• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Russ Feingold speech on the Citizens United 5-4 ruling

Russ Feingold has been a champion for our democracy, against turning it into a money-based government (which has happened too much).

His speech is a good reminder that all of us should be keeping this at the top of political priorities, rather than get complacent.

It's not a normal political issue that we can just vote what we want, but there are two things.

- Put in place the small counter-measures Congress can do that Feingold calls "weak tea".

- Vote for Presidents who will appoint judges who will fix this (note who appinted the bad 5).

Obama seems he will do so if he can - there will be a choice again in 2012. If you want to vote Republican, limit your vote to those who pledge opposition to Citizens United - if any.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/09/17-14

… It was in the early 1990s, under some Democrats, where the bright idea was cooked up, “Well, gee, why don’t we let corporations and unions and wealthy individuals give unlimited campaign contributions to the political parties independent of the campaign finance limits that had been put in place in the 1970s?”

This was the beginning of soft money. . . . There was no controlling legal authority to prevent a corporation from giving a million dollars Monday night to the Democrats and a million dollars Tuesday night to the Republicans, and on Wednesday have a vote to pass a lousy trade agreement that sends our jobs overseas. That’s exactly what happened with the unlimited campaign contributions. This was a growing cancer in our system.

That’s why John McCain and I and others succeeded in banning those kinds of contributions. . . . And the right and the corporations were absolutely fit to be tied. They couldn’t believe we’d actually achieved something on a bipartisan basis for the American people.

And they started to plot, and they started to work. And of course a certain guy named George Bush became President by a vote of the Supreme Court. And they got some judicial appointments. People that came before the Judiciary Committee and promised me, under oath, that they would follow precedent, that they would be neutral umpires calling balls and strikes.

Well, of course, they did the opposite. They took every opportunity they could when it came to the campaign finance laws to destroy everything but the ban that McCain and I got into place.

So what did they do? They did the Citizens United case. Now just about everybody I’ve talked to said this is one of the worst decisions in the history of the United States Supreme Court. These people who pledged to promise precedent overturned a law signed by Teddy Roosevelt in 1907, proposed and backed by Fighting Bob La Follette. And it’s been the law of the land for 100 years that corporations cannot use their treasuries to directly impact elections. It’s always been the law for 100 years. In 1947, conservatives weren’t very happy that they weren’t the only ones limited, so they managed to get through a provision in the Taft-Hartley Act that said unions couldn’t do it, either. And so it continued, and it was understood that that was impossible to do in the United States. That’s why they were looking for other ways to do it; that’s why they wanted to use this soft money scam. Court case after court case after court case reaffirmed that these statutes were valid and a foundation of our system of government.

So what did these five justices say? They said, “Actually we went back and checked with the founders of the country. And the founders apparently believed that corporations were exactly the same as us, and that a corporation has every right the same as us, and therefore you cannot restrict their ability to buy an election.”

It’s a lawless decision by our highest court.

But four justices disputed it, led by John Paul Stevens, a 90-year-old justice in his last major decision. He went up to the bench—and they usually just announce their decision—and he made these guys listen to him for 20 minutes as he summarized his brilliant 80-page decision, disputing that the corporations are the same as us.

They are not the same as us. They do not have the same rights as all of us. And that decision is wrong on the law, and wrong for America, and an enormous danger for the political process as we go forward.

It’s the Supreme Court. It’s a court case. How can you get people to understand and feel what this means for them? Well, I’ve been amazed at my town meetings. People who I thought would never want to bring up this subject say, “What in the heck was that decision?” Across the board. Even tea party people think it’s a bad decision.

And all you got to tell people is this is what it means. If you go down the street, and go into, let’s say, a BP gas station and buy $10 of gas, that money can now for the first time in 100 years be immediately placed on television to defend candidates who defend Big Oil, and big insurance companies, and the pharmaceutical industry. That’s what it means.

What do they want? They want us to start picking Democratic toothpaste companies and Republican toothpaste companies? That’s what we’re going to have to do if the law says that corporations can use your money to directly influence elections.

Now we’re trying to do something about this mess. We can only go so far in the Congress because it’s a constitutional decision. But we’re trying to pass something. We’ve got 59 votes. We need one more. It’s called the Disclose Act. It’s pretty weak tea. It doesn’t even deal with the danger of foreign money coming in through this decision. It just says that you should have to disclose who you are. So Exxon can’t say we’re the Family Friendly People. They have to say they’re Exxon.

