Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,165
30,117
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In 1942 Stalin issued Order 227 which involved sending penal battalions to the front lines with rear detachments meant to block and kill retreating "cowards". Wonder if they ever get to that.

The Chechens have already been fulfilling that role for months now, particularly in Bakhmut. ....and it's prisoners that they are forcing to the front lines at the end of their guns.
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
16,094
8,109
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3rd world country with nukes.. pretty much like a chimpanzee juggling grenades.

If we're smart, we have to make sure Russia never has the might to attack anyone else ever again.
Well, we can't completely stop Russia's ability to attack anyone - cause, again, nukes.
We can have a NATO base in UKR when this is done. That pretty much seals off Russia's western border since Lukashenko is already in a panic.

But, the RU army will be pretty much done by the time this war is over.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,675
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Maybe, maybe it's safe. Unless in the future a pro Russia party wins power, then maybe the West will go back to not feeling comfortable with a bunch of nukes in unstable hands right on it's borders

For a moment I thought the bolded bit was referring to the US.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,990
7,506
136
Holy shit!

I thought people on this forum were bonkers for Russian propaganda but this might just take the cake..

Medvedev predicts the future.

Looks like 2023 is going to be a big year for all of us!





But that'll happen only if Trump gets reelected. The moderate conservatives in the party will simply hop on the Trump trainwreck and go along for the ride like they all did when Trump was prez. thinking it's better to stay on the flaming train and stick it to the libs by helping Trump set up the Fourth Fascist Reich here in the USA. They'd all go along with it just like the good citizens of Germany did back in the Days of Hitler and simply ignore the travesties and tragedies their leadership will surely commit in order to seize and stay in power.

To a lesser extent it's happening right now and it will get worse if we let Trump and his clones like DeSantis get away with it. Florida and Texas are the test beds with racism, politically infested godliness, and the usual fear and hate of the unclean non-white sub-human being the fuel for the fires they want to spread nation-wide.

The Repubs will and are screaming how the libs will ruin the nation (that ALWAYS never happened) while they themselves are actually doing it in order to keep from losing the power and influence they presently have and are in abject fear of losing.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
27,738
26,901
136

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,246
37,668
136
Russians can't even predict they're going to need fuel, ammunition, maps, etc during an invasion of Ukraine so not so sure on prognostications about the Fourth Reich.
 
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ralfy

Senior member
Jul 22, 2013
484
53
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2014 wasn’t a coup lol. Nor did a diplomat decide who the leader of Ukraine would be.

Nor is a bunch of poorly constructed whataboutism convincing. The US does bad stuff, yeah. What parts of those countries did the US annex anyways? My memory is a bit spotty I guess.

But as usual, you beg the question.

Why you prefer the Russian style of autocracy, authoritarianism and sham elections to western democracies?

It was a coup:


This will document that the ‘new Cold War’ between the U.S. and Russia did not start, as the Western myth has it, with Russia’s involvement in the breakaway of Crimea and Donbass from Ukraine, after Ukraine — next door to Russia — had suddenly turned rabidly hostile toward Russia in February 2014. Ukraine’s replacing its democratically elected neutralist Government in February 2014, by a rabidly anti-Russian Government, was a violent event, which produced many corpses. It’s presented in The West as having been a ‘revolution’ instead of a coup; but whatever it was, it certainly generated the ‘new Cold War’ (the economic sanctions and NATO buildup on Russia’s borders); and, to know whether it was a coup, or instead a revolution, is to know what actually started the ‘new Cold War’, and why. So, this is historically very important.

Incontrovertible proofs will be presented here not only that it was a coup, but that this coup was organized by the U.S. Government — that the U.S. Government initiated the ‘new Cold War’; Russia’s Government reacted to America’s aggression, which aims to place nuclear missiles in Ukraine, less than ten minutes flight-time from Moscow. During the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis, America had reason to fear Soviet nuclear missiles 103 miles from America’s border. But, after America’s Ukrainian coup in 2014, Russia has reason to fear NATO nuclear missiles not just near, but on, Russia’s border. That would be catastrophic.

What you need to do to avoid whataboutism is to connect the two: the fact that the U.S. does "bad things" and what happened in 2014. Then see that in context of U.S. aggression across several decades.

Why does the U.S. act in this way? The answer ironically lies with the last sentence of your post. It's a narrative that stems from Reagan's "evil empire" speech and is seen in arguments raised by subsequent Presidents, like Dubya who argued that you're either with us or you're with the terrorists. That is, a bipolar view of the world where the U.S. is good and everyone who disagrees with it is evil. Hence, regime change in Ukraine, Zelensky's belief that Ukraine should be a "Big Israel," and even past calls by Biden, and recent calls by Graham, for the same for Russia.
 

ralfy

Senior member
Jul 22, 2013
484
53
91
How much is Silly Putty paying this stooge?

