Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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Muse

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,508
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bshole said:
Fighting a 3rd world country is a little bit different than fighting a European country armed to the teeth with American weapons. The death count for the Ukranian conflict could be 7.88 billion if Putin decides he has nothing to lose. I am not sure painting the country with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world into a corner is superior to a negotiated peace treaty that allows him to save face.

It is also notable to see countries like Brazil, India, Saudi Arabia, Iran and China all being neutral (at best) on this conflict. Saudi Arabia has signaled an interest in moving away from the petrol dollar,. If that occurs, it could signal the creation of BRIC coalition in opposition to American power. That would pretty much signal an end to America's ability to project power.

www.americansecurityproject.org

How the Growing Appeal of BRICS Challenges American Influence Abroad

The war in Ukraine has precipitated the recent strengthening of the BRICS group, which could challenge the current Western-led world order.
www.americansecurityproject.org www.americansecurityproject.org
Click to expand...
Those are all big authoritarian states. Conscience has no place in the lives of their leaders.
 
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kage69

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,287
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bshole said:
Fighting a 3rd world country is a little bit different than fighting a European country armed to the teeth with American weapons. The death count for the Ukranian conflict could be 7.88 billion if Putin decides he has nothing to lose. I am not sure painting the country with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world into a corner is superior to a negotiated peace treaty that allows him to save face.

It is also notable to see countries like Brazil, India, Saudi Arabia, Iran and China all being neutral (at best) on this conflict. Saudi Arabia has signaled an interest in moving away from the petrol dollar,. If that occurs, it could signal the creation of BRIC coalition in opposition to American power. That would pretty much signal an end to America's ability to project power.

www.americansecurityproject.org

How the Growing Appeal of BRICS Challenges American Influence Abroad

The war in Ukraine has precipitated the recent strengthening of the BRICS group, which could challenge the current Western-led world order.
www.americansecurityproject.org www.americansecurityproject.org
Click to expand...

You think having a competing energy exchange/coalition automagically invalidates the energy we have and produce ourselves, as well as our military assets already very developed around the globe? Chinese market for energy will likely collapse with their population, and India is a democracy and our friend.

Incidentally, Russia is threatening the cohesion of BRICS via it's record of atrocities and war crimes in Ukraine. South Africans, the older ones, still have that attachment from the 60s and 70s when the Soviets supplied anti apartheid forces with weapons. Problem is, trade with the US and the EU is magnitudes what it is with Russia now, and younger generations seem to both lack that old Soviet affection yet are quite bothered by current Russian atrocities and war crimes. My hunch is that Brazil (and definitely Mexico) will be even closer to the States in the future, that BRICS has long term issues and needs more than Saudi money to work. The way things are going the Russian Fed making it out of this decade intact isn't even a given really. China and India have a looming water conflict don't they? I mean assuming Xi doesn't take back Vladivostok and the Amur regions, hell maybe turn Baikal into a Chinese lake.
 
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Y

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
5,705
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senseamp said:
Should we be concerned about environmental impact in grain growing areas?
Click to expand...
Or the growing season being missed this spring/summer; - well people who depend on Ukraine grain should be concern but concern or not it isn't going to change the nature of things. We can be as concern as we want to be but without action not much will change. What can we say - Putin - with his enlarged ego and decaying mental abilities is a disaster.... Of course there could be worse disaster as there are other miscalculating [pick your favorite phrase] leaders out there with too large an ego; ability to make large boom and little regards to short term or long term consequences.
 
senseamp

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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Jaskalas said:
Russia's tank division has gone all out on Avdiivka and the surrounding countryside in an attempt to dislodge the Ukrainian stronghold and collapse the front line.
Reportedly dozens of tanks destroyed "in each direction", but the Orcs keep swarming in the hope that Ukraine runs out of ammo before Russia runs out of armor and men.

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If you look on the map, Avdiivka is 2 miles from Donetsk, and Russia/DPR couldn't take it for 9 years now. But situation is still pretty tough for the Ukrainians. Lots of Ukrainian soldiers getting killed. Not as many as attacking Russians, but a lot by any modern standard, hundreds per day. Ammo we are sending is important, but it's getting used up fast repelling constant attacks, so much more close combat now than before when it was mostly artillery duels.
 
T

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,537
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A pipe dream for sure, yet wouldn't it be so righteous and satisfying if the ICC authorizes INTERPOL to capture Putin by all means available at their disposal. Having him convicted in absentia would also be a good thing. What that would mean in the way of consequences that would occur on the world stage is also something amusing to think about, like how would the world's tyrants react to that, etc.
 
L

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,625
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senseamp said:
Should we be concerned about environmental impact in grain growing areas?
Click to expand...
its a bit late for that ...

www.japantimes.co.jp

How Putin's war is poisoning Ukraine's breadbasket

Scientists looking at soil samples taken from the recaptured Ukrainian region of Kharkiv found high concentrations of toxins such as mercury and arsenic from munitions.
www.japantimes.co.jp www.japantimes.co.jp

Russia's proliferate mass use of munitions that contain heavy metals and dangerous chemicals have already poisoned large portions of Europe's breadbasket.



The best, quickest, and safest thing to do is an immediate intervention to engage and destroy every Russian military asset in Ukraine or any Russian military assets that threaten Ukraine with overwhelming, disproportionate, and excessive force.
 
