Russia/Putin During the American Civil War

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

If Russia/Putin was around during the American Civil War, would they/he have supported the Confederacy since the reports right now are that Russia is requesting that the West should respect the results of the referendums done in the eastern part of Ukraine?

 

[IronWing]

No need to wonder. The desires of the people have nothing to do with relations among the powers.

 

[theeedude]

No, but the US and Europe interfered in the Russian Civil War:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_intervention_in_the_Russian_Civil_War

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

My main reason for asking is based on the behavior and actions of Russia and Putin if a referendum (or any type of legal election) by the people of a certain area is successful (without going into the legitimately of the actual referendum) then they will approve it and back it.

 

[Fern]

If Russia/Putin was around during the American Civil War, would they/he have supported the Confederacy since the reports right now are that Russia is requesting that the West should respect the results of the referendums done in the eastern part of Ukraine?

IMO Putin does what he thinks is in his and Russia's best interest.

So, I think he would have supported the South. I believe he would have a considered a US split in half a weaker foe.

Edit: To add clarity - I don't believe Putin has principals or is motivated by any. A charge of hypocrisy does not deter him in the least.

Fern

 

[lozina]

If you are looking for a standard, or expect nations to follow precedent, you are going down a dead end street.

Ukraine rebels want separate state - Russia supports it, US condemns it.

Syria rebels want separate state - Russia condemns it, US supports it.

Both sides are just watching out for their own national interests.

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

IMO Putin does what he thinks is in his and Russia's best interest.

So what is the benefit of getting the eastern Ukraine regions? I understand why they wanted Crimea, but not the eastern Ukraine regions (maybe only as a land grab)?

But then again, it could be that he feels that Ukraine shouldn't even have those parts since they shouldn't have been given to Ukraine in the first place.

 

[Fern]

So what is the benefit of getting the eastern Ukraine regions? I understand why they wanted Crimea, but not the eastern Ukraine regions (maybe only as a land grab)?

But then again, it could be that he feels that Ukraine shouldn't even have those parts since they shouldn't have been given to Ukraine in the first place.

The Ukraine is on Russia's border.

I think he wants to keep it weak and in disarray to ensure limited Western influence there.

I don't think Putin wants to absorb the eastern portion of Ukraine. I believe he wants the govt reorganized into a federation so that the national govt remains too weak to enter into agreements with the West.

I do believe he would take all of Ukraine if he could. But I don't presently see how splitting the Ukraine into two autonomous/separate entities - one strongly leaning to Russia and the other strongly leaning to the West - is of any benefit to Putin's plans.

Fern

 

[brycejones]

I think Fern's assessment is pretty accurate.

 

[NetWareHead]

If Russia/Putin was around during the American Civil War, would they/he have supported the Confederacy since the reports right now are that Russia is requesting that the West should respect the results of the referendums done in the eastern part of Ukraine?

Haha Russia didnt have the naval power at that time to project any force worthy of helping the confederacy. It only would have been a token gesture for them to recognize the confederacy as a nation and nothing more. They had bigger problems at home to deal with then worrying about the plight of slaves.

 

[NetWareHead]

The Ukraine is on Russia's border.

I think he wants to keep it weak and in disarray to ensure limited Western influence there.

I don't think Putin wants to absorb the eastern portion of Ukraine. I believe he wants the govt reorganized into a federation so that the national govt remains too weak to enter into agreements with the West.

I do believe he would take all of Ukraine if he could. But I don't presently see how splitting the Ukraine into two autonomous/separate entities - one strongly leaning to Russia and the other strongly leaning to the West - is of any benefit to Putin's plans.

Fern

IMO its to late for that. Russia's taking of Crimea and pro Russian activities in eastern/southern Ukraine has already decisively driven the rest of Ukraine eastward to europe. The Russian majority regions may secede and join Russia. Russia already took Sevastopol and Crimea and I think they will also get Donetsk and Lukhansk and probably not much more.

 

[theeedude]

IMO its to late for that. Russia's taking of Crimea and pro Russian activities in eastern/southern Ukraine has already decisively driven the rest of Ukraine eastward to europe. The Russian majority regions may secede and join Russia. Russia already took Sevastopol and Crimea and I think they will also get Donetsk and Lukhansk and probably not much more.

Ukraine is not going to let go of Donetsk and Lugansk voluntarily. So if Russia wants them to stay as trouble regions in Ukraine, that's where they will be.

 

[Anarchist420]

i dont know, but it is interesting how people like obama who claim to love democracy support violence against secessionists... there was more democracy in the antebellum south than there was in the north and lincoln just barely won his constituency.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Putin would have used the Civil War to scoop up the territory states.

OR & CA would have been under siege by the Putin; Putin himself that is. The Russians would have occupied the territories and Putin, would have OR & CA under his boot heel.

Also, he would have mined all the gold in CA with his two bare hands.

 

[shady28]

My main reason for asking is based on the behavior and actions of Russia and Putin if a referendum (or any type of legal election) by the people of a certain area is successful (without going into the legitimately of the actual referendum) then they will approve it and back it.

Did you read the link in the first response to your post?

You got it completely backwards from what actually happened.


"Alone among European powers Russia offered rhetorical support for the Union, largely due to the view that the U.S. served as a counterbalance to the British Empire.[16]"

France and Britain wanted a divided USA. Russia wanted a counter balance to the power of Britain.

As others have said, it all boils down to leaders doing what (they believe) is in their countries interests at the time. It should be no surprise that Putin puts Russia's interests first and foremost.

If you want to know why he is doing the things he is doing, find out what Russia's interests are.

This video will give you 100x more information on Russia's motivations for exercising control over certain geographical regions than you'll ever get on these forums.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE6rSljTwdU

 

[shady28]

And this one. You need to see both to get the whole picture :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL_09mazZs8

 

[IronWing]

i dont know, but it is interesting how people like obama who claim to love democracy support violence against secessionists... there was more democracy in the antebellum south than there was in the north and lincoln just barely won his constituency.

Please stop lying. Thank you.

 

[NetWareHead]

Ukraine is not going to let go of Donetsk and Lugansk voluntarily. So if Russia wants them to stay as trouble regions in Ukraine, that's where they will be.

That's what Kiev said about Crimea.

Unless I'm wrong these two regions have majority Russian population who support union with Russia.

 

[theeedude]

That's what Kiev said about Crimea.

Unless I'm wrong these two regions have majority Russian population who support union with Russia.

Crimea is unique and strategic. There is plenty of post-industrial sh!tholes like Lugansk and Donetsk already in Russia.
Also, Crimea was easy pickings and joined Russia without any material resistance. Lugansk and Donetsk are more of a mixed bag and more trouble than they are worth.

 

[NetWareHead]

Crimea is unique and strategic. There is plenty of post-industrial sh!tholes like Lugansk and Donetsk already in Russia.
Also, Crimea was easy pickings and joined Russia without any material resistance. Lugansk and Donetsk are more of a mixed bag and more trouble than they are worth.

Both areas represent major portions of Ukraine's steel and coal output (provide over half of Ukraine's output). These are strategically important industrial areas for Ukraine.

The results of both referendums have been tallied and populations have voted over 90% in favor of breaking free of Ukraine.