Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

[K1052]

I temporarily have twitter blocked because I don't want to accidentally reactive my account. So, what is going on here? The Germans already implemented an indefinite hold on NS 2, what is the US actually sanctioning?

Thx.

The Germans halted certification before it could come online, physically it is complete. The US has now sanctioned the company and its officers so anybody doing business with them would be subject to prosecution. It looks increasingly like the Germans are really doing an about face on their plans and the pipeline will never operate.

 

[fskimospy]

If Taiwan wanted to join NATO, do you think it would be a good idea to say yes to that? Can you not see a parallel to what is happening in Ukraine today?

You keep coming up with more and more scenarios to avoid dealing with the one at hand. Three of Russia's neighbors are already in NATO, the idea that a fourth even thinking about it (with no major progress towards doing so) merits invasion right now is an obvious lie.

You don't have to fall for Russia's lies. Remember, they lie about literally everything.

When you say let's turn this into their second Afghanistan, it sounds more like you are willing to sacrifice Ukraine to punish Russia.

How is that? In both cases Russia is attacking a neighboring country. Ukraine isn't being 'sacrificed', it is being invaded by an aggressive neighbor. As far as I can tell Ukraine wants to fight back so why not give them the weapons to do so? They don't have to use them if they don't want to.

 

[AtenRa]

Aye, we will clearly not act to stop Russia. This is why, having eight years to prepare, we still do not have a military that can match Russia in eastern Europe. Putin knows we will complain, but we will not act.

Yea , US was crying about that 2% spending on military. Europeans dont want to spend on war machines anymore, they prefer to play economic suctions because simple put it they don't feel threaten now.
You can see who is feeling threated in EU by taking a look at the military spending of each country.

 

[pauldun170]

The start of all this was Ukraine trying to get it's groove on with European Union with the European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement.
After a conversation with Moscow, after years steering Ukraine toward tighter integration with the EU, Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych announced he was suspending preparations for signing an association agreement in Vilnius, which would have opened borders to goods and set the stage for travel restrictions to be eased.
The People of Ukraine told him to go fuck himself.
Protests began and Yanukovych got the boot.
Putin seeing how citizens of Ukraine pushing out a stooge and embracing the west saw this as a huge risk in that it might inspire other Russian aligned regimes to do the same.
Specifically regimes with natural resources Russia hoped to use to by lots of midget giraffes and gold picture frames.
Putin saw this new awesome sauce of destabilization and grabbed Crimea.
End goal is to take advantage of a Ukraine in limbo and use the playbooks like they used in Belarus and Georgia
Belarus, the type of country where the government hijacks airplanes to kidnap people.
Georgia, the country that Russia invaded in 2008 and guess what they did in that conflict? Russia formally recognized South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent states .

 

[K1052]

As expected

https://twitter.com/x/status/1496591864329347084

 

[HomerJS]

CNN: It's time to admit it: Mitt Romney was right about Russia​

The real issue is that NATO is STILL caught flatfooted in 2022 and is unable to mount an effective military force in eastern Europe. 2014 should have been a call to arms, necessitating a military mobilization and forward deployment along the Ukrainian border. To give us options this day. But it seems no one in western civilization has done a damn thing of consequence on this subject.

I disagree with CNN. Reasons:

The answer to that question is fluid. Can easily change from year to year.
Even today people can argue it's Russia but that could easily change to China

 

[HomerJS]

As expected

https://twitter.com/x/status/1496591864329347084

Putin orders those guys to write him a help letter as a predicate? Who didn't see that coming.

 

[manly]

Russia lost their capital because the USSR collapsed, due to mismanagement of the USSR. Nobody 'stole' it from them and they don't 'deserve' it back. If their opinion is that Ukraine should be part of Russia again, then they should treat the Ukrainian government and peoples with respect, and offer a convincing argument as to why they might be rejoined. Rolling tanks into the country isn't the way. Bombing its citizens into compliance isn't the way.

Dude is just parroting Vladimir Putin at this point. Kyiv was not the capital of Russia, so it's preposterous to say Russia lost its capital and wants her back. There are no doubt strong cultural ties between the nations, but that is not a legal justification for Putin's maneuvering to control Ukraine as a puppet state.

If cultural ties were the dominant factor, the UK could want its American colonies back and we should oblige. This is a silly argument, and a non-starter.

 

[hal2kilo]

I didnt say anything about war and conquering Ukraine, I said they dont want to see Ukraine and especially Kyiv under NATO.



It doesnt matter if it is 30 or 100 years or even 200 years, Russians will always consider Kyiv as Russia.



