Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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DrewSG3

Senior member
Feb 7, 2005
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How do the Mig jets Poland is transferring compare to the F16 jets they will get back filled?
 
D

DrewSG3

Senior member
Feb 7, 2005
353
34
91
Luna1968 said:
this is what worries me. NATO and the west better use caution. the world is seeing the russian army is not modern and stands no chance against a modern military who have been in a active war for over a decade. if Putin gets pushed into a corner he is unstable enough to go nuclear. that thought is terrifying.
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I believe cooler heads will off Putin before he even has a chance to send off a nuke
 
F

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
79,228
38,851
136
adamsleath said:
I expect Russian forces to close the vice on sieged cities.
It will get worse. Possibly.

But reading your post struck a chord with me.

While Putin remains they/ we are stuck playing this stupid destructive game.

I believe Putin is all in , to use a poker analogy.
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This is my concern as well as Putin may see this as a situation where if he admits defeat he will be deposed and potentially killed. If he does see it that way the calculus for a lot of things changes for him.

That being said, I don't think other people in Russia see it this way and if Putin really tries to go off the deep end I think they will remove him.
 
Pens1566

Pens1566

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2005
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sandorski said:
Similar capabilities.
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IF maintained, depending on the version. MiG is supposed to be more maneuverable at lower speeds.

Just a guess, but Poland will probably come off better for this in the long run. More consistency, more aligned with rest of NATO.
 
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Zorba

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
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pauldun170 said:
The Polish Mig-29 fleet is a hodgepadge of hand-me downs from other countries (Old Czeck and East German).
Generally, these were obsolete lawn darts from the factory. The original batch of export Mig-29's suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked.
Fine for training exercises. Great for airshows.
Great for getting shot down by other fighters.

The ones from the Czechs were serviceable and received a bunch of equipment to work with NATA\Western environments. The German Migs were...."rustic?"
They got some work done and the Israelis installed Netflix in them but from what I recall, Poland was planning to retire the entire fleet in 2025.

In Polish service, they have also been pretty good at being grounded or waiting for a bit of spit and polish. To toss some of the rattier Migs Ukraines way out of Polands already squeezed Mig29 fleet might put Poland in a bad spot. I wouldn't be surprised if availability in Polish service is in the 20% to 30% area.
If their entire fleet is 23 Migs (couple of witch are trainers) and only 7 are flyable....are they just going to write off the entire fleet 3 years early and give them to Ukraine?
Even if we floated them a bunch of F-16s, that's 2 squadrons of Polish pilots and maintenance crews that will be out of commission to transition over from Mig's to F-16's.

Poland would have to take comfort that being a NATO member means that when shit hits the fan the size of your Air Force is the equivalent of all of NATO.
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Hopefully we are giving them F-16s that were headed to the boneyard this year anyways.
 
Zorba

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
12,936
8,116
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Pens1566 said:
While true, those are all (stingers to Afghan militia, etc.) of a much smaller degree than a fleet of modern-ish fighters during the middle of open conflict that apparently will be flown out of a major US base (Ramstein) in theater. That logistical issue alone is ripe for misinterpretation. Especially given the ... lack of sophistication that RU has shown so far. Very easy for them to say "we observed a hostile flight originating from a NATO base on radar" and go from there. Entirely different than random, hard to trace, shipping origins for a case of stingers/javelins/etc..
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Didn't USSR provide aircraft to NK and Vietnam?
 
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Luna1968

Golden Member
Mar 9, 2019
1,176
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woolfe9998 said:
Premium unleaded just topped $6 per gallon here in the Bay Area. No joke. This is bad for my wife's car. Thank heavens I have a Prius. Next car will be an EV.

This is why gas prices skyrocketing is a good thing, even if it's bad for Biden politically. Because lots of other people are thinking the same thing I'm thinking about their next auto purchase.
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there will be a shit ton of trucks for sale very soon.
 
Zorba

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
12,936
8,116
136
Pens1566 said:
IF maintained, depending on the version. MiG is supposed to be more maneuverable at lower speeds.

Just a guess, but Poland will probably come off better for this in the long run. More consistency, more aligned with rest of NATO.
Click to expand...
I'm guessing parts are easier to come by for F-16s too.
 
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fleshconsumed

fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
6,407
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DrewSG3 said:
I believe cooler heads will off Putin before he even has a chance to send off a nuke
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I've been thinking about it lately. Yes, sure, one would hope so. However, Putin is an autocrat/dictator and they tend to appoint people based on blind loyalty over expertise. Putin has been in power for practically two decades now. It is entirely possible he purged anyone who would be sane enough to stop him. So again, I'd hope in an event like this cooler heads would prevail, but I'm not sure I'd bet on it.
 
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