Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Medvedev: NATO Won't Step in If Russia Uses Nuclear Weapons in Ukraine

So, Russia does not believe MAD exists. They feel free to use nukes at their discretion.
Also, Russia vows to use nukes to "defend" the new territory it claims.

All I can say is, Defcon 1. Now.
I would not take this as any indication of what Russia believes. They relentlessly lie about literally everything.

My guess as to Russia’s tactics now is to attempt to get out of this mess through escalation. This shambolic mobilization doesn’t seem aimed at winning the war so much as showing their willingness to keep fighting. Similarly I view their endless statements about nuking people to be attempts to convince the west that Russia is fine with continuing to escalate.

The main issues with using nukes in Ukraine are
1) they probably wouldn’t change the course of the war

2) they will invite a large western response and Russia knows this. We can obliterate their army and navy whenever we want.
 

Michael

Elite member
Nov 19, 1999
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Draft dodgers were pardoned by Carter. Deserters (those already in the service when they fled) are still pro forma liable for prosecution.

Canadians, who have a long tradition of service and volunteering to serve, were not especially impressed by people fleeing military service. I don't think the USA went to court in Canada to force Canada to send any back, though.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
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Canadians, who have a long tradition of service and volunteering to serve, were not especially impressed by people fleeing military service. I don't think the USA went to court in Canada to force Canada to send any back, though.
Actually, those Americans fleeing this war were welcomed wholeheartedly. The Canadian government crucially welcomed them as immigrants, and not deserters.

Conversely, iirc, about 30,000 Canadians volunteered to join our army and go fight in 'Nam.
 

Michael

Elite member
Nov 19, 1999
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Actually, those Americans fleeing this war were welcomed wholeheartedly. The Canadian government crucially welcomed them as immigrants, and not deserters.

Conversely, iirc, about 30,000 Canadians volunteered to join our army and go fight in 'Nam.


The government just tried to stay quiet. In my family and friend group with multiple relatives (fathers and uncles) serving in WW2 and the 30K that went from Canada to serve in the US Army, we just were polite and didn't bring it up. There was not a large and active anti-Vietnam War political movement in Canada.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
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The government just tried to stay quiet. In my family and friend group with multiple relatives (fathers and uncles) serving in WW2 and the 30K that went from Canada to serve in the US Army, we just were polite and didn't bring it up. There was not a large and active anti-Vietnam War political movement in Canada.
The Canadian government did a little more than just "try to stay quiet." They were not crazy about our prosecution of the war, and remained officially neutral. Troops from Korea, Australia, New Zealand, the Philippines and Thailand fought alongside us. But there were NO Canadian forces in 'Nam.

Not only did they crucially, by law, consider American draft dodgers as immigrants, granting them full legal status, but, right from your Wiki link:

"The Canadian government initially refused to admit deserters who could not prove that they had been discharged from American military service; this would change in 1968.[1] On May 22, 1969, Ottawa announced that immigration officials would not and could not ask about immigration applicants' military status if they showed up at the border seeking permanent residence in Canada.[14]"

Accepting deserters from our Army was not exactly "remaining quiet." They thought 'Nam was a bloody folly. They were right.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,831
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Homebrew self propelled assault guns for the TDF courtesy the Ukrainian gas company



I was just reading about those the other day, gotta love it when necessity creates innovation. Makes me think of Bazooka Charlie from WW2, or the tank traps-turned into teeth and mounted to Shermans to push through the bocage. This home grown vehicle speaks to how well Ukraine understands the necessity of shoot n scoot. The one I saw earlier didn't have the side protection for gun crew, it was just the front plate from the field piece. Now it's updated already, days later. Glad to see they're a little safer from small arms and shrapnel. Takes brave men to work guns out in the open like that.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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I was just reading about those the other day, gotta love it when necessity creates innovation. Makes me think of Bazooka Charlie from WW2, or the tank traps-turned into teeth and mounted to Shermans to push through the bocage. This home grown vehicle speaks to how well Ukraine understands the necessity of shoot n scoot. The one I saw earlier didn't have the side protection for gun crew, updated already! Glad to see they're a little safer from small arms and shrapnel. Takes brave men to work guns out in the open like that.