House Republican says Congress doesn't need to pass 'Democrat bills' that help Ukraine

thehill.com.ico
The Hill|52 minutes ago
Rep. Mike Turner (R-Ohio) on Sunday said Congress does not need to pass "Democrat bills" with big price tags to help Ukraine, saying the incoming Republican majority in the House will ...

.

Probably not as much as the counter-stooges, especially given the context of the matter, e.g., trillions spent by Pentagon agencies that have now failed audits five times in a row.

But it's all money to burn, right? Makes Silly Putty look like a rank amateur.
 

ralfy

Senior member
Jul 22, 2013
484
53
91
Lol.

So when is this collapse happening, ballpark?

Some say it started during the early 1980s, when debt and spending started to rise considerably thanks to Reagan. That, in turn, was needed to avert crises caused by chronic poor economic growth since the early '60s and trade deficits and real wages flattening out starting in the early 1970s.

But as long as the U.S. can continue the debt and spending binge, and convince the other countries that they can continue taking on more debt that's mathematically impossible to pay (something like $72 trillion in total debt plus over $170 trillion in unfunded liabilities), then the country should do fine.
 

ralfy

Senior member
Jul 22, 2013
484
53
91
Just take a moment to think about it.

Just think about it for a brief moment.

We have $68 billion in Ukraine.

Trump soaked us for $7.8 trillion.

Turns out, having a rich criminal steal $7.8 trillion was not enough to put us under, although it certainly did some nasty things to inflation.

A few billion doesn't matter one way or another.


If Trump can run up a few trillion to pad his buddies pockets, we can spend a few billion on freedom in Ukraine.

That's a drop in the bucket compared to similar issues. For example, the GAO reported that it could not account for over $12 trillion in bailouts to the rich back in 2012, and just recently the Pentagon failed its audit for the fifth time involving something like $2 trillion.

But for criminals, it's all passed on to the gullible public, so no problem, right?
 
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ralfy

Senior member
Jul 22, 2013
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We MUST stop pretending that we are not at war.
We must do everything to defeat our enemy.
For their aim is nothing less than the Genocide of everyone they can get ahold of, this they swear to us.


That's what neocon shills have been saying for decades, too. Remember what Florence Gaub said about Russians? They're barbarians.

Same thing with the Chinese, Iranians, Afghans, etc, right? Either regime change or bomb them back to the stone age.
 

ralfy

Senior member
Jul 22, 2013
484
53
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And why Poland is purchasing vast amounts of armaments.

Russia wanted to join NATO in the past because that ensured that it would be treated fairly. Ironically, so did Ukraine.

What the U.S. did from the late 1990s onward was reject because it needed to use NATO as a sword to antagonize Russia, and then manipulate Ukraine so that it would become part of the U.S. orbit of dominance.

Kennan warned the U.S. about this, that Russia would attack if treated such, and that's what happened. But here's the interesting part: the U.S. has been at war for much of its existence, and recent reports show that the U.S. defense industry is profiting from the current crisis, and even to the point that it is using the event to test weapons:


Finally, Johnson reported that the original title of the article referred to using Ukraine and Russia as lab rats.

What's beguiling is that that's now admitted by U.S. mainstream media, which is the main source of neocon shilling that the public wants to hear, and yet even this piece of news is ignored. Except, ironicall, by their European allies:

 

ralfy

Senior member
Jul 22, 2013
484
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91
Do you think the poor can eat HIMARS? I don't think that they are part of a balanced diet.

Much of the aid has consisted of cycling out our old stock that we would have either retired or refurbished. It's not like we have literally handed Ukraine $68 billion in cash.

That's what the necon shills are saying, but it looks like the defense industry intends to profit from this initiative. Two reports on this matter have been shared, with one involving Europeans now accusing the U.S. of doing so.

Finally, this should not be shocking because the U.S. has had a long history of offering aid with strings attached, and if it's military aid, with the defense industry profiting. That should be the case for this event:


Also, there are new armaments that should be tested. What better place to use them than in proxy wars?
 

ralfy

Senior member
Jul 22, 2013
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If it were not for Putin's threat of unleashing WW III nuclear Armageddon, the US and others would have supplied weapons that would have prevented this. Russia is the world's bad boy and needs to be spanked into submission. NATO allies' (and others') weapons & supplies and continuing strangling of the Russian economy and imperialist proclivities via sanctions will get the job done eventually. Reducing dependencies on Russian oil and gas will speed it up.