…I don’t want to kid you. Even if we pass it, it’s only a tiny step. We need to overturn this decision. We need to overturn this decision. That means President Obama needs another appointment either in this term or a second term or this democracy will head dramatically in the wrong direction. We have got to overturn this decision. And as we strategize to do whatever we can do, between now and then, to limit the effects of this decision, I want you to know that I’m committed to this cause because I think it goes to the very core of our democracy.
 
lol @ feingold. Seems the state that he knows like the back of his hand is going to give him the back of their hand. :awe:
 
Russ Feingold has been a champion for our democracy, against turning it into a money-based government (which has happened too much).

His speech is a good reminder that all of us should be keeping this at the top of political priorities, rather than get complacent.

It's not a normal political issue that we can just vote what we want, but there are two things.

- Put in place the small counter-measures Congress can do that Feingold calls "weak tea".

- Vote for Presidents who will appoint judges who will fix this (note who appinted the bad 5).

Obama seems he will do so if he can - there will be a choice again in 2012. If you want to vote Republican, limit your vote to those who pledge opposition to Citizens United - if any.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/09/17-14

Blah blah blah blah blah

I want judges who will base their decisions based on the letter of the law, not on how they wish to personally see our government reshaped.
 
The legislative branch of government is where your "fixes" need to take place, not the judicial branch.

Or did you fail out of the 5th grade?


All this ranting is, is taking the letter of the law and assuming it will play out in the worst case scenario. Have a little faith in humanity, you'll be a much better person. For if you have no faith in humanity left, then what the fuck good is a few more laws twisted towards your ideology? What good will those words do?
 
Last edited:
If only we had a president and congress who could keep a promise along the lines of kicking lobbyists out of Washington, increasing the openness and transparency of government, and having the highest ethical standards of any administration ever.

If we could only see that come true, maybe we wouldn't have to worry so much about which corporations are trying to buy votes. Maybe then, none of this would matter, because politicians would be held accountable for their actions.

God, wouldn't it be nice if we had a president and a congress that would do that. Golly.
 
These people who pledged to promise precedent overturned a law signed by Teddy Roosevelt in 1907
fwiw, if you in good faith think the precedent is wrong then it should be overturned.
 
fwiw, if you in good faith think the precedent is wrong then it should be overturned.

How ignorant and naive, 'they thought in good faith the precedent is wrong'. You don't get the legal issues, do you? Try reading Stevens' dissent.

You don't understand that these 4 judges - Kennedy aside - are Federalist Society radicals who have an agenda to overthrow our legal precedents, and lied about their intentions.

To make an analogy with Roberts, imagine there's a Muslim nominee to the Supreme Court, who is asked if he's been a member of a group who is pushing for Sharia Law to be the law of the US, and he says to the best of his memory, no, and then it's found he was an official in that organization (that's what happened with Roberts and the Federalist Society), and then he promises to respect the legal history of precedents in the US rather than impose any Sharia ideology, and then votes 'Sharia is the law of the land'.

And then here comes your counterpart when the Senator he lied to complains, saying 'if he really thinks the constitution calls for Sharia Law, he should vote that way'.
 
Last edited:
The American people are becoming a bit disturbed by always being fucked by the rich so the tea party has appeared to bleed off that rage.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tillman_Act_of_1907



"An Act to prohibit corporations from making money contributions in connection with political elections. Be it enacted, That it shall be unlawful for any national bank, or any corporation organized by authority of any laws of Congress, to make a money contribution in connection with any election to any political office. It shall also be unlawful for any corporation whatever to make a money contribution in connection with any election at which Presidential and Vice-Presidential electors or a Representative in Congress is to be voted for or any election by any State legislature of a United States Senator. Every corporation which shall make any contribution in violation of the foregoing provisions shall be subject to a fine not exceeding five thousand dollars, and every officer or director of any corporation who shall consent to any contribution by the corporation in violation of the foregoing provisions shall upon conviction be punished by a fine of not exceeding one thousand and not less than two hundred and fifty dollars, or by imprisonment for a term of not more than one year, or both such fine and imprisonment in the discretion of the court."


Sounds perfectly proper to me. Nowhere in the Constitution does it even mention corporations, let alone grant them "personhood" status.

