Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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Interesting interviews with Ukrainian pilots regarding the MiGs.

But Juice and others have said the weapons that countries have discussed transferring to Ukraine — particularly Russian-made MiG-29 fighters and U.S.-made Stinger antiaircraft missiles — won’t help Kyiv’s air force tip the scales in its favor. The gap between the weapons Ukraine wants and what Western countries are willing to supply has become a key tension nearly two months into the fighting.

Nowhere is that divide more evident than in the proposed air materiel transfers. Juice flies MiG-29s, which are a Soviet-era staple of the Ukrainian air force. But he said Ukrainian pilots are “just targets” for Russian adversaries who fly far more advanced jets. Obtaining more outdated MiGs would not improve Ukraine’s position in the skies, he said.

We have losses almost everyday in our air force,” he added. “You won’t see this on TV because everything is classified right now, but actually we have a lot of losses. That’s why we need to be technically equal with the Russians. Just our mental advantage is not enough to fight with these technologies.”

The pilots were also critical of the effectiveness of Stinger antiaircraft missiles, which have been part of U.S. aid packages. Nomad said that “it’s almost impossible” to hit an agile, fast-moving Russian jet with the missiles. Carlisle agreed, adding that Stingers aren’t designed to take down fighters — they’re intended to be used against helicopters and other slow-moving, low-flying aircraft.

If Western countries are hesitant to give Ukraine modern jets its pilots haven’t trained on, Juice said they should at least consider sending more advanced air-defense systems. He said those are much easier to learn how to operate.

Wondering if this is also the reasoning for abandoning the attack helicopter shipments from the U.S.

Buy them NASAMS instead.
 
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Dave_5k

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Same booster they've been using for 50 years.
50-60 years ago, the Soviets had a few amazing rocket engineers. This included Sergei Korolev - born in what is now Ukraine, and grew up in Odesa - who led Sputnik development as well as developed the first ICBM, and the engineering firm he headed developed the Soyuz rocket. All amazing accomplishments following an extended stay in Stalin's gulags.
 
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Dave_5k

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That is what Moscow is saying.

Azov is saying something different.

This appears to be a case where "both sides" are basically telling the truth - there were almost certainly a number of Ukrainians captured from that 36th Ukrainian Marine Brigade which was out of ammo and supplies, but some elements of the brigade were able to break out from encirclement to join up with remaining Azov Battalion forces. How many of each is not claimed/reported by either side as far as I've seen.
 
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Roger Wilco

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Mar 20, 2017
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Another report of the Moskva getting hit in the Black Sea.

An adviser to the head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine said on Telegram: "Something exploded. The cruiser "Moskva" almost went to the bottom.


And another confirmation.

UPDATE: Ex-People's Deputy Serhiy Vysotskyi says: "It was confirmed to me: two missiles of the Ukrainian anti-ship complex "Neptune" defeated the flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet cruiser "Moscow"! Two hits out of two!"
 
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K1052

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Aug 21, 2003
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Some reports Zuzana 2 155mm self propelled artillery is in Ukraine. Excellent guns.

Curious to see if we send towed guns or Paladins (which we have lots of). Maybe both.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
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Another report of the Moskva getting hit in the Black Sea.

An adviser to the head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine said on Telegram: "Something exploded. The cruiser "Moskva" almost went to the bottom.


And another confirmation.

UPDATE: Ex-People's Deputy Serhiy Vysotskyi says: "It was confirmed to me: two missiles of the Ukrainian anti-ship complex "Neptune" defeated the flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet cruiser "Moscow"! Two hits out of two!"

Some sub .. maybe.. can we really ever know for sure?
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
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Heck, I was just googling. I thought TOWs were obsolete. The latest version isn't even wire guided but not sure if it's true F and F technology. Hadn't seen one mention of them in the previous posts. The only reason I was thinking about it was because of one of the guys in the shop I used to support was a weekend warrior that taught how to use the TOW. It was hard to imagine that person teaching anybody anything. We used to call him Sargent Rock.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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Heck, I was just googling. I thought TOWs were obsolete. The latest version isn't even wire guided but not sure if it's true F and F technology. Hadn't seen one mention of them in the previous posts. The only reason I was thinking about it was because of one of the guys in the shop I used to support was a weekend warrior that taught how to use the TOW. It was hard to imagine that person teaching anybody anything. We used to call him Sargent Rock.

TOWs saw extensive use in Syria and are still in inventory IIRC. We’ve got a bunch of Hummers with launchers attached…
 

Dave_5k

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May 23, 2017
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Some sub .. maybe.. can we really ever know for sure?
Next clear weather commercial satellite pass we should know for sure if it actually sank (and this is not just propaganda/wishful thinking) ~ but as for real cause, probably not going to be able to confirm until after war ~ unless one of the US surveillance aircraft was in range & tracked missiles. And even then only if the US chooses to confirm, which is unlikely to happen.
 
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