Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
44,691
30,032
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Well, f*ck it. The number of Ukrainian soldiers lives that can be saved with such weapons, in advance of an attack, make them worth their weight in gold. How much longer will we coddle Putin because he waves the nuclear flag from time to time.

Congress should force his hand in the supplemental. They'll have to be ordered from Lockheed in this case but Ukraine would get them eventually, potentially sooner if other FMS countries let them cut the line.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
32,947
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Great, we're stuck with a dawdling dotard or pure treason for our Presidential choices.
It really shows the position of the United States when UK and France are the first to step up with actual missiles to help Ukraine strike the invading Russian forces INSIDE Ukraine.
After the proven efficacy, legitimate NEED, and zero backlash from Russia.... the Biden administration STILL comes to the conclusion to sit back and do nothing?

"We're not trickling in supplies / weapons"
The hell you aren't!
 
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you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
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You beat me to it, I was going to say it’s because Russia and China regularly suppress intellectuals. Of course, getting out of China now is like trying to get out of Russia when Stalin was in power. Poo bear is destroying China right now, he is a bit more subtle and polished version of Stalin. Both are abominations to human dignity and a plague on human life.
Yea but now the USA is starting to suppress intellectual at least in the 'red' states. I mean for real look at some of Florida new laws around education and what they are doing to the state controlled schools.
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
5,571
829
126
Great, we're stuck with a dawdling dotard or pure treason for our Presidential choices.
It really shows the position of the United States when UK and France are the first to step up with actual missiles to help Ukraine strike the invading Russian forces INSIDE Ukraine.
After the proven efficacy, legitimate NEED, and zero backlash from Russia.... the Biden administration STILL comes to the conclusion to sit back and do nothing?

"We're not trickling in supplies / weapons"
The hell you aren't!
i'm not sure biden is a dotard yet; i mean despite his vocal grafs (something he has done his entire life); he actually manage to accomplish a bit so far.... certainly more than the republicans would like to give him credit despite fighting and attacking him every step of the way.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
26,097
32,889
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That's just Jaskalas' cyclic outrage kicking in again, where he needs to see things in black and white because he's mad. The tempo has slowed but he's still doing it. Previous silliness aside, when anyone tells you Joe Biden has "sat back and done nothing," you're immediately excused from having to take that person seriously. The facts are NATO is stronger than ever thanks to not just Putin, but Biden. He might be the single most consequential non Ukrainian involved in keeping that country in existance, and Russia on it's ass. We all think more can be done, but give the guy some credit!


I get being mad though. This ones makes me want to clusterfuck some orcs myself. Did his duty and probably went through absolute hell, got back to his family.

3grsAkZ.jpeg
 
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Nov 17, 2019
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At least a portion of the bridge is in Ukraine isn't it? Can't Ukraine call for air strikes on their own territory?

Yeah, yeah, I know ....
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
14,817
7,433
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Yea but now the USA is starting to suppress intellectual at least in the 'red' states. I mean for real look at some of Florida new laws around education and what they are doing to the state controlled schools.
Well, not the USA, but some elements within the US - but not the same as in the countries mentioned. There are literally purges that have occurred in those countries as well as suppression of the publication of research, particularly those that make the 'state' look bad. There's a long tradition of 'anti-science' types in the US, IDK why. The other thing is that there are way more people that really aren't 'book' smart. They are good at their jobs and such, but have no intellectual curiosity and don't engage much in the way of self education aside from hobbies. These are the ingredients in the sausage that is the US. I'll take that any day over Russia, China and a more than hundred other countries around the world.
 
Nov 17, 2019
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^^^ I see conflicting reports.

Thoughts? Is there a loophole?


"Zelenskyy calls for Russia to lose its UN veto power

Ukraine's President Zelenskyy on Wednesday called for Russia to lose its veto power within the U.N. Security Council.

In an address in New York, Zelenskyy said the move was a necessary step in bringing an end to the fighting in his country.

"It is impossible to stop the war because all efforts are vetoed by the aggressor," he said, adding that reforms of the council were long overdue.

