Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,067
8,083
136
As if we needed any more evidence, but there is a new report covering a more extensive breadth of the evil horror that is Russia.

New report highlights evidence of escalating Russian genocide in Ukraine

To begin, we reviewed Russian state actors’ direct and public incitement to genocide since they were formally put on notice regarding these breaches of the Genocide Convention in May 2022. Organizing verifiable examples through an expert framework on the five “D’s” of incitement (demonization, delegitimization, dehumanization, denial, and disinformation), we found durable genocidal incitement across all levels of Russian state authority.
Over the past year, direct and public incitement to genocide by Russian state actors neither decreased in tone or in volume. In fact, we demonstrate that this specific breach of the Genocide Convention escalated. New dehumanizing tropes, such as “de-Satanizing” Ukrainians, have even been introduced through powerful, state-endorsed platforms. In legal language, there are reasonable grounds to believe that Russia is responsible for direct and public incitement to genocide against Ukrainians.
This inciting language is horrifying on its own, as it calls for the erasure and destruction of Ukrainians through graphic slurs and threats. However, Russia’s actions in Ukraine have mirrored the violence of the rhetoric coming out of Moscow.
 
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Young Grasshopper

Senior member
Nov 9, 2007
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Sounds like Ukraine is coming down hard on corruption. I fucking love it. That is EU material right there.
Ya, I’m sure they’re going to be hating life living in Spain while driving their Bentleys.

I guess thats what the AT community sees as ‘coming down hard’.

You can’t make this stuff up.
 

Young Grasshopper

Senior member
Nov 9, 2007
957
328
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The Euros have needlessly overcomplicated this. The pilots aren't going to need 4 months of training to lean the terms of the jets. Like maybe a couple days. Insisting on training the crews at the same time is dumb. Hire contractors to maintain them until Ukrainian ground crews are brought up to speed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/11/f-16-fighters-ukraine-training-delays/


I’ll let you in on a little secret. This has nothing to do with a language barrier or training issues, and everything to do with Northrop Grumman not wanting to see a plane they sell to 20 other countries being blown out of the sky by Russian air defenses.


Here is an example: Let’s say your the Netherlands are are in the market to buy some tanks. The Leopard 2 tank is an option. These tanks cost about 5 million a piece. When they’re out on the Ukrainian battlefield, they’re getting blown to pieces by cheap 10k drones, so much so that Ukraine is now pulling these tanks out of the battlefield.

I don’t know who makes the Leopard 2 tanks, but you could see how this would be a big problem for the manufacturer whose business model is to sell these tanks to other countries.

And now you know the reason why Germany was so hesitant to send these tanks in first place.
 
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Jan 25, 2011
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I’ll let you in on a little secret. This has nothing to do with a language barrier or training issues, and everything to do with Northrop Grumman not wanting to see a plane they sell to 20 other countries being blown out of the sky by Russian air defenses.
Lockheed will be surprised to learn of Northrop selling their equipment. But you should really look in to what Lockheed has said about it’s plane being used by Ukraine.


yeah they sure seem worried about them being used…..

impressively wrong on all accounts. Might want to let the CEO in on your little secret.
 

Racan

Golden Member
Sep 22, 2012
1,151
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Lockheed will be surprised to learn of Northrop selling their equipment. But you should really look in to what Lockheed has said about it’s plane being used by Ukraine.


yeah they sure seem worried about them being used…..

impressively wrong on all accounts. Might want to let the CEO in on your little secret.
Also regarding his BS about the Leopards, these were just announced last month:


 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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I’ll let you in on a little secret. This has nothing to do with a language barrier or training issues, and everything to do with Northrop Grumman not wanting to see a plane they sell to 20 other countries being blown out of the sky by Russian air defenses.


Here is an example: Let’s say your the Netherlands are are in the market to buy some tanks. The Leopard 2 tank is an option. These tanks cost about 5 million a piece. When they’re out on the Ukrainian battlefield, they’re getting blown to pieces by cheap 10k drones, so much so that Ukraine is now pulling these tanks out of the battlefield.

I don’t know who makes the Leopard 2 tanks, but you could see how this would be a big problem for the manufacturer whose business model is to sell these tanks to other countries.

And now you know the reason why Germany was so hesitant to send these tanks in first place.
Look at the weapons expert who doesn’t even know who makes the weapons he’s talking about.

You are right about one thing though - after the performance in this war Russia is going to have trouble giving their kit away. What a joke the ‘second best army’ turned out to be, right?
 
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Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,684
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Look at the weapons expert who doesn’t even know who makes the weapons he’s talking about.

You are right about one thing though - after the performance in this war Russia is going to have trouble giving their kit away. What a joke the ‘second best army’ turned out to be, right?
Second best? Hell, they’re third best in Ukraine…Ukraine, Wagner, then Russia.