Yeah they iterated some improvements it sounds like. It may not be the most elegant solution but it’s a simple way to give the TDF more firepower with stuff at hand.
 
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Michael

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Nov 19, 1999
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Middle class Americans fleeing to Canada is vastly different than what Russians are facing now. It is one thing to flee your country with elected leaders. Another when you are facing a dictator.
 

Racan

Golden Member
Sep 22, 2012
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Some remarkable turnout numbers made up by Russia ~ considering about half of Zaporizhia oblast isn't even under Russian control, and in Donetsk the Russians killed, kidnapped into Russia, or forced to flee way more than 10% of the population (see: Mariupol, formerly the second largest city...)

Yup, looks completely legit :laughing:
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
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Absolutely no training for these guys Poor guy knows the odds he's looking at, almost in tears.

No shooting, no squad/clearing tactics, no comms training, nothing. Wtf are they supposed to do?

It's like Moscow wants human sacrifices on a huge scale. 3rd Army got eviscerated then curb stomped, should be a theme moving forward. Poor bastards. Use that ghetto Afghani AK on your brass, then surrender asap. Life can be more than being cannon fodder for bratva. Looks like the generals are going to let Putin kill you and ruin the country all he wants. You should act accordingly.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,831
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I would not take this as any indication of what Russia believes. They relentlessly lie about literally everything.

My guess as to Russia’s tactics now is to attempt to get out of this mess through escalation. This shambolic mobilization doesn’t seem aimed at winning the war so much as showing their willingness to keep fighting. Similarly I view their endless statements about nuking people to be attempts to convince the west that Russia is fine with continuing to escalate.

The main issues with using nukes in Ukraine are
1) they probably wouldn’t change the course of the war

2) they will invite a large western response and Russia knows this. We can obliterate their army and navy whenever we want.

I tend to agree for the most part, with minor exceptions. Putin could play the escalation further with a nuclear "accident" that comes with plausible deniability. Perhaps a different scheme but one that still isn't a direct attack via normal tactics. Definitely agree with you regarding turning what remains of their Army into charred fertilizer, but disagree on the Navy part as boomers and attack subs can be hard to find, even by our Navy.

Russians have demonstrated some pretty bone headed thinking lately, I certainly hope they comprehend what NATO can do if it decides it should. Article 5 is not a joke or idle threat, means even more now with Finland signed up. Russians better hope Putler is bluffing.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
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I tend to agree for the most part, with minor exceptions. Putin could play the escalation further with a nuclear "accident" that comes with plausible deniability. Perhaps a different scheme but one that still isn't a direct attack via normal tactics. Definitely agree with you regarding turning what remains of their Army into charred fertilizer, but disagree on the Navy part as boomers and attack subs can be hard to find, even by our Navy.

Russians have demonstrated some pretty bone headed thinking lately, I certainly hope they comprehend what NATO can do if it decides it should. Article 5 is not a joke or idle threat, means even more now with Finland signed up. Russians better hope Putler is bluffing.
A dirty bomb detonated in one of the major contested cities would be a perfect example of this. It'll probably kill more Russian soldiers than Ukrainian, and provide an eye-rolley 'now we have an excuse to use nuclear weapons'.
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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The government just tried to stay quiet. In my family and friend group with multiple relatives (fathers and uncles) serving in WW2 and the 30K that went from Canada to serve in the US Army, we just were polite and didn't bring it up. There was not a large and active anti-Vietnam War political movement in Canada.

Perhaps you had a unique experience. I never saw/heard any animus from anyone regarding the DDs. In fact, most seemed proud that we took them in.