Actually that is exactly what separatists have taken advantage off, they suggest the vast majority of people living in east Ukraine wants to be independent. So be careful when you talking about democracy and what people want, it is easy to take advantage of the situation and things could take a nasty turn.

Sounds like a Russian perception problem, not a Ukrainian problem.

 

[hal2kilo]

Hopefully. I mean, his economy is smaller than Brazil's and I'm pretty sure NATO could defeat Brazil. Russia is just cruising on its Cold War rep, and hopes people still think it's as awesome as it used to be.

They got nukes. That is all.

 

[dullard]

Kyiv was not the capital of Russia, so it's preposterous to say Russia lost its capital and wants her back.

History is a mix of changing borders, cultures, etc., so there is no one single "capital of Russia" for all of time. But one could make a strong argument that the origin of the Russian state was in Kievan Rus'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus' But then, Ukraine and Belarus also have that same claim.

 

[nOOky]

Where are the Russian citizenry and the military leaders with any sack in that country? The world knows that the troops themselves don't have much of a stomach to invade Ukraine. The citizens are tired of being beaten down economically and socially because of Putin's grip on the country. They will be the ones to suffer.

There should be a huge propaganda campaign aimed at these people by the neighboring countries and the world letting them know the benefits of not being an isolated rogue state, but instead a prosperous country that gets along and trades with it's neighbors and actually progresses.

 

[hal2kilo]

History is a mix of changing borders, cultures, etc., so there is no one single "capital of Russia" for all of time. But one could make a strong argument that the origin of the Russian state was in Kievan Rus'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus' But then, Ukraine and Belarus also have that same claim.

Don't the Vikings have any legitimate claims? /s

 

[manly]

History is a mix of changing borders, cultures, etc., so there is no one single "capital of Russia" for all of time. But one could make a strong argument that the origin of the Russian state was in Kievan Rus'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus' But then, Ukraine and Belarus also have that same claim.

I'm aware of the history, but since Kyiv preceded Moscow by centuries, does Ukraine have a historical claim to be the mother of modern Russia? The strong argument you mention is more of a cultural one than a political one as the Mongols conquered and depopulated Kievan Rus' in the 13th century.

Saying that Russia has its roots in Kievan Rus' is very different from the poster saying Russia's capital was Kyiv and stripped away from her when the USSR dissolved. Whether the average Russian citizen feels this way, or felt this way before Putin, I have no idea. The roots of England were the migrating Angles and Saxons, but the UK would find it pretty difficult to claim Schleswig-Holstein today.

 

[AtenRa]

History is a mix of changing borders, cultures, etc., so there is no one single "capital of Russia" for all of time. But one could make a strong argument that the origin of the Russian state was in Kievan Rus'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus' But then, Ukraine and Belarus also have that same claim.

A lot o people in USA dont understand that , first because USA is only 500+ years old and secondly they were privileged to never be attacked on their soil, never loose an inch of soil and never been occupied by a foreign country/enemy.
There is not a single country in Europe that haven't experienced at least one , two or all of the above in the last 2000 years. So Americans cannot actually perceive what it is to lose a holy city, or your ancient capital, or your ancestors home town etc.

 

[K1052]

they were privileged to never be attacked on their soil

*stares in War of 1812 and Pearl Harbor*

 

[dullard]

I'm aware of the history, but since Kyiv preceded Moscow by centuries, does Ukraine have a historical claim to be the mother of modern Russia? The strong argument you mention is more of a cultural one than a political one as the Mongols conquered and depopulated Kievan Rus' in the 13th century.

Saying that Russia has its roots in Kievan Rus' is very different from the poster saying Russia's capital was Kyiv and stripped away from her when the USSR dissolved. Whether the average Russian citizen feels this way, or felt this way before Putin, I have no idea. The roots of England were the migrating Angles and Saxons, but the UK would find it pretty difficult to claim Schleswig-Holstein today.

Ultimately, the argument falls on its face. If the true goal was to unite the Russian people with Kyiv, then just cede Russia to Ukraine. They would be united today--problem solved. Notice, that isn't what is happening. Putin wants power--not to restore history.

 

[AtenRa]

I'm aware of the history, but since Kyiv preceded Moscow by centuries, does Ukraine have a historical claim to be the mother of modern Russia? The strong argument you mention is more of a cultural one than a political one as the Mongols conquered and depopulated Kievan Rus' in the 13th century.

Saying that Russia has its roots in Kievan Rus' is very different from the poster saying Russia's capital was Kyiv and stripped away from her when the USSR dissolved. Whether the average Russian citizen feels this way, or felt this way before Putin, I have no idea. The roots of England were the migrating Angles and Saxons, but the UK would find it pretty difficult to claim Schleswig-Holstein today.

