Russia and Georgia Prepare For New War

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
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Although not front page news, there is a gathering tension between U.S. ally Georgia, Russsia and Russian client state of South Ossetia. Intermittent exchanges of RPGs and gunfire underscore regional tensions, but more worrisome is the recent significant buildup of Russian forces in the area and the re-arming of Georgia by the Ukraine and other neighbors.

This is likely the next European war. The question that I have is, "Will Obama do anything different than Bush and the EU did last time around?"

Russia says raises readiness of troops in S.Ossetia

Russia says raises readiness of troops in S.Ossetia
By Amie Ferris-Rotman
Reuters 8/4/2009

MOSCOW (Reuters) ? A year after fighting a war with Georgia, Russia strengthened the combat readiness of its troops in the rebel region of South Ossetia on Tuesday and warned the United States against rearming Georgia.

"Provocations from the Georgian side... are not stopping," Andrei Nesterenko, a Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman, said in a statement. "In connection with this, we have stepped up the combat readiness of Russian troops and border guards."

Tension has been rising in South Ossetia ahead of the August 7 anniversary of the war, which began when Georgian forces launched an assault on the Moscow-backed rebel enclave.

Kremlin chief Dmitry Medvedev discussed the situation in Georgia with U.S. President Barack Obama on Tuesday. The Kremlin said they discussed the lessons of last year's war by telephone but gave no further details on what was said about Georgia.

The European Union has called on all sides to show restraint but in recent days the rebels and Georgia have accused each other of firing across the de facto border.

"The Russian occupiers and proxy regimes still continue to pursue their efforts aimed at further raising tension," the Georgian Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

Tbilisi said late on Monday that three rocket-propelled grenades were fired from the rebel region at a Georgian village near the boundary. No one was hurt. South Ossetia has accused Georgian forces of firing mortars, a charge Tbilisi denied.

The rebel region's leader ordered the closure of the last segment of the border through which ethnic Georgians living in the Georgian-populated Akhalgori region had previously been given permission to cross.

"To avoid any kind of provocation from the Georgian side, from 12 o'clock tonight the state border with the republic of South Ossetia will be closed," the enclave's leader, Eduard Kokoity, a 44-year-old ex-wrestler, said on the rebel website www.cominf.org.

The only official way into the pine-covered region is through the Rocky Tunnel from Russia's North Ossetia region.

MOSCOW RAPS UNITED STATES

Underscoring the tension, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin warned the United States and Ukraine against rearming Georgia.

"It is highly regrettable that the Americans are going to further pump up (Georgian President) Mikheil Saakashvili's military machine," Karasin told Interfax news agency.

"Washington is playing the key role in rearming the Georgian war machine."

He said Moscow "would not stand aloof, watching an unpredictable regime being again openly armed right at our borders in the Caucasus."

Ukraine -- which wants to join NATO -- is "unfriendly" to Russia by being one of the "most active" arms suppliers to Georgia, Karasin said, adding that Russia would "deliberately thwart" supplies of arms to Tbilisi.

After months of escalating tension, Russia last year crushed Georgia's assault on South Ossetia and sent tanks deep into Georgia proper, provoking condemnation from the European Union and the United States.

After an EU-brokered ceasefire ended the five-day war, Russia recognized South Ossetia and another rebel region, Abkhazia, as independent states, though the rest of the world still considers them part of Georgia.

Russian Troop On High Readiness in South Ossetia

Russian troops on high readiness in South Ossetia
By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV, Associated Press Writer 8/4/2009
AP writer Mansur Mirovalev contributed from Tskhinvali, Georgia

MOSCOW ? Russian troops in the breakaway province of South Ossetia have been put on increased combat readiness amid rising tensions on the de facto border with Georgia, officials said Tuesday.

Andrei Nesterenko, the spokesman for Russia's Foreign Ministry, said the move was a response to Georgian "provocations" and meant to prevent more violence.

"The most important thing now is to prevent escalation and not to allow skirmishes to grow into bigger clashes," Nesterenko said.

The situation near South Ossetia has become increasingly tense as the first anniversary of the Russian-Georgian war approaches Friday, with Georgia and Russia blaming each other for provocations and intentions to resume fighting.

U.S. President Barack Obama and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev discussed the "lessons of last year's Georgian crisis" in a telephone conversation late Tuesday, the Kremlin said in a statement. There was no elaboration.

