Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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cytg111 said:
Please please please let this happen…
Or maybe drag it out another week and get a better deal? I would think Ukraine wants some assurance and reparations?
Click to expand...
If Ukraine can get this deal they should take it immediately. As we’ve seen over the last month anything can happen in war and this amounts to near total victory for Ukraine.
 
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Fanatical Meat

Fanatical Meat

Lifer
Feb 4, 2009
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vi edit said:
How do some of the more complicated systems work for the handoff? IE, the missile defense systems that are likely all in English. How does one get trained on that during an active conflict quick enough for it to be effective? The logistics of the arms smuggling is one of the few "neat" parts of this whole disaster.
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moments before this post, I heard a dude on the radio I think he is a retired colonel(?) say these systems are pretty easy to use and there are simplified “crash courses” that can be given to people on how to operate them.
Maintenance is a steeper learning curve but there is time for that.
 
vi edit

vi edit

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Oct 28, 1999
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My wife and I were talking about the post-conflict Ukraine assuming victory and just the mess that country will have to deal with.

Like right now we are fixated on just a binary win/loss getting Russia out. But the long term clean up Ukraine will face. Those 3 million people that left, how many have homes let alone a village to come back to. All of the dud mortars/missiles/mines/military garbage left. Bodies. Destroyed infrastructure. Just the entirety of chaos and destruction we can't really fathom. And then you have the civil concern of what to do with Russian apologists still in your borders.

Even victory is going to be bittersweet for that poor country to pick up the shambles it's left with.
 
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SMOGZINN

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
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cytg111 said:
But this is the calculus that doesnt add up to me.
Putin cant win this war.
Lets play the scenario where Putin cant win this war, the Ukraine resolve is too strong and Russian conscripts too weak.
- Now Russia has depleted its resources in terms of hardware, finance and manpower.
- Ukraine even more determined to be its own country and integrate with Europe.
What moved Putin to go to war to begin with? Those variables have not been diminished during this "special operation", quite the opposite.
So what choice is left for Putin to defend against evil NATO?
Nuclear. Same as if we had boots in Ukraine.
Either way, peace keeping forces of NATO or not, its gonna come to the same conclusion.
Unless we're dragging it out in hopes that someone at home kills the king long live the king? Maybe thats the fine print?
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As it stands right now Putin can, and will, win this war. Russia tried to win this war in a fast push but that failed, they are now digging in for a siege.
UKr is fighting a defensive war, they have basically no way to strike back at Russia. Once Russia moves this to a bombing campaign they can just keep pounding them for years or even decades.
Ukraine can only win such a war by breaking the will of the Russian people to fight. And with the State controlled media, and the willingness to ruthlessly stamp down protest, that will not happen quickly.
 
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HomerJS

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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Too fucking late orange boy and the rest of your Republican and right wing media Putin cheerleaders. Now all those assholes are going to pretend they weren't praising Putin. Why does the public continuously fall for their horseshit time after time???
Trump admits he was wrong about Putin — but just can't quit him (msn.com)
"I'm surprised — I'm surprised. I thought he was negotiating when he sent his troops to the border. I thought he was negotiating. I thought it was a tough way to negotiate but a smart way to negotiate. I figured he was going to make a good deal like everybody else does with the United States and the other people they tend to deal with — you know, like every trade deal. We've never made a good trade deal until I came along. And then he went in — and I think he's changed. I think he's changed. It's a very sad thing for the world. He's very much changed."
Click to expand...
 
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HomerJS

HomerJS

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Feb 6, 2002
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rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
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vi edit said:
My wife and I were talking about the post-conflict Ukraine assuming victory and just the mess that country will have to deal with.

Like right now we are fixated on just a binary win/loss getting Russia out. But the long term clean up Ukraine will face. Those 3 million people that left, how many have homes let alone a village to come back to. All of the dud mortars/missiles/mines/military garbage left. Bodies. Destroyed infrastructure. Just the entirety of chaos and destruction we can't really fathom. And then you have the civil concern of what to do with Russian apologists still in your borders.

Even victory is going to be bittersweet for that poor country to pick up the shambles it's left with.
Click to expand...

300 Billion in Russian foreign reserves that aren't in Russia would be a good start.
 
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D

Dave_5k

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May 23, 2017
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cytg111 said:
Please please please let this happen…
Or maybe drag it out another week and get a better deal? I would think Ukraine wants some assurance and reparations?
Click to expand...
Humanitarian disaster that is ongoing, I wouldn't wish to continue 1 more minute, much less another week. But yes, Ukraine wants more solid assurance that Russia won't just regroup and then resume missile bombardment. I don't think reparations are realistically on the table, as much as I'd want it.
 
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Dave_5k

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May 23, 2017
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Here's the Ukrainian's downside, risk of hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties, which could also spread to more cities by Russian terror bombings and starving out the cities. Hadn't realized AP still had presence there to cover the currently ongoing horror:
apnews.com

'Why? Why? Why?' Ukraine's Mariupol descends into despair

In the more than two weeks since Russia’s war began, two AP journalists have been the only international media present in Mariupol, chronicling its fall into chaos and despair.
apnews.com apnews.com
 
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