I said it would be like losing their capital not that Russia's capital was Kyiv. It was to emphasize how they perceive Kyiv and how different is the way of thinking between them and US for that place.

 

[AtenRa]

*stares in War of 1812 and Pearl Harbor*

Yea forgot about 1812 and pearl, I would also consider the 9 11 as a direct attack on American soil as well.

The point is you guys only had one major war in your soil back in 1812, the rest was only a single attack in perl and the last one an attack in a few buildings. You have never lost a town or a state that now is not part of your country.

 

[Roger Wilco]

“
The White House believes that Russian President Vladimir Putin was caught off guard by several U.S. and NATO decisions and that he is now being forced to improvise because of them, a spokeswoman told reporters Wednesday.
“Our assessment is that President Putin did not expect the United States to have the level of information that we have, did not expect us to put out this amount of information that we have put out, and he did not expect the global community to be as unified,” White House press secretary Jen Psaki said on Wednesday.
“What we’re seeing now, our assessment is that [Putin] is improvising, adapting, and having to respond and adapt his own actions ... even as we are responding to him,” she said.”

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Where are the Russian citizenry and the military leaders with any sack in that country?

They got themselves defenstrated over the last few years/decades.

 

[K1052]

Russia has NOTAM'd their border with Ukraine.

Zelensky appeals to Russian people on TV in Russian language to prevent the war Putin is bringing.

Really looks like this thing is on the precipice now.

 

[manly]

I said it would be like losing their capital not that Russia's capital was Kyiv. It was to emphasize how they perceive Kyiv and how different is the way of thinking between them and US for that place.

This is how Putin perceives Ukraine, but your claim of this is how Russian civilians perceive Kyiv is dubious. As limited as they are, opinion polls of Russians do not reveal an appetite to invade Ukraine. On the subject of how Russians feel about Ukraine itself, it's hard to find English sources. The following survey in 2015 shows that although Russians saw Ukraine as a "basket case," many wanted nothing to do with Ukraine's political affairs.

Perhaps because so many Russians see Ukraine as a basket case, a strong plurality expressed opposition to any kind of Russian intervention in its affairs. Asked what Russia should do and given a list of options, a whole 44 percent replied “nothing,” and 3 percent even declared that Russia should help Ukraine join the European Union. Only 27 percent thought Russia should be involved in helping Ukraine elect a new pro-Russian government, a measly 4 percent wanted to help it join the Russian-led Eurasian Union, and just 12 percent thought Russia should actively try to divide it up. A 10th of the survey respondents said the question was too difficult to answer. In response to a separate question, a large majority also thought Russia should not hinder Ukraine’s efforts to join the European Union.

Perhaps public opinion has changed in 5 years, but if Russians would never allow Kyiv to join the West as you assert, that would have already been apparent in 2015 after the annexation of Crimea (which was popular to Russians).

Edit: (somehow forgot the sources earlier, you'll have to pierce through the paywall)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ussians-see-ukraine-as-an-illegitimate-state/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...e-about-invade-ukraine-russians-dont-want-it/

“
The White House believes that Russian President Vladimir Putin was caught off guard by several U.S. and NATO decisions and that he is now being forced to improvise because of them, a spokeswoman told reporters Wednesday.
“Our assessment is that President Putin did not expect the United States to have the level of information that we have, did not expect us to put out this amount of information that we have put out, and he did not expect the global community to be as unified,” White House press secretary Jen Psaki said on Wednesday.
“What we’re seeing now, our assessment is that [Putin] is improvising, adapting, and having to respond and adapt his own actions ... even as we are responding to him,” she said.”

As Russian tanks roll in to Donbas, I don't really agree with broadcasting "our assessment."

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Yea forgot about 1812 and pearl, I would also consider the 9 11 as a direct attack on American soil as well.

The point is you guys only had one major war in your soil back in 1812, the rest was only a single attack in perl and the last one an attack in a few buildings. You have never lost a town or a state that now is not part of your country.

Civil war says hello too.

Don't forget those bastards burning down the first white house too.

 

[Jaskalas]

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is not a trigger for NATO all gather and form Voltron.

Proving an exact point that needs to be made. "We" have some 12,000 troops scattered around in various countries in the region. But NATO is not a united force. This is why Russia can move in and take, enslave, torture and kill whoever it wants. 44 million Europeans, who cares eh? A sacrifice to our inability. The West has shown weakness, and with that abdication, a new superpower will rise in the east.

"We" have lost our next fight before it even began.