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Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
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bshole said:
fear mongering
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Your assuming Putin's nukes actually work, a roll of the dice even Putin is likely to scared to make.

bshole said:
I am not sure painting the country with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world into a corner is superior to a negotiated peace treaty that allows him to save face.
Click to expand...
so not letting Putin genocide his neighbor is painting him into a corner? Your statements are delusional.

bshole said:
I am not sure painting the country with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world into a corner is superior to a negotiated peace treaty that allows him to save face.
Click to expand...
You mean the worlds oldest and most decrepit nuclear arsenal, with weapons that fail to function in less then three years if the expensive, technically difficult, and top secret maintenance is not performed to exacting standards. So top secret that there is no oversite at all to stop someone from just taking the money and just buying his third yacht. After all, it is not like anybody is actually going to check if this thing is actually going to go bang.


bshole said:
It is also notable to see countries like Brazil, India, Saudi Arabia, Iran and China all being neutral (at best) on this conflict. Saudi Arabia has signaled an interest in moving away from the petrol dollar,. If that occurs, it could signal the creation of BRIC coalition in opposition to American power. That would pretty much signal an end to America's ability to project power.
Click to expand...
BRIC was created way back in 2010, and it has achieved squat. That is not going to change any time soon.

Or are you all excited to start accepting RMB?
 
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Brovane

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,341
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bshole said:
Fighting a 3rd world country is a little bit different than fighting a European country armed to the teeth with American weapons. The death count for the Ukranian conflict could be 7.88 billion if Putin decides he has nothing to lose. I am not sure painting the country with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world into a corner is superior to a negotiated peace treaty that allows him to save face.
Click to expand...

We allowed Putin to save face in 2014 when he took Crimea for Ukraine. Let's not repeat that mistake again.

 
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Muse

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
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K1052 said:
Ukrainians finishing Patriot training ahead of schedule. The US's two decades in the Middle East, in Afghanistan specifically, have likely ingrained some bad assumptions about how long it would take the Ukrainians to learn the systems. A mistake we keep making.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1638308390903373824
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“The Patriot…typically takes U.S. soldiers up to a year to learn. But after just a few weeks, the Ukrainians were already able to independently set up and operate the system against a simulated threat in under 45 minutes.”

I figure it's the high morale and commitment of Ukrainians (it's exhilarating) that accounts for their being a quick study on weapon systems.
 
T

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,537
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uallas5 said:
Oh Noes we're in trouble now

Russia recruits Steven Seagal to teach martial arts to its soldiers | Marca

or maybe not


maybe he'll just teach them how to waddle around and slap people to death?
Click to expand...


I just wonder where the line is when he is branded a certified traitor by the US gov't and the media. I have purposely avoided watching any of his movies from way back when simply because he cashed in on his martial arts skills in a bad way where he brought dishonor and shame to the art while he was at it. That's just about the worst thing he could do to his teachers.
 
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misuspita

misuspita

Senior member
Jul 15, 2006
401
452
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K1052 said:
Ukrainians finishing Patriot training ahead of schedule. The US's two decades in the Middle East, in Afghanistan specifically, have likely ingrained some bad assumptions about how long it would take the Ukrainians to learn the systems. A mistake we keep making.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1638308390903373824
Click to expand...
It's a different thing when you train for a "possible" future armed conflict and another thing when you know your life and lives of loved ones depend on your ability to shot down the enemy. Pressure always makes for quicker learning. I'm not saying they are not good, but I bet they sent to trainig the best of the best and those are the ones that were using lesser defence systems and still managed to down russian rockets, so using a Patriot is like going inside a Formula 1 car after driving a dune buggy
 
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kage69

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
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Yeah quite the show of antiques in Ukraine. I'm still tickled by what I saw the other day - footage of a Ukrainian layin it down with a modified Maxim, one sporting a stock and pistol grip, optics and a suppressor. Was using it just like a KT machine gun, looked to be enjoying much less recoil though. Saw another pic of a Ukrainian Maxim mounted at an extreme inclination. I think they are doing what the Brits did in WWI, where they basically use machine guns as short range artillery, sending streams of bullets high up in pronounced arcs to achieve maximum range and a better angle to hit those in cover.

Heh.

fsb.PNG
 
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R

Roger Wilco

Diamond Member
Mar 20, 2017
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kage69 said:
Yeah quite the show of antiques in Ukraine. I'm still tickled by what I saw the other day - footage of a Ukrainian layin it down with a modified Maxim, one sporting a stock and pistol grip, optics and a suppressor. Was using it just like a KT machine gun, looked to be enjoying much less recoil though. Saw another pic of a Ukrainian Maxim mounted at an extreme inclination. I think they are doing what the Brits did in WWI, where they basically use machine guns as short range artillery, sending streams of bullets high up in a pronounced arcs to achieve maximum range and a better angle to hit those in cover.

Heh.

View attachment 78520
Click to expand...

That’s fascinating. I didn’t even know that was a thing. Reminds me of the torque bow from Gears of War.
 
Amused

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
55,858
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kage69 said:
Yeah quite the show of antiques in Ukraine. I'm still tickled by what I saw the other day - footage of a Ukrainian layin it down with a modified Maxim, one sporting a stock and pistol grip, optics and a suppressor. Was using it just like a KT machine gun, looked to be enjoying much less recoil though. Saw another pic of a Ukrainian Maxim mounted at an extreme inclination. I think they are doing what the Brits did in WWI, where they basically use machine guns as short range artillery, sending streams of bullets high up in a pronounced arcs to achieve maximum range and a better angle to hit those in cover.

Heh.

View attachment 78520
Click to expand...

Here

https://twitter.com/x/status/1604613652744736769

https://twitter.com/x/status/1632454588782505988

https://twitter.com/TarmoFella/stat...ing-a-140-year-old-machine-gun-against-russia
 
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