Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,006
47,965
136
That is the key point from the Russian viewpoint.

Historical education is lacking here. NATO promised to Russia (Soviet Union back then) about not expanding in the early 90s but then totally did the opposite. It kept expanding more and more. This has always made Russia angry. Them not trusting NATO after that is understandable.
This is a lack of education on your part. You just don’t understand how the world works.

Russia has had NATO on its borders for decades. They might not like it but they don’t care that much. This is about Russia attempting to return a former vassal state to the fold.

I do wish people were better educated though, yes. Russia lies about everything but so many people believe them.
 

Roger Wilco

Diamond Member
Mar 20, 2017
3,871
5,720
136
“My son told me he couldn’t say anything, everything was bugged and they were taking people’s phones away. As for himself, he said ‘everything’s fine,’ but what does ‘fine’ mean when you’re not allowed to say anything? And how can everything be fine in a war? I’ve been crying, not eating, just sitting there numbly and watching TV. I don’t understand how the conscripts could be sent to war,” said Maria. “I can’t wait anymore, I feel terrible. We have group chats just for the mothers of boys who are serving. And last week, one mother wrote, ‘Why are they sending conscripts?’ The next day, her son got punished by his commanding officer. How? Did they go into our chat and read it? Everything’s hush-hush, you can’t say anything.”

 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,006
47,965
136
The ones who know, know. It's not about Russia or any other country. The truth is universal and will help all of humanity. Showing humanity the truth is very important. But yes, we are flawed human beings but we should try to do what we can. The world is a crazy place right now so nationalistic mentality needs to be removed.
If you believe this I’m so sorry. The bad actors are playing you for a fool and they are laughing at how gullible you are.
 

DisarmedDespot

Senior member
Jun 2, 2016
587
588
136
“My son told me he couldn’t say anything, everything was bugged and they were taking people’s phones away. As for himself, he said ‘everything’s fine,’ but what does ‘fine’ mean when you’re not allowed to say anything? And how can everything be fine in a war? I’ve been crying, not eating, just sitting there numbly and watching TV. I don’t understand how the conscripts could be sent to war,” said Maria. “I can’t wait anymore, I feel terrible. We have group chats just for the mothers of boys who are serving. And last week, one mother wrote, ‘Why are they sending conscripts?’ The next day, her son got punished by his commanding officer. How? Did they go into our chat and read it? Everything’s hush-hush, you can’t say anything.”

Groups for mothers of soldiers are popular and fairly influential in Russia. Sadly, the Russian government has a long history of not giving a shit about them.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,837
541
126
You make zero sense. So, the country that put their desire to join NATO in their constitution is a buffer country? Who voted you or Puty World King? Ukraine decides if they are a buffer country. It’s clear to everyone else that they decided not to be a buffer and have picked a side. Puty is upset over that.

You seem to be upset that the true three dimensional chess player is Biden. He left nothing under the covers. Humpty Trumpy would have been wrecking NATO and letting Puty have Ukraine since we wanted the Humpty Trumpy Moscow hotel. It’s always about what’s best for Puty and Humpty Trumpty. Just admit it, you and all the others were wrong, what Biden did was the right and best move.

It’s time to crawl back under your rock.
Ukraine did not desire to join NATO until the puppet regime was put in under some strange events. Yanokovych was overthrown and an American puppet was put in. What the hell result will occur? A supposed wish to join NATO, obviously. Russia is not stupid. They saw Yanokovych (who was somehwat neutral between supporting the West and Russia) was displaced under very strange circumstances. They knew this was an under handed move by America, a sort of sneak attack to weaken Russia. Couple this with the millions of dollars being transferred into Ukraine by National Endowment for Democracy, a Western group supposedly spreading "democracy," you have the perfect recipe for an anti-Russia client state that Ukraine became. A direct threat to Russia from a Russian perspective. Listen, I don't support Putin or Russia. I just like facts.
 
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sao123

Lifer
May 27, 2002
12,648
201
106
That is the key point from the Russian viewpoint.