The recent USSC ruling is just another example of how the nation of "We the People" has been bought out by "We the Corporations."
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tillman_Act_of_1907



"An Act to prohibit corporations from making money contributions in connection with political elections. Be it enacted, That it shall be unlawful for any national bank, or any corporation organized by authority of any laws of Congress, to make a money contribution in connection with any election to any political office. It shall also be unlawful for any corporation whatever to make a money contribution in connection with any election at which Presidential and Vice-Presidential electors or a Representative in Congress is to be voted for or any election by any State legislature of a United States Senator. Every corporation which shall make any contribution in violation of the foregoing provisions shall be subject to a fine not exceeding five thousand dollars, and every officer or director of any corporation who shall consent to any contribution by the corporation in violation of the foregoing provisions shall upon conviction be punished by a fine of not exceeding one thousand and not less than two hundred and fifty dollars, or by imprisonment for a term of not more than one year, or both such fine and imprisonment in the discretion of the court."


Sounds perfectly proper to me. Nowhere in the Constitution does it even mention corporations, let alone grant them "personhood" status.

The recent USSC ruling is just another example of how the nation of "We the People" has been bought out by "We the Corporations."

Exactly.

After the 14th amendment was passed to ensure that newly 'equal' blacks were treated equally under the law, in the following business-crazy decades there were more cases in the courts about the 14th and corporations than there were about the 14th and blacks, as corporations raced to try to get the business-friendly courts to rule benefit for them. They lost again and again and again but had the funds to finally get what they wanted.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tillman_Act_of_1907

Sounds perfectly proper to me. Nowhere in the Constitution does it even mention corporations, let alone grant them "personhood" status.

The recent USSC ruling is just another example of how the nation of "We the People" has been bought out by "We the Corporations."
First point is wrong. The 10th Amendment leaves it up to the states. Nowhere does the Constitution mention contributions either. All powers not delegated to the Federal Government are reserved to the states or to the people.

Your 2nd point is also flawed. The majority of the people keep on voting for representatives who allow themselves to be influenced by corporations. Corporate welfare is popular. How many people want to get rid of the FDA? Not a majority. How many people want to get rid of the banking cartel? Not many. How many people want to cut military spending to 1/10 of what it currently is? Not many. If people vote for Obama or corporatists, then they are either indifferent to corporatism or they actually like it. McCain is a corporatist and he doesn't even realize. Feingold probably is too, if they voted against Auditing the Fed.

Take this case as an example: Dr. Paul accepts contributions from corporations, but he flat out tells them TO THEIR FACES that his voting record will NOT be influenced by them no matter how much money they contribute to him.

If you vote for a candidate who refuses to give in to the big corporations, then it doesn't matter how much the corporations donate to that candidate.

All 9 justice are corporatists to a degree. Some more than others, but nonetheless, they're all corporatists.
 
Last edited:
First point is wrong. The 10th Amendment leaves it up to the states. Nowhere does the Constitution mention contributions either. All powers not delegated to the Federal Government are reserved to the states or to the people.

Your 2nd point is also flawed. The majority of the people keep on voting for representatives who allow themselves to be influenced by corporations. Corporate welfare is popular. How many people want to get rid of the FDA? Not a majority. How many people want to get rid of the banking cartel? Not many. How many people want to cut military spending to 1/10 of what it currently is? Not many. If people vote for Obama or corporatists, then they are either indifferent to corporatism or they actually like it. McCain is a corporatist and he doesn't even realize. Feingold probably is too, if they voted against Auditing the Fed.

Take this case as an example: Dr. Paul accepts contributions from corporations, but he flat out tells them TO THEIR FACES that his voting record will NOT be influenced by them no matter how much money they contribute to him.

If you vote for a candidate who refuses to give in to the big corporations, then it doesn't matter how much the corporations donate to that candidate.

All 9 justice are corporatists to a degree. Some more than others, but nonetheless, they're all corporatists.


Hmmm, I didn't know the USSC had decided the corporate personhood issue for the states...are you confused? I said nothing that related to states' rights.

