump is just a willing stooge you can flatter into doing your bidding.

 

[raildogg]

Can't we look at the situation without our politically-filtered glasses? Or does politics have to be involved in everything?

So your saying that Trump, President of the world's sole superpower, is a stooge to Putin? So what does that make Putin? The President of America?

Remember, your people in power only tell you so much as to keep you interested in the political system. They're not stupid to let all the information out to the sheeple.

 

[pauldun170]

Posted this in the Tillerson thread awhile back
https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...cretary-of-state.2494341/page-6#post-38639353

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/exxon-mobile-russia-sanctions-rex-tillerson-232770

ExxonMobil successfully lobbied against a bill that would have made it harder for the next president to lift sanctions against Russia, clearing the way for the oil giant to restart a program worth billions of dollars if Donald Trump eases those restrictions as president.

 

[desura]

I really don't see how it is smart in any way to force Russia's economy to collapse. They have nuclear weapons and are 143 million people strong. Collapsing their economy would just bring more problems, not less.

Unless you want to rebuild their country, I think it would be better to just trade with them.

 

[theeedude]

Article is from 2014. Russia is weaker than China and the US, and can't take either head on, so the goal for Putin is to pit China against the US, which Trump is doing for him now.

 

[desura]

Article is from 2014. Russia is weaker than China and the US, and can't take either head on, so the goal for Putin is to pit China against the US, which Trump is doing for him now.

Basically...Putin just wants to preserve the "Russian way of life," which is the society that reflects their history and culture. This isn't any different from the "American way of life." I don't think he wants empire or anything, though buffer zones of protection are pretty important for national security.

I definitely think the USA is overreaching by expanding the anti-Russian NATO alliance to include these former Warsaw Pact countries. I thought that with the end of the cold war we could have disbanded both NATO and the Warsaw Pact.

edit: oh crap, yeah it is from 2014. This is one issue where the mainstream media definitely has failed us. They act like Putin is the most evil person on the planet who has personally enslaved Russian society and wants an empire. Basically they're projecting everything that they actually are onto Putin. And because Putin is white, he's fair game to hate on. No joke on the last one.

 

[theeedude]

Basically...Putin just wants to preserve the "Russian way of life," which is the society that reflects their history and culture. This isn't any different from the "American way of life." I don't think he wants empire or anything, though buffer zones of protection are pretty important for national security.
I definitely think the USA is overreaching by expanding the anti-Russian NATO alliance to include these former Warsaw Pact countries. I thought that with the end of the cold war we could have disbanded both NATO and the Warsaw Pact.

Russian way of life is nothing like the American way of life. It's a dictatorship, which is what he wants to preserve because he is a dictator. Which would be between him and the Russian people, except that he is doing it outside Russia too. The Baltic states are very happy NATO was not disbanded but instead enlarged to include them.

 

[agent00f]

Russian way of life is nothing like the American way of life. It's a dictatorship, which is what he wants to preserve because he is a dictator. Which would be between him and the Russian people, except that he is doing it outside Russia too. The Baltic states are very happy NATO was not disbanded but instead enlarged to include them.

Naw dude, Putin is the real white victim here. Not even kidding, look at his edit.

 

[theeedude]

The problem with Russia is most people there are like our Trump Trash, thinking that the answer to their problems is not in bettering themselves, but putting an authoritarian guy in charge who will hand manage the solutions and make the country great again. There is a lot of rusted out post Soviet decay in Russia, just like our rust and coal belts, and exactly same messaging appeals to exactly same types of people, uncompetitive losers that the modern world has left behind, longing for return to past "greatness."

 

[desura]

The problem with Russia is most people there are like our Trump Trash, thinking that the answer to their problems is not in bettering themselves, but putting an authoritarian guy in charge who will hand manage the solutions and make the country great again. There is a lot of rusted out post Soviet decay in Russia, just like our rust and coal belts, and exactly same messaging appeals to exactly same types of people, uncompetitive losers that the modern world has left behind, longing for return to past "greatness."

Yeah, Russia is a lot like the United States. Big open country, crappy infrastructure. Kind of cold and awful during winter. Sometimes I really do think there is a narcissism of small differences going on in the hatred of Russia.

 

[theeedude]

Empires losing their power often results in this kind of bitter loser politics.

 

[dank69]

Can't we look at the situation without our politically-filtered glasses? Or does politics have to be involved in everything?

So your saying that Trump, President of the world's sole superpower, is a stooge to Putin? So what does that make Putin? The President of America?

Remember, your people in power only tell you so much as to keep you interested in the political system. They're not stupid to let all the information out to the sheeple.

Keep your head firmly planted up your ass. We've only been telling you Trump is Putin's puppet for months. You seem to have successfully blocked out those warnings. Most security experts have been telling you that the Russian government did a lot to influence the election for Trump. You dismissed it as bias.

 

[dank69]

I really don't see how it is smart in any way to force Russia's economy to collapse. They have nuclear weapons and are 143 million people strong. Collapsing their economy would just bring more problems, not less.

Unless you want to rebuild their country, I think it would be better to just trade with them.

Yeah let's just let them annex whoever the fuck they want.

 

[desura]

Yeah let's just let them annex whoever the fuck they want.

I don't think Russia wants to annex anyone it doesn't have to. That's just more trouble. You have to deal with angry insurgents, it is really expensive, lots of people die, etc.

But there is good geopolitical reason why the Baltic states and Ukraine will always be under Russian influence. For starters, they're thousands of miles closer to Russia than anywhere else. God put them close to Russia and they have to deal with it. It isn't up to us to right some ancient wrong that these guys are angry at the Russians about.