Historical education is lacking here. NATO promised to Russia (Soviet Union back then) about not expanding in the early 90s but then totally did the opposite. It kept expanding more and more. This has always made Russia angry. Them not trusting NATO after that is understandable.

The modern Putin Russian viewpoint is littered with historical inaccuracies and delusions of things past which never were stated. Must be drinking CNN kool-aid.


Michael Gorbachev, October 2014, Kommersant Newspaper - "The topic of 'NATO expansion' was never discussed; it was not raised in those years. I am saying this with a full sense of responsibility. Not a single Eastern European country brought up the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact had ceased to exist in 1991."

Boris Yeltsin - 1993 Letter to Bill Clinton - "We understand, of course, that any possible integration of East European countries into NATO will not automatically lead to the alliance somehow turning against Russia"

Nato-Russia Founding Act- "NATO and Russia do not consider each other as adversaries."

Wolfgang Ischinger - The 2+4 Treaty which reunited German into a single country, made no mention of NATO enlargement for or against.

the promise to not expand Nato is in short... Putin's imaginary dreams.
 
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Grey_Beard

Golden Member
Sep 23, 2014
1,825
2,007
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Ukraine did not desire to join NATO until the puppet regime was put in under some strange events. Yanokovych was overthrown and an American puppet was put in. What the hell result will occur? A supposed wish to join NATO, obviously. Russia is not stupid. They saw their former ally Yanokovych was displaced under very strange circumstances. They knew this was an under handed move by America, a sort of sneak attack to weaken Russia.

Your use of assumptions here is extreme. Interesting perspective that the Puty Puppet was not a puppet but the democratically elected one after the people revolted and got him out is the puppet. The cognitive dissonance is outstanding. The funny part is you say it with such conviction.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,837
541
126
It was not a written agreement, more of a trust thing. A sort of, you do that for us and we will continue to do this. By the way, you mean Clinton and Yeltsin. These men discussed Putin and Clinton was very impressed by Putin. Yeltsin made sure he "won" the election too.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,026
4,340
136
It was not a written agreement, more of a trust thing. A sort of, you do that for us and we will continue to do this. By the way, you mean Clinton and Yeltsin. These men discussed Putin and Clinton was very impressed by Putin. Yeltsin made sure he "won" the election too.
So only your orange monkey leader is allowed to ignore formally signed agreements from prior POTUS
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,438
7,503
136
GREAT, now that lunatic Putin is threatening military action against Sweden and Finland. this POS is out to destroy the world.

They should goad him into speaking about that more. Sooner or later his friends are going to give him an early retirement.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,274
36,388
136
I thought stingers were anti-air and javelins were for tanks? My understanding was that javelins hit tanks from above but were fired from the ground.

No that's correct. Javelins actually have two modes of attack. One is the top attack it's known for, going after the thinner armor, while the other is a normal line of sight, straight at'em attack mode, for bunkers, buildings, things other than tanks really. The great thing about Javelin though is it's fire and forget, meaning the split second that round is airborne you can gtfo pronto. No waiting around illuminating something or paying out a wire.

We also gave them Polish MANPADS, but I believe modern Stingers are a bit faster, with slightly better range and a slightly larger warhead. Both seem to be working pretty good.

I'm less enthusiastic about the Molotov idea honestly. If you get one inside a tank, then yes that's a problem. But this isn't the 40s, tanks aren't that susceptible to fire anymore. A better use of time and resources, not to mention easier and safer to deploy, would be creating basic explosives for grenades and remotely detonated IEDs. If you're using buildings for cover in urban warfare, it's easier to fight from them if they're not on fire.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,006
47,965
136
Ukraine did not desire to join NATO until the puppet regime was put in under some strange events. Yanokovych was overthrown and an American puppet was put in. What the hell result will occur? A supposed wish to join NATO, obviously. Russia is not stupid. They saw Yanokovych (who was somehwat neutral between supporting the West and Russia) was displaced under very strange circumstances. They knew this was an under handed move by America, a sort of sneak attack to weaken Russia. Couple this with the millions of dollars being transferred into Ukraine by National Endowment for Democracy, a Western group supposedly spreading "democracy," you have the perfect recipe for an anti-Russia client state that Ukraine became. A direct threat to Russia from a Russian perspective. Listen, I don't support Putin or Russia. I just like facts.
If you aren’t a Russian troll you are a useful idiot.