Obama said during a recent summit in Moscow that Georgia's territorial integrity must be respected.

The August 2008 conflict erupted after escalating exchanges of fire between Georgia and Moscow-backed South Ossetian forces.

South Ossetia's separatists and Georgian authorities have accused each other of firing guns and mortar rounds on several occasions over the past few days.

The separatist leader, Eduard Kokoity, told The Associated Press in an interview Tuesday that "there is a danger that August 2008 will be repeated."

"Today, Georgia's military is more combat-ready and has a stronger potential" than during the run-up to last year's conflict, Kokoity said.

In the latest incident, Monday night, South Ossetia's separatist authorities said three mortar rounds were fired into South Ossetia from Georgian-controlled territory. Georgian authorities denied the claim and accused separatists of firing rocket-propelled grenades at a Georgian checkpoint near South Ossetia. No one was hurt.

The European Union said it was concerned about mutual accusations of shelling and other incidents, but added that EU monitors in Georgia had seen no evidence confirming them so far.

"The EU urges all sides to refrain from any statement or action that may lead to increased tensions at this particularly sensitive time," the international organization said in a statement late Monday.

EU monitors are the only international ones remaining in Georgia, but they are blocked from traveling inside South Ossetia and Abkhazia. A EU-brokered truce ended the five-day August war between Georgia and Russia. Russia sent in thousands of troops and tanks that routed the Georgian military and drove deep into Georgia.

Georgian authorities claimed they had to launch the artillery barrage on Tskhinvali, the provincial capital, because Russian troops had moved into South Ossetia hours earlier. Russian officials denied this, and claimed the country acted to protect its peacekeepers and civilians there.

After the war, Russia recognized South Ossetia and Abkhazia, another separatist region in Georgia, as independent nations and permanently deployed thousands of troops there.

The only other country to recognize the regions' independence is Nicaragua.

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili said in an interview with France's RTL radio broadcast Tuesday that there is a risk of a new conflict because Russia was putting constant pressure on Georgia. He said Georgia would not engage in conflict with Russia but would defend itself if necessary.

Meanwhile, a senior Russian diplomat voiced concern about what he said were U.S. plans to provide military assistance to Georgia.

"Washington is playing the key role in rearming the Georgian military machine," Grigory Karasin, a deputy foreign minister, said in comments reported Tuesday by the Interfax agency. "It would be in the interests of Georgian democracy ... to refuse to arm this country at all."

South Ossetia's Kokoity echoed Karasin's sentiments, saying countries that arm Georgia "are responsible for any further (military) developments."

The U.S. is discussing a Georgian request for $16 million in military aid this year, with most of the money intended for training and technical assistance. But Washington reacted coolly after Saakashvili told The Washington Post that Georgia was interested in acquiring heavy weapons for defensive purposes.
 

CrackRabbit

Lifer
Mar 30, 2001
16,642
62
91
So, you think if we give the Russians everything south of say.... Savannah they would leave us alone?
If they want we can throw in Jimmy Carter and all of Florida for free!
;)
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
37
91
Cash for clunkers and Michael Jackson are much more important than a probable proxy war between two nuclear armed states.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
So, you think if we give the Russians everything south of say.... Savannah they would leave us alone?
If they want we can throw in Jimmy Carter and all of Florida for free!
;)

I believe that the Russians will be happy to do an even exchange of Eastern Siberia for the Florida Panhandle area, say to Muscle Shoals, if we also throw in an enclave in Palm Beach that will be populated solely by the blue hair liberal voting population of Florida (i.e. ex-New Yorkers.) They will will be happy with this for exactly one year. At which point they and their client state will demand the annexation of Dahlonega as a provocateur region.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Saakashvili prolly spent his last installment of US aid, needs to start sh!t to get some attention to get more money. If he tries to start another war, Russians should not leave him alive to try again.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
37
91
Originally posted by: senseamp
Saakashvili prolly spent his last installment of US aid, needs to start sh!t to get some attention to get more money. If he tries to start another war, Russians should not leave him alive to try again.

Why would you side with Russia over a country the President you voted for supports? :confused:
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: blackangst1
lol I guess Georgia didnt learn the first time :p Dont poke the bear!
Yep, with Allies like this who needs enemies?

 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: blackangst1
lol I guess Georgia didnt learn the first time :p Dont poke the bear!
Yep, with Allies like this who needs enemies?

