Russia puts another nail in the coffin of Kyoto Treaty

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
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In 30 billion years who will care? Earth can take care of itself...close yucca mountain welfare project and dump the sh1t in your nearest lake.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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Originally posted by: burnedout
I guess "teh eval Americans" aren't alone on this issue now.
So it's the former evil empire (RR's words) we compare ourselves to now?:p;)
 

busmaster11

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2000
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Originally posted by: burnedout
I guess "teh eval Americans" aren't alone on this issue now.
Actually we may still be.

That the most prosperous nation on earth cannot find the balls to lead the fight to be accountable to the Earth has to be seriously demoralizing to the efforts anyone else tries to lead.

Anyone say anything different has been reading too much of that right-wing redneck heritage foundation propaganda.
 

miguel

Senior member
Nov 2, 2001
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Originally posted by: busmaster11
Anyone say anything different has been reading too much of that right-wing redneck heritage foundation propaganda.
DO you realize that by making statements like that, you rule out any possible discussion with you on anything? Do you enjoy the company of people who agree with you 100% all the time?

 

busmaster11

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2000
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Originally posted by: miguel
Originally posted by: busmaster11
Anyone say anything different has been reading too much of that right-wing redneck heritage foundation propaganda.
DO you realize that by making statements like that, you rule out any possible discussion with you on anything? Do you enjoy the company of people who agree with you 100% all the time?
Not quite... But you will find that the people in this forum, including myself, have largely made up our minds and are not likely to be persuaded. I'll grant you, it wasn't the most well qualified thing to say, but I assure you, its out of frustration.
 

miguel

Senior member
Nov 2, 2001
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Originally posted by: busmaster11
Originally posted by: miguel
Originally posted by: busmaster11
Anyone say anything different has been reading too much of that right-wing redneck heritage foundation propaganda.
DO you realize that by making statements like that, you rule out any possible discussion with you on anything? Do you enjoy the company of people who agree with you 100% all the time?
Not quite... But you will find that the people in this forum, including myself, have largely made up our minds and are not likely to be persuaded. I'll grant you, it wasn't the most well qualified thing to say, but I assure you, its out of frustration.
THat's fine and all, but why on Earth would you be frustrated? Because others think differently? If you have such a closed mind, does that mean you read the forums looking to disagree with others regardless of what is written, as long as it's different from your point of view?

America is a great place because people can live next to each other and have totally different views of the world. To close yourself up like that is doing yourself a disservice. Lighten up and open your mind a little to different ideas.
 

busmaster11

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2000
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Originally posted by: miguel
Originally posted by: busmaster11
Originally posted by: miguel
Originally posted by: busmaster11
Anyone say anything different has been reading too much of that right-wing redneck heritage foundation propaganda.
DO you realize that by making statements like that, you rule out any possible discussion with you on anything? Do you enjoy the company of people who agree with you 100% all the time?
Not quite... But you will find that the people in this forum, including myself, have largely made up our minds and are not likely to be persuaded. I'll grant you, it wasn't the most well qualified thing to say, but I assure you, its out of frustration.
THat's fine and all, but why on Earth would you be frustrated? Because others think differently? If you have such a closed mind, does that mean you read the forums looking to disagree with others regardless of what is written, as long as it's different from your point of view?

America is a great place because people can live next to each other and have totally different views of the world. To close yourself up like that is doing yourself a disservice. Lighten up and open your mind a little to different ideas.
Good job of critical thinking here. But you will find that I am not, can not be the one whose closeminded here. My cynical attitude is a result of knowing that the conservatives here will all ignore the facts and cite things from highly biased sites with political agendas while discrediting mainstream sources that I would cite for example.

Everyday you can find new articles on clearly legitimate news sites such as CNN and BBC that alert us to symptoms of global warming - and from records found in Antarctic and Greenland ice, lead scientists to believe is at least partially man-made. Yet guys like glenn1 will have you believe that more evidence is needed before we take action for something that is clearly irresponsible.

Why have you not criticized him for calling those who defend the enviroment, "bunny huggers"? Are you that objective yourself?

My biggest issue is with american arrogance. In the eyes of God an american life is no more valuable than that of any other human being - despite what you might have been brought up to believe. We do not have the authority to make the unilatteral arrogant decisions that this regime have made. Might does not equal right.
 

Jmman

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 1999
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Why in the world would the US sign that treaty based upon junk science? Do you want to pay $3.50 for gasoline? Or maybe you want more jobs to go overseas since costs here will skyrocket? I like how those little pesky "developing" nations are exempt from Kyoto, you know, like China and India? China really deserves to be exempt since they have one of the fastest growing economies and they are only the second largest emitter of greenhouse gases on the planet...........
 

busmaster11

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2000
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Originally posted by: Jmman
Why in the world would the US sign that treaty based upon junk science? Do you want to pay $3.50 for gasoline? Or maybe you want more jobs to go overseas since costs here will skyrocket? I like how those little pesky "developing" nations are exempt from Kyoto, you know, like China and India? China really deserves to be exempt since they have one of the fastest growing economies and they are only the second largest emitter of greenhouse gases on the planet...........
If they write China into Kyoto, would that change your mind? No? Well then sit down.

Besides, quit being a baby. The whole point of leading the world when you are the most prosperous country is to do so voluntarily as an acknowledgement that you can afford what others can't. But I don't blame you - that little tidbit eludes many people.

And junk science? See what I mean? All the articles in the world won't make a difference to right-wingers unless something impacts them on a personal level.
 