Assuming you aren’t a troll you have a lot of learning to do. Russia didn’t give a shit about NATO - they wanted their vassal state to return. Don’t you read anything?
 

nutxo

Diamond Member
May 20, 2001
6,751
424
126
Probably Chinese national doing Pooh Bear’s bidding.

Fuck off. I'm of Mexican descent. Don't even start your stupid shit. I am so tired of this fucking section of the forum. You cant even debate. You just attack.

Now watch....
 
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Luna1968

Golden Member
Mar 9, 2019
1,200
677
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“My son told me he couldn’t say anything, everything was bugged and they were taking people’s phones away. As for himself, he said ‘everything’s fine,’ but what does ‘fine’ mean when you’re not allowed to say anything? And how can everything be fine in a war? I’ve been crying, not eating, just sitting there numbly and watching TV. I don’t understand how the conscripts could be sent to war,” said Maria. “I can’t wait anymore, I feel terrible. We have group chats just for the mothers of boys who are serving. And last week, one mother wrote, ‘Why are they sending conscripts?’ The next day, her son got punished by his commanding officer. How? Did they go into our chat and read it? Everything’s hush-hush, you can’t say anything.”


truly sad. lots people who dont want to fight are being forced to by a lunatic named putin. russian leaders just love throwing low troops into the grinder.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,100
12,202
146
No that's correct. Javelins actually have two modes of attack. One is the top attack it's known for, going after the thinner armor, while the other is a normal line of sight, straight at'em attack mode, for bunkers, buildings, things other than tanks really. The great thing about Javelin though is it's fire and forget, meaning the split second that round is airborne you can gtfo pronto. No waiting around illuminating something or paying out a wire.

We also gave them Polish MANPADS, but I believe modern Stingers are a bit faster, with slightly better range and a slightly larger warhead. Both seem to be working pretty good.

I'm less enthusiastic about the Molotov idea honestly. If you get one inside a tank, then yes that's a problem. But this isn't the 40s, tank aren't that susceptible to fire anymore. A better use of time and resources, not to mention easier and safer to deploy, would be creating basic explosives for grenades and remotely detonated IEDs. If you're using buildings for cover in urban warfare, it's easier to fight from them if they're not on fire.
I dunno, the idea of some flaming alcohol + petroleum jelly being launched from from 15 different directions onto something barricaded by concrete gets my motor running.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,583
29,206
146
Do you need a chemistry Degree to make a Molotov Cocktail?

nope. but considering that the labs are a ready supply center for the booze, the materials from glass to cloth to wax seals--for you know, fancy shit, the gels, and the slightly-better trained hands to deal with hazardous materials and fashion some tools, it becomes a quick factory where some "strange" skills suddenly become very very useful and necessary.

And they can train anyone without those skills, very quickly and ably.

So, good on those kids.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,583
29,206
146

dude...let's send some envoys to Kazakhstan now. spread some goodwill. Would be interesting if all these old hats start tossing their shoulder towards Putin. hmm...Krygestan. ...now there's a place with a nutso miniPutin dog-punching sort of leader. I wonder what that dude thinks. I can't imagine him abandoning Putin...

say, I wonder how that civil war is going on still over in Uzbekistan? ...wonder if the world could help cool their heads for a bit by convincing enough of them to join up and go shoot some Russians, instead? A little common ground? hmm...
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,502
8,097
136
And people in cities don’t pay gas taxes because they all ride the bus.
I haven't been on a bus for some decades (yes, I know, that was satirical). I was thinking the other day while doing my 10 miles/day quad street skate. I roller skate ~7x further/year than I drive my car. Never bought gas for my skates. I drove maybe 400 miles last year. Much of that was to give it exercise. I skate for exercise... and fun. Driving's no fun. Some years ago I had a Triumph TR4, that WAS fun, but nowadays the roads are so crowded... I got over the sports car thing.