Wait…there’s a kickball team at a Kviv elementary school, so that’d make the Russian “army” fourth best, right?
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
24,027
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You can’t make this stuff up.
That's true, you suck at making shit up, that's why everyone here see right through you.

Anyway, even China realizes where this is going for Russia, why do you think they've spend the last couple months distancing itself from Russia and easing relations?

Russia is a failed state, at this point it's a matter of navigating the fallout. That's the discussions taking place right now. Wonder how much Russian dirt it will take to make Xi go meh on Taiwan.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
24,027
13,538
136
The Euros have needlessly overcomplicated this. The pilots aren't going to need 4 months of training to lean the terms of the jets. Like maybe a couple days. Insisting on training the crews at the same time is dumb. Hire contractors to maintain them until Ukrainian ground crews are brought up to speed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/11/f-16-fighters-ukraine-training-delays/
100%. I am sure it's not from a covert effort to harm the effort, it's just exposed stupid bureaucracy, it's good to get it aired out so it can be replaced with something more agile. I have faith this will be sped up.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
24,027
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As if we needed any more evidence, but there is a new report covering a more extensive breadth of the evil horror that is Russia.

New report highlights evidence of escalating Russian genocide in Ukraine

To begin, we reviewed Russian state actors’ direct and public incitement to genocide since they were formally put on notice regarding these breaches of the Genocide Convention in May 2022. Organizing verifiable examples through an expert framework on the five “D’s” of incitement (demonization, delegitimization, dehumanization, denial, and disinformation), we found durable genocidal incitement across all levels of Russian state authority.
Over the past year, direct and public incitement to genocide by Russian state actors neither decreased in tone or in volume. In fact, we demonstrate that this specific breach of the Genocide Convention escalated. New dehumanizing tropes, such as “de-Satanizing” Ukrainians, have even been introduced through powerful, state-endorsed platforms. In legal language, there are reasonable grounds to believe that Russia is responsible for direct and public incitement to genocide against Ukrainians.
This inciting language is horrifying on its own, as it calls for the erasure and destruction of Ukrainians through graphic slurs and threats. However, Russia’s actions in Ukraine have mirrored the violence of the rhetoric coming out of Moscow.

Third Reich 2.0, there is no other way to put it. It has to be snuffed out.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,246
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I’ll let you in on a little secret. This has nothing to do with a language barrier or training issues, and everything to do with Northrop Grumman not wanting to see a plane they sell to 20 other countries being blown out of the sky by Russian air defenses.


Here is an example: Let’s say your the Netherlands are are in the market to buy some tanks. The Leopard 2 tank is an option. These tanks cost about 5 million a piece. When they’re out on the Ukrainian battlefield, they’re getting blown to pieces by cheap 10k drones, so much so that Ukraine is now pulling these tanks out of the battlefield.

I don’t know who makes the Leopard 2 tanks, but you could see how this would be a big problem for the manufacturer whose business model is to sell these tanks to other countries.

And now you know the reason why Germany was so hesitant to send these tanks in first place.

Basically everything here is wrong. Which is kinda impressive I guess.

Anyway mines are the major problem for armored vehicle assaults in the south. Maybe ATGMs and artillery after that but the later of those is catching GMLRS in the teeth the minute they open up. You know why Rheinmetall is going to sell a lot more armor? Because theirs doesn't send its turret and crew to low orbit after a scratch and the users can hit stuff with it.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,795
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for extra entertainment this morning:

Russia had some meddling in Niger, destabilizing the country by supporting bandits and such. It then supported a coup against the democratically lead government by General Salifou Mody, promising support and helping to crack down on same said bandits with the Wagner group with extreme violence, Wagner style!

Keep in mind both the US and France had bases in Niger that were fighting said bandits, and both stood down the moment the coup happened.


Wagner entered Niger to support General Mody and put down the bandits, and well, this happened:

Yep, the "bandits" ended up being al-Qaeda terrorists, have surrounded the Wagner convoy, which is now just stuck in the middle of the desert and apparently not moving. Nether side appears to be engaging each other, but it is not like the local al-Qaeda terrorists need to engage the Wagnerites if you think about it ... water only lasts so long for them.


If a person reads between the lines, it is likely Al Qaeda does not want to directly attack Wagner here, as they were likely receiving support quite recently from Wagner. But on the flip side, they also know what Wagner is all about and do not want them in Niger. They just want them to go home.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,246
37,658
136
100%. I am sure it's not from a covert effort to harm the effort, it's just exposed stupid bureaucracy, it's good to get it aired out so it can be replaced with something more agile. I have faith this will be sped up.

