Rushing air sound and loss of power?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by TridenT, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. CrackRabbit

    CrackRabbit Lifer

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    If he is in California right now it is against the law to have an auto parts store to pull the code for you.
    Stupid I know.
    It is worth it to get one of those bluetooth OBD II readers and download Torque or something similar for your phone.
     
  2. phucheneh

    phucheneh Diamond Member

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    Wow, that is a crazy law that I never knew about. WTF California? What do you have against poor people fixing their cars?

    I'd be willing to bet that law got passed based on some moron's misguided thought that a generic OBD2 tool could just 'turn the light out' and make them pass emissions.

    But anyway-

    http://www.amazon.com/ScanTool-42300...obd2+scan+tool

    That thing was a steal at 50 bucks. And a steal at 35 when I bought one. For 25 bucks, everyone without a scan tool needs to jump on that. Even with the included software, you're talking about better functionality than any cheap standalone scanner (the ones in the low hundreds, before you make the giant leap to pro stuff).
     
  3. Fritzo

    Fritzo Lifer

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    Yep. My Mustang back in the day suffered from this. Difficult to fix too because it can be hard to find.
     
  4. TridenT

    TridenT Lifer

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    It was cleared. It was a broken jumper that caused the CEL.There was an exposed wire from the radio hook up that caused the fuse to break because it grounded out. I replaced the necessary fuses and the CEL went away. About 100 miles later or so, the CEL came back on. I figured the wire got exposed again (thought I fixed it). I just didn't bother with it because it takes a lot of time. I checked all my fuses and none were blown. So, I was like, "Well, that's weird. I'll try to get the code pulled later. Maybe it's something different. Maybe it just needs to be reset or something."

    The code was P0420 (Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1)) from getting it pulled at Pepboys. The car is getting looked over by a mechanic in Los Angeles right now. Hopefully he can fix it by the end of today for cheap. It's very likely an intake/exhaust manifold leak.
     
  5. Zenmervolt

    Zenmervolt Supermoderator<br>The Garage<br>Elite member

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    Most likely you're looking at an O2 senor at the very least with that code. Usually you don't see that unless the system is getting an abnormal reading after the catalytic converter but nothing weird enough before then to add another code. Worst case is needing to replace the catalytic converter.

    Anyway, there's probably something else behind that code that needs to be fixed too.

    As far as code readers, if you have an Android smartphone you can download Torque for under $5 and then pickup a bluetooth OBD-II adapter like this one. For under $30 I have a pretty nice scan tool that's very portable. The tool that phucheneh suggested is also a good option.

    ZV
     
    #30 Zenmervolt, Dec 19, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  6. TridenT

    TridenT Lifer

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    Is there one for iPhone's/iOS for similar price? That would be nice. I doubt my civic reads off more than the codes though. (It's a 2000)

    http://www.amazon.com/review/R1278FFU8TLK1M/ref=cm_srch_res_rtr_alt_1 Seems there is a way to do it with that one. I have my phone jailbroken.
     
    #31 TridenT, Dec 19, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  7. phucheneh

    phucheneh Diamond Member

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    If there is iPhone compatible ELM327 software with bluetooth support, you can use it.

    ELM327 is a common design that is widely manufacturered. I like the one I linked because the company is reputable. I can't say that other 'no name' cables are any worse; I just generally don't trust them when there is a proven option.

    ZV- I just bought my first Android (I know...little late to the party) and was thinking about a bluetooth adapter. Have you used that one on multiple makes with no issue? I have no idea who 'BAFX' is, but for 30 bucks it seems worth a try.

    I've heard that some of the cheaper stuff isn't a 'true' ELM327 chip; whatever that means. It's not like ELM is that great an interface, it's just functional and cheap. But I'm kind of leery of like...a knockoff of a knockoff.
     
  8. Zenmervolt

    Zenmervolt Supermoderator<br>The Garage<br>Elite member

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    The reviews suggest that there are some issues with the J1850-PWM protocol that Ford used prior to 2008 when the requirement for there to be CAN signaling with all OBD-II implementations. (I think Ford used J1850-PWM after 2008 too, but newer cars can use both protocols, but I could be wrong.)

    It's worked fine on several European cars but I haven't had occasion to try it on an older Ford yet.

    ZV
     
  9. TridenT

    TridenT Lifer

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    The shop I went to could not figure it out after taking up half the day. So I have to find another shop that specifically is fantastic with Honda civics. They only charged me 20 bucks though. So, that was nice. They tried a few things too.
     
  10. Pulsar

    Pulsar Diamond Member

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    Why did you even bother coming in here if you were going to ignore all the suggestions?

    Seriously. It's like you either can't read, or are just an idiot.

    To wit:
    "Hey guys, what does this sound like?"
    All 3 answers "Vacuum leak."
    "Hey, here's some crappy youtube file."
    More answers "Vacuum leak."
    "Hey, I think it's an intake manifold / exhaust manifold leak" (even though the two have absolutely nothing to do with eachother AT ALL)
    Final response "Piss off. You're acting like a 2nd grader with ADHD".
     
  11. TridenT

    TridenT Lifer

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    At another shop today. They have over 100 reviews and specialize in Hondas and Toyotas. So, hopefully they pull through and figure it out. I told the guy about a suspicion of a vacuum leak and all the symptoms I am encountering and when.

    He didn't seem to be as great as the people reviewed him as but maybe he will be...
     