Jmman

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 1999
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Hey friend, I have just spent one whole semester researching Kyoto, and they are plenty of reputable scientists out there that question the link between anthropogenic emissions and global warming. Sorry to burst your bubble......
 

busmaster11

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2000
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Originally posted by: Jmman
Hey friend, I have just spent one whole semester researching Kyoto, and they are plenty of reputable scientists out there that question the link between anthropogenic emissions and global warming. Sorry to burst your bubble......
Hmmm... they wouldn't happen to have a political agenda, would they?



:Q
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
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Gotta hate to see this treaty hit a brick wall like that. What a shame...

I think I'm gonna go burn the mound of old tires behind my house. Adios.
 

Jmman

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 1999
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Actually I was thinking more the likes of this guy. Google his name and you will see that he is eminently respected........

Dr. Gray

Here is a little quote from him.......

Dr. Gray asserts that this change in climate is probably natural in origin:
[a]s more-realistic computer simulations become available in the future, I believe we will learn that the runaway global warming scenarios predicted by current Global Computer Model technology grossly overestimate the actual threat, and that the small surface warming trends observed in global surface temperature during the last 25 to 100 years, which have been so highly touted in the press, are primarily of natural origin and not due to human influences. (53)
 

busmaster11

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2000
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You can find plenty of scientists that argue either way. My favorite example is Stephen Schneider, scientist at NCAR and Stanford, often criticized for hehe, ironically, molding his theories upon the latest scientific models, and can be seen on lots of PBS documentaries such as Infinite voyage and NOVA. But he'll also qualify his words, and take a vast knowledge of politics into account, as can be seen in this SCIAM critique..

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000F3D47-C6D2-1CEB-93F6809EC5880000&pageNumber=1&catID=2

The point is neither of this will impress you or I, and we've made our mind up long ago.

I ask you this - do you feel there is a moral obligation for the US to be an example to the world to environmental responsibility?

A good leader does not look back to make sure everyone's following before he acts.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: busmaster11
You can find plenty of scientists that argue either way. My favorite example is Stephen Schneider, scientist at NCAR and Stanford, often criticized for hehe, ironically, molding his theories upon the latest scientific models, and can be seen on lots of PBS documentaries such as Infinite voyage and NOVA. But he'll also qualify his words, and take a vast knowledge of politics into account, as can be seen in this SCIAM critique..

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000F3D47-C6D2-1CEB-93F6809EC5880000&pageNumber=1&catID=2

The point is neither of this will impress you or I, and we've made our mind up long ago.

I ask you this - do you feel there is a moral obligation for the US to be an example to the world to environmental responsibility?

A good leader does not look back to make sure everyone's following before he acts.
If the greens would stop waiting for the perfect solution, we could really make some progress. They seem to find fault with any technology that exists for cleaner power.
 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
0
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Originally posted by: busmaster11
Originally posted by: Jmman
Why in the world would the US sign that treaty based upon junk science? Do you want to pay $3.50 for gasoline? Or maybe you want more jobs to go overseas since costs here will skyrocket? I like how those little pesky "developing" nations are exempt from Kyoto, you know, like China and India? China really deserves to be exempt since they have one of the fastest growing economies and they are only the second largest emitter of greenhouse gases on the planet...........
The whole point of leading the world when you are the most prosperous country is to do so voluntarily as an acknowledgement that you can afford what others can't.
No it isn't.
 

busmaster11

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2000
2,875
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Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: busmaster11
You can find plenty of scientists that argue either way. My favorite example is Stephen Schneider, scientist at NCAR and Stanford, often criticized for hehe, ironically, molding his theories upon the latest scientific models, and can be seen on lots of PBS documentaries such as Infinite voyage and NOVA. But he'll also qualify his words, and take a vast knowledge of politics into account, as can be seen in this SCIAM critique..

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000F3D47-C6D2-1CEB-93F6809EC5880000&pageNumber=1&catID=2

The point is neither of this will impress you or I, and we've made our mind up long ago.

I ask you this - do you feel there is a moral obligation for the US to be an example to the world to environmental responsibility?

A good leader does not look back to make sure everyone's following before he acts.
If the greens would stop waiting for the perfect solution, we could really make some progress. They seem to find fault with any technology that exists for cleaner power.
So progress is being impeded by the um... environmentalist majority in Congress?

Seriously, I know there are left-wing and right-wing nuts out there...
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: busmaster11
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: busmaster11
You can find plenty of scientists that argue either way. My favorite example is Stephen Schneider, scientist at NCAR and Stanford, often criticized for hehe, ironically, molding his theories upon the latest scientific models, and can be seen on lots of PBS documentaries such as Infinite voyage and NOVA. But he'll also qualify his words, and take a vast knowledge of politics into account, as can be seen in this SCIAM critique..

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000F3D47-C6D2-1CEB-93F6809EC5880000&pageNumber=1&catID=2

The point is neither of this will impress you or I, and we've made our mind up long ago.

I ask you this - do you feel there is a moral obligation for the US to be an example to the world to environmental responsibility?

A good leader does not look back to make sure everyone's following before he acts.
If the greens would stop waiting for the perfect solution, we could really make some progress. They seem to find fault with any technology that exists for cleaner power.
So progress is being impeded by the um... environmentalist majority in Congress?

Seriously, I know there are left-wing and right-wing nuts out there...

The last congress removed money for nuke power. We cant for some reason recycle nuke waste.
It took another massive forest fire to pass some better forest management legislation.

OUr convoluted enviro laws are in some cases a problem.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
69,536
4,956
126
There will always someone opposed to anything. To blame the "greens" is IMO misplaced, it is the lack of Political Will.
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: burnedout
I guess "teh eval Americans" aren't alone on this issue now.
So it's the former evil empire (RR's words) we compare ourselves to now?:p;)
Hell, from reading some of the pedantic rants about our country on these boards, one might possibly conclude that we are the most evil civilization ever to inhabit the Earth. ;):p
 

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