US will probably end up doing most of it.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,165
30,117
146
for extra entertainment this morning:

Russia had some meddling in Niger, destabilizing the country by supporting bandits and such. It then supported a coup against the democratically lead government by General Salifou Mody, promising support and helping to crack down on same said bandits with the Wagner group with extreme violence, Wagner style!

Keep in mind both the US and France had bases in Niger that were fighting said bandits, and both stood down the moment the coup happened.


Wagner entered Niger to support General Mody and put down the bandits, and well, this happened:

Yep, the "bandits" ended up being al-Qaeda terrorists, have surrounded the Wagner convoy, which is now just stuck in the middle of the desert and apparently not moving. Nether side appears to be engaging each other, but it is not like the local al-Qaeda terrorists need to engage the Wagnerites if you think about it ... water only lasts so long for them.


If a person reads between the lines, it is likely Al Qaeda does not want to directly attack Wagner here, as they were likely receiving support quite recently from Wagner. But on the flip side, they also know what Wagner is all about and do not want them in Niger. They just want them to go home.

interesting. Was listening to updates on the coup yesterday, including the coup actors running around with Russian flags and demanding Niger's accession to Russian influence (Wagner), but at the time there was no report on Al Qaeda stepping in.

I hope Wagner dies in the desert, that would be something.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,710
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Basically everything here is wrong. Which is kinda impressive I guess.

Anyway mines are the major problem for armored vehicle assaults in the south. Maybe ATGMs and artillery after that but the later of those is catching GMLRS in the teeth the minute they open up. You know why Rheinmetall is going to sell a lot more armor? Because theirs doesn't send its turret and crew to low orbit after a scratch and the users can hit stuff with it.
Seriously, what country is going to want to buy Russian junk after seeing the results here? They murdered their defense export industry by revealing that their equipment sucks.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
28,831
40,425
136
for extra entertainment this morning:

Russia had some meddling in Niger, destabilizing the country by supporting bandits and such. It then supported a coup against the democratically lead government by General Salifou Mody, promising support and helping to crack down on same said bandits with the Wagner group with extreme violence, Wagner style!

Keep in mind both the US and France had bases in Niger that were fighting said bandits, and both stood down the moment the coup happened.


Wagner entered Niger to support General Mody and put down the bandits, and well, this happened:

Yep, the "bandits" ended up being al-Qaeda terrorists, have surrounded the Wagner convoy, which is now just stuck in the middle of the desert and apparently not moving. Nether side appears to be engaging each other, but it is not like the local al-Qaeda terrorists need to engage the Wagnerites if you think about it ... water only lasts so long for them.


If a person reads between the lines, it is likely Al Qaeda does not want to directly attack Wagner here, as they were likely receiving support quite recently from Wagner. But on the flip side, they also know what Wagner is all about and do not want them in Niger. They just want them to go home.

Sounds like Africans are getting tired of armed Russian psychos fond of the occasional gang rape party. It's not the more absolute denial of their services I was hoping for, but it's a start.

Seriously, these guys are the scum of the earth, essentially a war crime outfit to fund the Russian government. I don't care who gets to shoot'em up and run them out, just let it happen. Africa will never stabilize with Wagner there running amok. They are only there to create suffering and misery while extracting wealth and resources.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,246
37,658
136
Seriously, what country is going to want to buy Russian junk after seeing the results here? They murdered their defense export industry by revealing that their equipment sucks.

I think there will be a market in the most price sensitive countries still but yeah it's going to be tough for them to land big fish. The Turks and South Koreans are going to make major inroads with a certain class of customer that once bought Russian equipment.
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
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Rave at the Kerch bridge again today.

Supposedly Ukraine fired modified S-200 missiles at it.


Looks like they hit something. I always forget how huge those S-200s are. I guess they're modified into doing a final phase dive mode, a near 90 deg attack angle like Taurus/SCALP can do. If even just one got through, that's one of those old school big warheads going off. Fingers crossed it was a productive hit. No penetrator I'm guessing, but ~400lbs of high explosive going off is quite a slap.
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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Looks like they hit something. I always forget how huge those S-200s are. I guess they're modified into doing a final phase dive mode, a near vertical attack angle like with Taurus/SCALP. If even just one got through, that's one of those old school big warheads going off. Fingers crossed it was a productive hit.

Black smoke would seem to indicate something blew up but we'll have to wait for the Russians to provide a BDA.

The Ukrainians aren't going to stop until this thing is rubble lying on the bottom of the strait which will happen sooner or later.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
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Ya, I’m sure they’re going to be hating life living in Spain while driving their Bentleys.

I guess thats what the AT community sees as ‘coming down hard’.

You can’t make this stuff up.
Russian conscript training, fire one mag into the air, on to the front 14 days later