As for the 2nd point, I actually agree, but then, you've helped make my point for me. I don't think "Joe Citizen" is a corporatist, nor a supporter of corporatism, but rather, he just turns a blind eye to the corporate corruption that has infested our political process.
Sure, he may rant & rave about "crooked politicians," but a few catchy sound bites, and he turns right around and re-elects the same batch of crooks...or ignores all the news stories about "his favorite" candidate, and elects him anyway...then feigns surprise when he/they turn out to be a crook...it's apathy...as long as life goes on relatively unchanged, Joe Citizen doesn't really care if Congressman DeepPockets is bought and paid for by the corporations...he just wants to go through life without being bothered...

I'm sorry to see that you've partaken so deeply of the Ron Paul Kool-aid...I'm sure that MOST politicians also claim that they won't be influenced by campaign contributions...and even when they vote in favor of their contributors, they seem to always say, "No, the $6,000,000 campaign contribution by Megaglomacorp had no influence what so ever on my decision to cut their taxes and to provide them with federal funds to help them send all their peon jobs overseas."
 
The citizens united case was a huge victory for free speech. Why do liberals hate free speech so much?

🙄

campaign contributions are not a form of speech, although I'm actually surprised that it took so long for a corporatist to try to make the connection.
 
The ruling wasn't about campaign contributions. It was about free speech.

McCain/Feingold was ruled unconstitutional because it went against the 1st amendment. The reason dems/liberals have twisted it into being about contributions is because now people, PACs, other groups have the same protections as unions enjoyed.

The ruling was correct. You can't have a law that violates the 1st amendment which McCain/Feingold did. The ruling was a huge victory for free speech, that's what the entire case was about and why CU brought the suit.
 
Last edited:
The problem with any of these acts is that it targets one half of the bribe contract. The recipient needs to be punished as well, and severely. Yeah, I know. Progressive to Far Right- it will never happen.
 
If the SC judges said they checked back with the founders and the founders agreed that corporations have every right the same as us, they they were lying through their teeth.

Corporations are not mentioned in the constitution and this issue has nothing to do with free speech.

I have posted this before and do so again.

1. The constitution does not give SC the right to rule on the constitutionality of laws.

The SC took it upon themselves (in 1803) to do so in Marbury vs Madison. See the Criticism in that section.
Quote
"Because the Constitution lacks a clear statement authorizing the Federal courts to nullify the acts of coequal branches, critics contend that the argument for judicial review must rely on a significant gloss on the Constitution's terms. Despite such criticisms of Marbury v. Madison, judicial review has been accepted in the American legal community." UNQUOTE

2. As to corporation rights, the Fourteenth Amendment was written to protect the rights of blacks from hostile courts and to prevent the SC overruling the civil rights act of 1866 which gave them rights as citizens. The term used to describe blacks was 'persons'.

This case: Santa Clara County vs Southern Pacific Railroad (in 1886) has been used as legal precedence to apply the 14th amendment protections to corporations (something the 14th amend didn't really intend to do) by including corporations in the definition of persons.

Interestingly, the extension of protections to corps was not addressed by the court in it's decision. The Headnote, which is a summary of the decision written by the court reporter prior to publication in the US Reports, is where the concept is stated. That particular court reporter had been a past president of a railroad company - I would assume his sympathies lay with the railroad - arguably a question of conflict of interest.:

This is what the judge wrote in a memo to the court reporter:
I think your mem. in the California Railroad Tax cases expresses with sufficient accuracy what was said before the argument began. I leave it with you to determine whether anything need be said about it in the report inasmuch as we avoided meeting the constitutional question in the decision.
See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Clara_County_v._Southern_Pacific_Railroad#A_passing_remark


There is no constitutional right for corporations to be given any 'rights' as a person. It is the SC's interpretation of the First amendment which has given corporations that privilege. And all SC's interpretations have been based on the Santa Clara County case - which should not have been used for precedent.

There is too much riding on this issue to even try to overturn this precedent. And of course our current SC make up does not help.

The more money in politics the more crooked it will be.

We can see who the 'activist Judges' have been.

..
 
GroundedSailor, so you're OK with a law that tells me or a group of people they cannot run ads about their book or documentary? That's what the case was about.

Are you OK with the federal government saying what can and cannot be published or aired near elections? That's what the case was about.
 
GroundedSailor, so you're OK with a law that tells me or a group of people they cannot run ads about their book or documentary? That's what the case was about.

Are you OK with the federal government saying what can and cannot be published or aired near elections? That's what the case was about.

As I posted earlier this case is based on false premises and should never have been heard by the SC in the first place.

No I am not OK with restricting your or my speech.