Politico 44 - A Living Diary Of The Obama Presidency - 8/4/2009

BIDEN BACKS UP GEORGIA: On the same day that POTUS spoke by phone with Russian President Medvedev, VPOTUS and Georgian President Saakashvili had a phone call of their own. Here's the readout from the White House:

"Vice President Biden called Georgian President Saakashvili today to discuss the current situation in Georgia. Vice President Biden expressed concern about the recent escalation in tensions and emphasized that all parties should avoid destabilizing actions. He also underscored the importance of having an objective international monitoring mission with access to both sides of the boundary line. Vice President Biden reiterated U.S. support for Georgia?s democracy."
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
so on the 1 year anniversary they will redo the battle? cool. this time we should set up bleachers and have us a good ol spectator sport.
 

cubeless

Diamond Member
Sep 17, 2001
4,295
1
81
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
so on the 1 year anniversary they will redo the battle? cool. this time we should set up bleachers and have us a good ol spectator sport.

maybe we will get predator video...
 

fornax

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
6,866
0
76
Originally posted by: senseamp
Saakashvili prolly spent his last installment of US aid, needs to start sh!t to get some attention to get more money. If he tries to start another war, Russians should not leave him alive to try again.

Yep, apparently they did not learn their lesson the first time. It is sad the bad luck Georgia has had with rulers: Shevardnadze, now Saakashvili... They were the best-off republic in Soviet times, and now look at them - having to do actual work and living illegally in Russia - much like the Mexicans here.

The Russian have displayed great patience, but are slowly getting pissed. One official said that they are thinking of imposing sanctions on US companies. He mentioned Boeing, GE and some others. Even Israel stopped arming those cretins.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
37
91
Originally posted by: fornax
Originally posted by: senseamp
Saakashvili prolly spent his last installment of US aid, needs to start sh!t to get some attention to get more money. If he tries to start another war, Russians should not leave him alive to try again.

Yep, apparently they did not learn their lesson the first time. It is sad the bad luck Georgia has had with rulers: Shevardnadze, now Saakashvili... They were the best-off republic in Soviet times, and now look at them - having to do actual work and living illegally in Russia - much like the Mexicans here.

The Russian have displayed great patience, but are slowly getting pissed. One official said that they are thinking of imposing sanctions on US companies. He mentioned Boeing, GE and some others. Even Israel stopped arming those cretins.


So just how Red are you, really?
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
I wonder if this has any relevance to the two Russian subs parked off the US east coast, apparently the first time in 15 years two "front line" subs have done such a thing.
 

0marTheZealot

Golden Member
Apr 5, 2004
1,692
0
0
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: fornax
Originally posted by: senseamp
Saakashvili prolly spent his last installment of US aid, needs to start sh!t to get some attention to get more money. If he tries to start another war, Russians should not leave him alive to try again.

Yep, apparently they did not learn their lesson the first time. It is sad the bad luck Georgia has had with rulers: Shevardnadze, now Saakashvili... They were the best-off republic in Soviet times, and now look at them - having to do actual work and living illegally in Russia - much like the Mexicans here.

The Russian have displayed great patience, but are slowly getting pissed. One official said that they are thinking of imposing sanctions on US companies. He mentioned Boeing, GE and some others. Even Israel stopped arming those cretins.


So just how Red are you, really?

You do know that Georgia provoked the first war right? They shelled the hell out of several cities before Russia came in and laid the smackdown on them. Georgia, apparently, had the green light from Bush to actually start the war, but we never intervened on their behalf and they paid dearly.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: fornax
Originally posted by: senseamp
Saakashvili prolly spent his last installment of US aid, needs to start sh!t to get some attention to get more money. If he tries to start another war, Russians should not leave him alive to try again.

Yep, apparently they did not learn their lesson the first time. It is sad the bad luck Georgia has had with rulers: Shevardnadze, now Saakashvili... They were the best-off republic in Soviet times, and now look at them - having to do actual work and living illegally in Russia - much like the Mexicans here.

The Russian have displayed great patience, but are slowly getting pissed. One official said that they are thinking of imposing sanctions on US companies. He mentioned Boeing, GE and some others. Even Israel stopped arming those cretins.


So just how Red are you, really?

You do know that Georgia provoked the first war right? They shelled the hell out of several cities before Russia came in and laid the smackdown on them. Georgia, apparently, had the green light from Bush to actually start the war, but we never intervened on their behalf and they paid dearly.