"I know that the U.N. is capable of more. I'm confident that the U.N. Charter can actually work for the sake of peace and security globally. However, for this to happen, the years-long discussions and projects on U.N. reform must be translated into a viable process of UN reform," he said."


 

RnR_au

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2021
1,462
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Thoughts? Is there a loophole?


"Zelenskyy calls for Russia to lose its UN veto power

Ukraine's President Zelenskyy on Wednesday called for Russia to lose its veto power within the U.N. Security Council.

In an address in New York, Zelenskyy said the move was a necessary step in bringing an end to the fighting in his country.

"It is impossible to stop the war because all efforts are vetoed by the aggressor," he said, adding that reforms of the council were long overdue.

"I know that the U.N. is capable of more. I'm confident that the U.N. Charter can actually work for the sake of peace and security globally. However, for this to happen, the years-long discussions and projects on U.N. reform must be translated into a viable process of UN reform," he said."


China would veto it. It would set a precedence if such a move succeeded.
 

you2

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2002
5,571
829
126
^^^ I see conflicting reports.

Thoughts? Is there a loophole?


"Zelenskyy calls for Russia to lose its UN veto power

Ukraine's President Zelenskyy on Wednesday called for Russia to lose its veto power within the U.N. Security Council.

In an address in New York, Zelenskyy said the move was a necessary step in bringing an end to the fighting in his country.

"It is impossible to stop the war because all efforts are vetoed by the aggressor," he said, adding that reforms of the council were long overdue.

"I know that the U.N. is capable of more. I'm confident that the U.N. Charter can actually work for the sake of peace and security globally. However, for this to happen, the years-long discussions and projects on U.N. reform must be translated into a viable process of UN reform," he said."


The problem is the UN charter was written in a different time and to get countries to sign was written in a way that there is no provision to revoke a countries veto power; I mean like how would the US respond if they were to be stripped of veto power. Worse the UN hasn't had teeth in years and worse how do you deal with a country that has nuke - after all we haven't nuked north korea yet have we (even though we should have ;) )
 
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RnR_au

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2021
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Kirby is now saying a decision hasn’t been made on ATACMS yet.

View attachment 86031

Well... maybe these hot/cold announcements are telegraph signals to the wider Russian establishment that if you think you have it bad now, imagine if Ukraine had a good supply of ATACMS.

So maybe its not escalation worries. Maybe its a a slow boil of the Russian frog. I mean how to you effect regime change in Russia without an invasion? Maybe one way is to allow Russia to keep doubling down on their Ukrainian efforts. Allow them to dig themselves deeper and deeper until something breaks and there is an internal change.

Unfortunately this also means lost Ukrainian lives. And Russian lives. This sucks, but the current establishment in Russia have shown again and again that they can't be trusted. Its a failed state. A festering sore on the border of Europe who has been willing to kill outside its borders, interfere with elections and enable corruption and chaos where ever they see an opportunity. Just look at what they are doing in Africa.

I don't know if the 'slow boil' is true. I'm sure the conversations have been done in exploring hypothetical scenarios and working the terrible calculus.

In the end Russia is not just a Ukrainian problem. They are a global problem.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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How about we kick United States, Russia, China, France and Britain out?
No veto power from any country.
This is the most assnine part of the UN.
You guys do not understand the point of the UN.

If you got rid of this veto power it would change nothing. Absolutely nothing. The question to ask about the UN is not if it solves these problems, because it doesn’t, the question is if it solves any problem at all, and I think it does.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
67,983
25,033
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John Bolton explained the US attitude towards the UN quite well:

"The United States makes the UN work when it wants it to work, and that is exactly the way it should be, because the only question, the only question for the United States is what is in our national interest."

Every administration has held the same position wrt the UN but some were more polite about it.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Politics is a strong and slow boring of hard boards, and that’s best represented at the UN.

One of my best friends is part of the mine action service and you would think we could all get together that land mines are bad but even then it’s hard - for example Russia is using tons of land mines in Ukraine but Ukraine uses them too.
 

RnR_au

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2021
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A couple of advances in the south. Inch by inch everything is a cinch!

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Source

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Source

I am wondering this Kherson area will ever be the staging post for a big push, or if its just another pressure point on the Russian defensive line. Or possibly both pending ork numbers.