Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
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How does a supposed 'world military power' have such a seemingly small navy?

Many pages back somebody commented on where their subs were, then IF there are any.

What are their subs going to do with Ukraine having no navy of note?

Their entire navy is fairly big, but dispersed due to their geography.
They really have no naval rivals in the Black Sea so they don’t need much there. They also have a Baltic fleet, northern fleet, and eastern fleet.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
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How does a supposed 'world military power' have such a seemingly small navy?

Many pages back somebody commented on where their subs were, then IF there are any.
Navies are really, really expensive to maintain, and they're really only relevant if you're trying to project power. There's a reason the US has the largest navy, and very few weaponized defenses in-country (relatively speaking).
 
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Dave_5k

Golden Member
May 23, 2017
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Is a single switchblade drone powerful enough to take out a field ammo depot? I can't imagine those things are reinforced enough, eh? I guess they don't have enough range to reach them?
Switchblade 300 (which I'm confident is all that is currently in Ukraine), almost certainly not - often described as a flying shotgun, and lacks the legs to get there.

Once Switchblade 600 arrives, that changes - while still a small payload, large enough explosion to take out armored vehicles should also be large enough to detonate ammo depot. And minimum of 40km range, possibly up to 90km if you believe the marketing materials :) (Edit: though looking at map, even 90 km won't let Ukraine reach any of Crimea right now, but would certainly help in Donbas).
 
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dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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Tell me more about this "tenet" of NATO membership.
You can start by reading article 1 of the North Atlantic Treaty
The Parties undertake, as set forth in the Charter of the United Nations, to settle any international dispute in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations.

Military dispute resolutions are possible, see Article 5. It is just that military resolutions should be the last resort or for defense, not the first resort for offense. Article 5 is how NATO justified the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as a defense against the 911 attacks. Although that was a historically sketchy decision, that is the decision they made in less than one day from the first 911 attack. When you are in the middle of an attack, you don't get the benefit of 20-20 hindsight.
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
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A small portion of the total that wasn't "properly" hidden behind completely invisible shell companies - where most of the big wealth is hidden. The US is now a top (ranked #2 in the world) destination for hiding assets. I wouldn't be overly surprised if there were more than $100 billion from Russia still hidden in completely anonymous US shell companies - and not identified or frozen.
If I'm not mistaken there's a couple of states that have been openly accepting these types of investments (upper mid-west at least one). And you know which party is in control.
 

Dave_5k

Golden Member
May 23, 2017
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What are their subs going to do with Ukraine having no navy of note?

Their entire navy is fairly big, but dispersed due to their geography.
They really have no naval rivals in the Black Sea so they don’t need much there. They also have a Baltic fleet, northern fleet, and eastern fleet.
The subs are there to counter NATO (and possibly to anonymously sink merchant shipping, but in this case, Russia hasn't even tried to be anonymous).

I read somewhere that only 1 of the subs was actually in the Black Sea, at least 3 others over in the Med where there actually are US / NATO surface combatants to threaten.
 

RnR_au

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2021
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Dying might be better than what the Russians might do to them.
They might be roughed up a little, but I believe at least 3 prisoner exchanges has occurred already between Russia and Ukraine. My hope is that whatever remaining ammo they had left they gave to their comrades that managed to link up with the Asov's, and these surrendering marines will be put back into the fight when/if there is another prisoner swap.
 

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
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They might be roughed up a little, but I believe at least 3 prisoner exchanges has occurred already between Russia and Ukraine. My hope is that whatever remaining ammo they had left they gave to their comrades that managed to link up with the Asov's, and these surrendering marines will be put back into the fight when/if there is another prisoner swap.

This particular fight worries me because Azov is active and there's been a lot of Russian talk about no quarter for Azov. Pretty easy for them to deem anyone there Azov and execute them for whatever supposed crimes.
 

JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
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Article 5 is how NATO justified the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as a defense against the 911 attacks.
I don't think Iraq was under Article 5. Bush used WMDs excuse to go after Iraq not links of Al-Qaeda. The legal aspect of it came through the UN SC.
 
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Dave_5k

Golden Member
May 23, 2017
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This particular fight worries me because Azov is active and there's been a lot of Russian talk about no quarter for Azov. Pretty easy for them to deem anyone there Azov and execute them for whatever supposed crimes.
Well, in the North, they just executed every male anyway, civilian or military. (And raped then executed most of the girls and women also). But the South has been a bit more civilized by Russian standards ~ they only kidnap mayors, deport tens of thousands of civilians and "orphans" to the far reaches of Russia, and level cities with no regard for civilian casualties if they don't surrender. But no reports (yet) of widespread murder, pillage, and rape from the South which was a totally separate chain of command.
 

Iron Woode

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Dave_5k

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May 23, 2017
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Seems some posters pointed out my previous post was not accurate.

I posted what the news outlets are getting. Take it with a grain of salt. I am doing my best.

also, there is this:

No worries, updates with source are always of interest. Particularly when most of us are relying on twitter as a "reference", everyone should be fully aware that such news is quite uncertain... but more "official" news sources are often trailing twitter by 12-24 hours, and haven't been a whole lot more reliable than some of the reliable twitter feeds...
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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Yikes whatever happened it was bad enough for the Russians to abandon ship. That’s likely not a usable asset in the near future even if it doesn’t sink.
 

Dave_5k

Golden Member
May 23, 2017
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Yikes whatever happened it was bad enough for the Russians to abandon ship. That’s likely not a usable asset in the near future even if it doesn’t sink.
With ammunition stores exploding, I'm thinking the Russian ministry claims of "the crew were completely evacuated" almost certainly is including those evacuated to Davy Jones' Locker. 510 crew reportedly on board.
 
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