 

[JSt0rm]

I don't think Russia wants to annex anyone it doesn't have to. That's just more trouble. You have to deal with angry insurgents, it is really expensive, lots of people die, etc.

But there is good geopolitical reason why the Baltic states and Ukraine will always be under Russian influence. For starters, they're thousands of miles closer to Russia than anywhere else. God put them close to Russia and they have to deal with it. It isn't up to us to right some ancient wrong that these guys are angry at the Russians about.

yeah they didnt want that southern port. they had to take it for reasons.

 

[desura]

yeah they didnt want that southern port. they had to take it for reasons.

Yes, there were solid geopolitical reasons for them to take Crimea. It is where their navy is located and it controls access to the Black Sea. And Ukrainian control of Crimea was a technicality when the Soviet Union assigned it to Ukraine. This is like what happens if Scotland becomes independent?

The real problem was that NATO expansion and the USA running "pro-democracy" operations in Ukraine made he Russians feel threatened. Ukraine will always be part of the Russian sphere. They have much more in common with russia than they do with the west.

 

[Dari]

Article is from 2014. Russia is weaker than China and the US, and can't take either head on, so the goal for Putin is to pit China against the US, which Trump is doing for him now.

I guess you've got it all figured out, huh? Fact is, Russia, China, and the US have always distrusted each other. For decades. The USSR even went as far as attempting to launch a false-flag nuclear warhead against Hawaii in the 1970s or 1960s (by using missiles with only a limited range, which would lead us to assume that it was the Chinese, not Soviets, and nuke all of China). Happily, it was a Russian on the submarine that stopped this madness and he died along with everyone else on that sub. We later found out that it was all spearheaded by fatalistic KGB leaders.

The Russians, again, tried something similar in 2008/9 during the financial crisis when they proposed to the Chinese that Russia and China should join forces and destroy the US dollar. The Chinese declined.

See, your theory here is as old as dirt and each side is well aware of the treachery of the other.

 

[Jhhnn]

I guess you've got it all figured out, huh? Fact is, Russia, China, and the US have always distrusted each other. For decades. The USSR even went as far as attempting to launch a false-flag nuclear warhead against Hawaii in the 1970s or 1960s (by using missiles with only a limited range, which would lead us to assume that it was the Chinese, not Soviets, and nuke all of China). Happily, it was a Russian on the submarine that stopped this madness and he died along with everyone else on that sub. We later found out that it was all spearheaded by fatalistic KGB leaders.

The Russians, again, tried something similar in 2008/9 during the financial crisis when they proposed to the Chinese that Russia and China should join forces and destroy the US dollar. The Chinese declined.

See, your theory here is as old as dirt and each side is well aware of the treachery of the other.

Two conspiracy theories in one post. Congratulations!

 

[dank69]

I don't think Russia wants to annex anyone it doesn't have to. That's just more trouble. You have to deal with angry insurgents, it is really expensive, lots of people die, etc.

But there is good geopolitical reason why the Baltic states and Ukraine will always be under Russian influence. For starters, they're thousands of miles closer to Russia than anywhere else. God put them close to Russia and they have to deal with it. It isn't up to us to right some ancient wrong that these guys are angry at the Russians about.

Okay I understand now. It's God's fault Russia annexed Crimea and 2015 is ancient.

 

[Dari]

Two conspiracy theories in one post. Congratulations!

Conspiracy theories? If whatever isn't confirmed by official channels is a conspiracy theory to you, then so be it...

 

[Abwx]

Conspiracy theories? If whatever isn't confirmed by official channels is a conspiracy theory to you, then so be it...

It is not confirmed because it s lies to hide the fact that such mad dogs ops were a US specialty, and certainly not a russian one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Giant_Lance

You see, it s documented...

 

[Dari]

It is not confirmed because it s lies to hide the fact that such mad dogs ops were a US specialty, and certainly not a russian one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Giant_Lance

You see, it s documented...

I never said they were only done by the Russians, just that the Russians weren't new to this or that Trump was somehow some "useful idiot" as senseamp was implying. Also, your link says nothing about a false flag operation (and I know of quite a few by us but can't share them here). I don't think the Chinese have done any false flags yet, probably because they have a much bigger problem in their own restless population and aren't that comfortable venturing out. Finally, Churchill's Operation Unthinkable (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Unthinkable) was far more ambitious than Giant Lance, IMHO.

 

[Jhhnn]

.

It is not confirmed because it s lies to hide the fact that such mad dogs ops were a US specialty, and certainly not a russian one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Giant_Lance

You see, it s documented...

So what? That has nothing to do with Dari's conspiracy theories.

 

[theeedude]

I guess you've got it all figured out, huh? Fact is, Russia, China, and the US have always distrusted each other. For decades. The USSR even went as far as attempting to launch a false-flag nuclear warhead against Hawaii in the 1970s or 1960s (by using missiles with only a limited range, which would lead us to assume that it was the Chinese, not Soviets, and nuke all of China). Happily, it was a Russian on the submarine that stopped this madness and he died along with everyone else on that sub. We later found out that it was all spearheaded by fatalistic KGB leaders.
The Russians, again, tried something similar in 2008/9 during the financial crisis when they proposed to the Chinese that Russia and China should join forces and destroy the US dollar. The Chinese declined.
See, your theory here is as old as dirt and each side is well aware of the treachery of the other.

My theory is that Russia is trying to pit China against the US, not that they are trying to join forces with China.

 

[desura]

My theory is that Russia is trying to pit China against the US, not that they are trying to join forces with China.

And the USA is trying to team up with China against Russia, and Russia is trying to team up with China against the USA.

At least when dealing with Russians and Chinese you don't have to tiptoe around PC niceties like you do when hit by terrorists.