Has Russian ever allowed international observers to verify their claims of 1000 citizens killed by the shelling?

The whole invasion had the Aug 31st 1939 attack on a German radio station by polish forces stink about it.

I find it fascinating anybody bothers taking sides, including myself. Senseamp is all excited about killing the president of Georgia. Why? What vested interest does he have in that region of the world?
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: fornax
Originally posted by: senseamp
Saakashvili prolly spent his last installment of US aid, needs to start sh!t to get some attention to get more money. If he tries to start another war, Russians should not leave him alive to try again.

Yep, apparently they did not learn their lesson the first time. It is sad the bad luck Georgia has had with rulers: Shevardnadze, now Saakashvili... They were the best-off republic in Soviet times, and now look at them - having to do actual work and living illegally in Russia - much like the Mexicans here.

The Russian have displayed great patience, but are slowly getting pissed. One official said that they are thinking of imposing sanctions on US companies. He mentioned Boeing, GE and some others. Even Israel stopped arming those cretins.


So just how Red are you, really?

You do know that Georgia provoked the first war right? They shelled the hell out of several cities before Russia came in and laid the smackdown on them. Georgia, apparently, had the green light from Bush to actually start the war, but we never intervened on their behalf and they paid dearly.
Well, it was their land.

 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,060
45,003
136
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: fornax
Originally posted by: senseamp
Saakashvili prolly spent his last installment of US aid, needs to start sh!t to get some attention to get more money. If he tries to start another war, Russians should not leave him alive to try again.

Yep, apparently they did not learn their lesson the first time. It is sad the bad luck Georgia has had with rulers: Shevardnadze, now Saakashvili... They were the best-off republic in Soviet times, and now look at them - having to do actual work and living illegally in Russia - much like the Mexicans here.

The Russian have displayed great patience, but are slowly getting pissed. One official said that they are thinking of imposing sanctions on US companies. He mentioned Boeing, GE and some others. Even Israel stopped arming those cretins.


So just how Red are you, really?

You do know that Georgia provoked the first war right? They shelled the hell out of several cities before Russia came in and laid the smackdown on them. Georgia, apparently, had the green light from Bush to actually start the war, but we never intervened on their behalf and they paid dearly.

Has Russian ever allowed international observers to verify their claims of 1000 citizens killed by the shelling?

The whole invasion had the Aug 31st 1939 attack on a German radio station by polish forces stink about it.

I find it fascinating anybody bothers taking sides, including myself. Senseamp is all excited about killing the president of Georgia. Why? What vested interest does he have in that region of the world?

Yes, the other view on how things developed was that the Russians had the ethnic Russian S. Ossetians provoke Georgia into attacking. Then the Russians could swoop in with their many divisions which just so happened to be idling on the other side of the border to secure the area. Rather convenient. There are even some indications that the Russians staged tanks and troops over the border before the breakout of hostilities.

Georgia was stupid for falling into the trap but the Russians have to be crazy if they think they fooled anyone else.

The Russian casualty numbers from the Georgian shelling of S. Ossetia have never been corroborated (in fact they've been refuted) by any source outside Moscow.
 

AzN

Banned
Nov 26, 2001
4,112
2
0
Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: fornax
Originally posted by: senseamp
Saakashvili prolly spent his last installment of US aid, needs to start sh!t to get some attention to get more money. If he tries to start another war, Russians should not leave him alive to try again.

Yep, apparently they did not learn their lesson the first time. It is sad the bad luck Georgia has had with rulers: Shevardnadze, now Saakashvili... They were the best-off republic in Soviet times, and now look at them - having to do actual work and living illegally in Russia - much like the Mexicans here.

The Russian have displayed great patience, but are slowly getting pissed. One official said that they are thinking of imposing sanctions on US companies. He mentioned Boeing, GE and some others. Even Israel stopped arming those cretins.


So just how Red are you, really?

You do know that Georgia provoked the first war right? They shelled the hell out of several cities before Russia came in and laid the smackdown on them. Georgia, apparently, had the green light from Bush to actually start the war, but we never intervened on their behalf and they paid dearly.

US knows not to mess around when Russia or China is involved. Always let the small guy take the hit.
 
Aug 23, 2000
15,509
1
81
Originally posted by: Genx87



I find it fascinating anybody bothers taking sides, including myself. Senseamp is all excited about killing the president of Georgia. Why? What vested interest does he have in that region of the world?

Typical female. likes sticking their noses in other peoples business.