Yes I am 100% OK with limiting corporations and organizations to ZERO. They were never given rights as you & I have been. The fact that they are treated with the same rights is wrong in my book and I will completely back any politician who would curtail their activities.

IMHO treating corporations equal to citizens is the single most wrong heaped upon the American people by the judicial branch - and that too, as I have shown, is not based on any court decision. So much for Stare Decisis.


..
 
As I posted earlier this case is based on false premises and should never have been heard by the SC in the first place.

No I am not OK with restricting your or my speech.

Yes I am 100% OK with limiting corporations and organizations to ZERO. They were never given rights as you & I have been. The fact that they are treated with the same rights is wrong in my book and I will completely back any politician who would curtail their activities.

IMHO treating corporations equal to citizens is the single most wrong heaped upon the American people by the judicial branch - and that too, as I have shown, is not based on any court decision. So much for Stare Decisis.


..

Where in the following is the word corporation, or its equality to people, or right to dominate:

"Of the people, for the people, by the people."

Indeed, the reason this phrase even has meaning is that it must be saying 'the people, not something else'. So what is that something else?

It's not dogs and horses. It's not space aliens.

The only thing that makes sense is 'not some special interest'. That could be the military, but we haven't had a real issue with military rule. What makes sense: rich, corporations.
 
Last edited:
Where in the following is the word corporation, or its equality to people, or right to dominate:

"Of the people, for the people, by the people."

Indeed, the reason this phrase even has meaning is that it must be saying 'the people, not something else'. So what is that something else?

It's not dogs and horses. It's not space aliens.

The only thing that makes sense is 'not some special interest'. That could be the military, but we haven't had a real issue with military rule. What makes sense: rich, corporations.

*sigh*

What are special interests? People who have a want or need.
What is the military? People who serve to protect this nation.
What are corporations? A group of people.

I'm really starting to think you did flunk out of 5th grade

You didn't even care to write the quote correctly 😛 Though I do love the irony in you quoting a Republican to build the foundation of your stance! And it's just one Presidential speech, that line is not in our constitution, it is not in any of our founding documents... Is that what you want to do? Declare all Presidential speeches, especially those said by Republicans, essential language to shape our government's future?

Or are you going to just cherry pick the lines from speeches that you can use to further your personal ideology?
 
Last edited:
What are special interests? People who have a want or need.
What is the military? People who serve to protect this nation.
What are corporations? A group of people.

Then those People should give to campaigns as they choose, as an individual, not as a group.
 
*sigh*

What are special interests? People who have a want or need.
What is the military? People who serve to protect this nation.
What are corporations? A group of people.


I'm really starting to think you did flunk out of 5th grade

You didn't even care to write the quote correctly 😛 Though I do love the irony in you quoting a Republican to build the foundation of your stance! And it's just one Presidential speech, that line is not in our constitution, it is not in any of our founding documents... Is that what you want to do? Declare all Presidential speeches, especially those said by Republicans, essential language to shape our government's future?

Or are you going to just cherry pick the lines from speeches that you can use to further your personal ideology?

Except that the Bill of Rights are individual, not collective. There are no rights given to any collectives / organizations / corporations except by faulty precedent of the SC.

Remember only persons (citizens) have the right to vote.

..
 
Then those People should give to campaigns as they choose, as an individual, not as a group.

This is where PACs come in. I, as an individual, have a 2400 dollar limit on how much I can contribute. Are you in favor of removing this limit so that a single individual can basically fund an entire candidate's campaign? A single person given the power to give as much as they want to influence elections by funding?

How about my right to free speech, which is what the case was about, are you OK with government saying what I can and cannot print or air before an election?

Think your line of reasoning through people. The people can organize and air or print whatever they want by pooling resources, or at least they should. But leftists think this is a bad idea, they of course want to silence any freedom of speech unless it agrees with them (ie. unions).
 
The American people are becoming a bit disturbed by always being fucked by the rich so the tea party has appeared to bleed off that rage.

Incorrect. Most people wish to be rich themselves. What they're disturbed by is their big bloated wasteful government who takes more and more of their money every year in taxes, watches it be spent on bullshit by incompetent elected officials and govt employees of all kinds, and stands in awe at even after all that waste, the govt manages to run bigger and bigger deficits.

No, the only bleeding we'll be doing in November is that of the Democratic majority.
 
Back
Top