Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,321
9,175
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Some possible indications the Russians are attacking shipping in the Black Sea


That's at least 4 that I've seen so far. I'm sure the constant Global Hawk coverage over the Black Sea has pretty good recordings of them.

I don't think we'll get the "no fly zone" some are calling for, but the Black Sea fleet doing stupid shit against vessels in international waters is a really good way to escalate this thing super fast.
 
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Artorias

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2014
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Former heavyweight champion Vitali Klitschko, the mayor of Ukraine's capital, Kyiv, said he plans to take up arms to defend against Russia's invasion, which began in the early hours Thursday.

 
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pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,142
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Remember when a comedian won an election and defeated an Oligarch after the prior president got booted for rejecting Ukrainians wanting to integrate more with EU?
That Comedian, his friends and family are now being hunted down and will likely be murdered.

Be pretty fucked up if Putin installed Yanukovych as president when this is all said and done.

Almost as fucked up as Americans walking around supporting Putin and rambling about bullshit about NATO
 

Grey_Beard

Golden Member
Sep 23, 2014
1,825
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Yes, my understanding is that it can't be unilateral though the US can influence others to agree.

Europe has so far resisted this option but there are indications they could be changing their minds as the battle for Kyiv intensifies.

The issue with SWIFT is that it impacts many things in an interconnected global monetary system. This needs approvals from everyone impacted. It means anyone who does any trade with Russia cannot once SWIFT is closed. No oil or gas from Russia can be paid for unless there is another means to do that. Given Europe’s dependence on the Russian this is a last resort measure.
 
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BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,299
12,633
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Older people here, can you give a history lesson? Like were republicans this pro Russia during the Cold War. Or only recently because they are following their orange leader and how much he butt kisses Putin?

Bingo! You hit the nail right on the head. The (former) Great Republican God, Ronnie Rayguns has been rolling over in his grave since Trump took office.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,067
8,085
136

Since Russia's violation, every single nation has clearly stated that they had lied in those agreements. Lesson, the West is weak and will abandon you. We are not good or trustworthy allies. It changes the calculation that nations should join the eastern bloc instead. NATO is not belligerent, and so being Russian is "safer" than not being Russian. (Or China).
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,246
37,666
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The issue with SWIFT is that it impacts many things in an interconnected global monetary system. This needs approvals from everyone impacted. It means anyone who does any trade with Russia cannot once SWIFT is closed. No oil or gas from Russia can be paid for unless there is another means to do that. Given Europe’s dependence on the Russian this is a last resort measure.

It is probably better to describe the EU-Russia energy relationship as interdependent. Europe needs it but Russia can't survive without the cash and there is no way to rapidly enough to shift exports to stave off fiscal and financial sector calamity even accounting for large currency reserves. Russian gas sector in particular is almost entirely engineered to send gas to Europe, no switch to flip to send it to China.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,710
51,001
136
Since Russia's violation, every single nation has clearly stated that they had lied in those agreements. Lesson, the West is weak and will abandon you. We are not good or trustworthy allies. It changes the calculation that nations should join the eastern bloc instead. NATO is not belligerent, and so being Russian is "safer" than not being Russian. (Or China).
This is false - every adherent to that agreement kept its word except Russia.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,067
8,085
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This is false - every adherent to that agreement kept its word except Russia.

So, affirming Ukraine's security and sovereignty was to be done with bags of popcorn? Yes, I can see it now. We honor the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances by sitting back and watching the fireworks.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,067
8,085
136
Ukraine is a stark lesson that the Eastern bloc will go to war. NATO will not.
Better for neutral parties to join Russia and China than risk destruction.

From this one truth, the US has already lost the Pacific.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,710
51,001
136
So, affirming Ukraine's security and sovereignty was to be done with bags of popcorn? Yes, I can see it now. We honor the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances by sitting back and watching the fireworks.
No, the US promised that the UNITED STATES would not violate Ukraine's sovereignty, not that it would defend Ukraine against all others that attempt to do so.

That's why Ukraine wants to join NATO, after all. That's how it would get that promise from the US!

So no, the US is not a liar because it didn't follow through on nonexistent promises.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,281
10,935
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Fully aware of that. Do it under the premise of mutual defensive exercises for a potential NATO member. As long as there were enough NATO troops there, it is almost certain Putin would not have done shit
You would just give Putin more ammunition proving his point. Big picture, big picture. Holy crap! 13 more pages ahead.
 

nicalandia

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2019
3,331
5,282
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Ukraine is a stark lesson that the Eastern bloc will go to war. NATO will not.
Better for neutral parties to join Russia and China than risk destruction.

From this one truth, the US has already lost the Pacific.
Bull Shit..!
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,710
51,001
136
Ukraine is a stark lesson that the Eastern bloc will go to war. NATO will not.
Better for neutral parties to join Russia and China than risk destruction.

From this one truth, the US has already lost the Pacific.
It is true that NATO will not go to war on behalf of countries that are not in NATO. Wouldn't it be insane if NATO was somehow committed to just going to war on behalf of anyone who was invaded?
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,281
10,935
136
Like I said I think he's already failing in Ukraine. No point in speculating further ahead at this point. I wouldn't be surprised to hear he gets assassinated by his own people in the near future. Whoever does it would be a world hero and could build Russia into a nice country.
At the minimum, become another non-person in his dacha.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,281
10,935
136
Bingo! You hit the nail right on the head. The (former) Great Republican God, Ronnie Rayguns has been rolling over in his grave since Trump took office.
Yet Fox is now complaining that the US isn't doing enough. Anything for the continuous negative picture about Biden.