That's part of neocon shrillery, based on Reagan, and followed through by Bush: all countries are bad if they don't follow U.S.-style liberal democracy and free markets. And they, and only they, are imperialists. The U.S. can never be that due to American exceptionalism, which argues that the U.S. is the greatest country in the world and thus can never be at fault.

Makes you wonder why liberal hawks hate their opponents so much when both are very much alike.

But I double that these points will even be acknowledged, as the magic word needed to avoid any views of Americanism is whataboutism.
 
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ralfy

Senior member
Jul 22, 2013
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NATO commits to future Ukraine membership, drums up aid

www.nbcnews.com.ico
NBC News|19 minutes ago
I think what he's afraid of is democracy and freedom," the alliance's Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said of Russian President Vladimir Putin.


.....


It's what all authoritarians and dictators are afraid of.

Brilliant. The same NATO that kept dangling the carrot and the same EU that imposed neoliberal policies on Ukraine which ironically remain prominent today (when did one ever see a war economy that decides to privatize?) now promise to Ukraine what caused problems for Ukraine in the first place!

What will these geniuses think of next?
 

ralfy

Senior member
Jul 22, 2013
484
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Oh my. "Quite honestly," that's funny, considering the wake of falsehoods and lies trailing behind you.

Dude you've done nothing in this thread but prove you are full of shit - why are you still dispensing your worthless analysis to people laughing at you? You don't even know basic info about NATO and European history, who is it that you think cares what you think about Syria? lol That's aside from your Russian delusions I mean.

How old are you? Are you actually a low information 15 year old, or is it an act?

It was Kennan who came up with the policy of using NATO as a shield against the Soviet Union, and then by the late 1990s warned the U.S. of using NATO as a sword against Russia. Dubya ignored him (some say it started with Clinton), and that only increased U.S. neocon resolve.

Sachs explains it briefly, but I won't be surprised if he's laughed at by the anons of this thread just like they did Mearsheimer:


The war in Ukraine is the culmination of a 30-year project of the American neoconservative movement. The Biden Administration is packed with the same neocons who championed the US wars of choice in Serbia (1999), Afghanistan (2001), Iraq (2003), Syria (2011), Libya (2011), and who did so much to provoke Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. The neocon track record is one of unmitigated disaster, yet Biden has staffed his team with neocons. As a result, Biden is steering Ukraine, the US, and the European Union towards yet another geopolitical debacle. If Europe has any insight, it will separate itself from these US foreign policy debacles.

The neocon movement emerged in the 1970s around a group of public intellectuals, several of whom were influenced by University of Chicago political scientist Leo Strauss and Yale University classicist Donald Kagan. Neocon leaders included Norman Podhoretz, Irving Kristol, Paul Wolfowitz, Robert Kagan (son of Donald), Frederick Kagan (son of Donald), Victoria Nuland (wife of Robert), Elliott Abrams, and Kimberley Allen Kagan (wife of Frederick).

But many can't laugh this off. Why? Because the fact that the U.S. is the most warlike in the world and has engaged in intervention, disruption, assassinations, coups, etc., in many countries is not questionable. So they make asides, referring to to some weird view that Russia wants to form a new empire (actually, they make the same claims about China), and that raising this points is merely part of whataboutism. Then they announce that defense spending isn't that big or that there can only be a binary view of the world: one side is good and the other is evil, and the U.S. is good, end of story.

Or they just point out that others are ignoramuses or children; anything to just avoid getting into the heart of the matter.
 

ralfy

Senior member
Jul 22, 2013
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Good, Ukrainians need to drop the hammer on this Russian offensive, finish off that orc morale. Glad to hear those French launchers showed up, hope they're already sending hate downrange. Prof Mike Clark on Sky News was just talking about how some Wagner element actually gained some ground south of Bakhmut. Looks like Russia has really dug into Eastern Kherson Oblast too. Fortifying their lines of communication too, they know the attacks will be deep. sauce

It's too bad 35mm isn't used by the States, wish we could send them a load to tide them over until Nammo can churn it out in quantity. We should send them vintage 40mm AA guns for vehicle mounting, that'd work great on those Iranian drones and we have plenty of 40mm to spare.

Liberal hawks will agree with you. Reminds me of one interview where a retired military officer, I think, pointed out early on that the Russians don't have what it takes to go against their Ukrainian brothers because if that were the U.S., Ukraine would have been bombed back to the stone age by Day One.

In the end, it makes you wonder given that "orc morale" if that interviewee ever realized the irony of his statements. It's like Gen. Turgidson from Strangelove praising the killing power of his "boys".

And if views of Putin and Russians given by neocons are right, then ironically Putin would agree with you.