  12. TridenT

    TridenT Lifer

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    Guy said the cat is clogged and needs to be replaced. He said the part is super expensive and the job would cost about $1200 in the end because of the part. (being close to $1k and there not being any aftermarket ones that meet California's emission requirements) I'm not sure what to do at this point... The car is unlikely to make it home on what it has right now.

    FML.


    And yeah. It's the cat. I did what one of the guys did. I slammed the gas while leaning out of the car and looking under. The cat is pushing out stuff.
     
    #37 TridenT, Dec 20, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2012
  13. nerp

    nerp Diamond Member

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    The noise is coming from under the hood but it's the cat?
    Ehhh?
     
  14. Phanuel

    Phanuel Platinum Member

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    [​IMG]

    Here's a cat pushing stuff
     
  15. phucheneh

    phucheneh Diamond Member

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    It's possible. The cat starts to clog and greatly increases exhaust backpressure, which then causes crankcase pressure to increase. Should be accompanied by lots of burning oil.

    So basically, he probably neglected to mention to us that it was previously misfiring and dumping fuel into the exhaust, and is now burning at least a quart of oil every thousand miles.

    ...just a guess.
     
  16. TridenT

    TridenT Lifer

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    It didn't really sound like it was misfiring from what I've heard... The exhaust escaping right before the cat is a lot louder than anything else going on.
     
  17. LTC8K6

    LTC8K6 Lifer

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    Earlier you said you smell oil when you rev it.
     
  18. phucheneh

    phucheneh Diamond Member

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    Cats, except in rare occasions of factory defect, pretty much get plugged up for one reason- they ingested too much fuel, got too hot, and the catalyst material melted.

    So the noise is not crankcase related at all? That's air escaping through a leak before the converter?

    Have you observered this leak personally? If so, where is it? Flex-pipe? Is the car rusty?

    Usually a head gasket will pop or the engine will otherwise just quit running before it will blow a hole in the exhaust. Unless it's already rusted up and ready to come apart.
     
  19. TridenT

    TridenT Lifer

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    It smelled something like oil. I could have mistaken oil for exhaust fumes that had not gone through the converter.

    How much do you think the repair should cost? I think the website the guy was using to buy the converter was overpriced..
     
  20. LTC8K6

    LTC8K6 Lifer

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    Check rock auto and see what they want for a cat.
     
  21. TridenT

    TridenT Lifer

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    The problem is that a lot of Rock autos don't meet CA emission requirements and many are not a direct fit. Getting both is rare..
     
  22. phucheneh

    phucheneh Diamond Member

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    ...then don't buy direct fit?

    Or have a regular cat proxy shipped to you or something. Not that I normally recommend breaking the law or anything (...ok yeah I do), but *** California.

    You can get a decent weld-in cat for like 200 bucks. Cheap ones go down to 50-100.

    Check Summit and see if they have weld-in CA-legal replacements. I would imagine they do since they're headquartered there.

    Is this cat under the car, where it's easily replaced by an exhaust shop, or in a manifold or downpipe assembly?
     
  23. TridenT

    TridenT Lifer

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    Under the car. It's an easy thing to swap.

    Unfortunately, with how California's laws work... a lot of mechanics in CA don't like putting non-CA-certified-emissions cats on... even if the car isn't from CA. EDIT: It's weird, but the guy is going to be putting one that isn't CA certified on either. I don't really get him because he was hesitant to not put one on that wasn't. Whatever... If I'm taken for a ride then so be it.

    Whatever. My car stalled today and couldn't get up a hill. I rolled down to a nearby autoshop. They'll be buying a super expensive part (Nearly $400) and then charging me $130 on top. In the end, I'm shelling out $530 for a cat replacement (Ridiculous, but whatever). It could be worse, but I wouldn't feel as bad if it was $300. The only problem with those really cheap cats is that they don't usually have O2 sensor ports. The one he ordered does and the guy will be fixing it all up by the end of today (5 hours from now).

    He's going to give me a report on the cat when they take it off and see if any of the stuff went downstream into the muffler and so forth... so that I'm not spending $530 on something that won't fix the problem...

    What can I do? I need my car to work and Christmas is coming up. A lot of shops are going to be closed for >4 days! I can't wait anymore and hope that my car just works.

    EDIT: Btw, not buying direct fit also means there is more welding and cutting to be done... which will cost labor and likely never be as a good of a fit as a direct fit part.
     
    #48 TridenT, Dec 21, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2012
  24. phucheneh

    phucheneh Diamond Member

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    Of course it won't fit like a factory part. But when a factory cat is a thousand bucks and a weld-in replacement is a couple hundred, it's not a hard decision. As long as the guy is a competent welder, it'll be fine. Exhaust doesn't have to be pretty to work.

    $500 is really not that bad. $400 is not super-expensive for the part, though I'm sure they're making markup. I wouldn't be surprised if the cat they're using costs them $200-250 or less.

    It's also not hard to weld in O2 sensor bungs. Not that you should really need them- the upstream sensor should be in or close to the manifold. The downstream is after the cat, usually far enough away to allow a new cat to be welded in without a need to change or remove it.

    If the exhaust is restricted to the point that the engine is dying, you really should not be driving it. An economy rental car is a hell of a lot cheaper than just about any engine repair. They're often available for like 10-20 bucks a day.
     
  25. TridenT

    TridenT Lifer

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    A bit shy of $500 later... my car seems to be working fine. The exhaust smells terrible though (New cat does that apparently).