Originally posted by: ProfJohn
senseamp: As far as I know there has been no push by Bush or other Republicans to BAN embryonic stem cell research, what they oppose is federal spending to support it. And they limit the number of lines being used.
Oblivionaire zinfamous can say anything he wants to say, but the FACTS are that there has not been ONE cure based on embryonic stem cell research, while there have been 72 based on adult stem cells, and this liver break through is based on cord blood stem cells, not embryonic HUGE difference.
Saying embryonic stem cells are the most promising is 'pie in the sky' mentality. Sure it looks like it might be good for a lot of things, then again we may never see any results from it.
All this hype around embryonic stem cell reminds me of the hoopla that surrounded 'cold fusion.' Cold fusion sure sounded like a great idea, tons of energy created in a safe efficient manor, but we may NEVER achieve cold fusion, just like we may NEVER see any worthwhile results from embryonic stem cells. All the promise in the world does not amount to anything if you can create any achievements worth talking about.
In what way does the administration's policy, and bill regarding ES cell research not equal a ban? As there are currently only 3 lines of any use available to researchers, and they will "expire" in about 3 years, and the admin has banned the creation of any new lines...the admin's knew very well that they were orchestrating a full-on ban on ES Cell research.
The little linky that you posted does not relate to the research that has and is going on. Yes, Adult stem cell work is much older than ES Cell research, and was at one point as theoretical and promising as ES Cell research. We have the potential to cure many types of cancer (Adult Stem cells can not do this--another problem with the linky you post is that the info is bogus--and is clearly organized to promote a general uninformed, and unintelligible bias), yet you would deny us that chance. You would have denied Pasteur from injecting his first rabies innoculation based on his lack of testing (hehe--actually, any sound, modern governing body would strip his funding in 2 seconds if he did that today...and they would be right to). You are the type that would have been just fine had the world remained flat, if the sun revovled aroudn the earth. If put on a sinking boat of 200 passengers, and one was given the option to sacrifice themselves in order to save the others, you would deny that option--because you were born short-sighted and just may die that way. It is clear no one will cure you of this, so I won't try.
All I can argue is that those who have no business interpreting the validity and use of scientific and medical research to keep out (This goes for all politicians--including Frist; who was a cardio-thoracic surgeon--not a PhD; and was not respected by his peers while at Vanderbilt b/c he is an idiot and a terrible surgeon; first-hand knowledge from asociates of mine who were unfortunate enough to work around him). Believe me; just as any researcher in the field knows without a doubt that Adult stem cells are well-past their usefullness (and uh...there is no proof of your 72 "cures" b/c none of this research amounts to a cure. treatments, yes...but please don't confuse the 2), they would also prefer to use Adult Stem cells. Why? ES cells are an absolute pain-in-the-ass to work with. Keeping those little bastards alive requires 50-60 hour work weeks of no sleep, and constant media changing. They are fragile, and easily contaminated. If there was no benefit to use them, then believe me, the majority of the medical research field (of which is involved in ES cell research), would drop it now. It would be a form of masochism no one should subject themselves to. The point is...nothing that you, and your ill-informed brethern can do will ever halt the progress of research. The fundies are clearly in the death throes of their backwards ideology. Pasteur did cure rabies, and medicine advances. You can't stop this from happening. I know you won't give up...I'm just suggesting you re-adress that energy of yours to a cause that you can prevent....such as the spread of ignorance and mis-information by a fascist government (you're knee-deep in it).
Also, I hope that whoever authorized your "professorship" revokes it. Or at least is studious enough to make you aware that a PhD in Philosophy or Business Management (...ugh, how can such a thing exist anyway..), in no way entitles you to hold a valid understanding of biological science. This is similar to those "physicists" who support ID...and are the only "scientists" that such supporters champion as legitimate basis for their cause. (I'm not saying that physicists aren't scientists...just these wackos, and that in general, physicists know sh1t about biology, and vice versa. It's sad, and I wish there were a bit more collaboration, but it is the state of things...)
Also, when you post a linky in support of your asinine arguments, be sure that the information therein is not duplicitous, and is not so clearly the product of an interest group. There is indeed plenty of work that has been done using Adult stem cells. But look at the dates on those references. Old news in our world. I'm familiar with several of those PI's referenced, and have read some of those articles including their other work; and none of them deny the superiority of ES cells in relation to their research. In fact, those very same articles included in your little reference chart point to the greater effectiveness of ES Cells in relation to their data. Of course, had you done your homework...you would have known this.
If i feel that it is truly necessary to waste any more time with you by sending you directly to some links containing real research that refute everything you say (by pulling from my database) then I will. You could do this yourself just as easliy as you have chosen to link one simple and mis-applied chart to back you up, but as for now...I am through with you.
EDIT: sorry for the edits. I have html and general formatting issues it seems. plus a typo or 3
Facebook
Twitter