Al-Queda is responsible for more attacks against US interests than any other terrorist group, from Somalia to the trade centers, twice, learn a little history. An imperial war, what a joke, is Afghanistan now part of the empire?
The only person who has been proven to be a liar so far is Saddam......
Yeah! This is no place to post your opinions! Keep 'em to yourself! Relax Kamazon...it does wonders. No big bad evil Bush is going to get you.
How about a little tolerance up in here!
KAMAZON
Golden Member
I'm not worried about Bush, more like Ashcrofts "Patriot Act 2". Regardless, everythign I have written in that paragraph is 100% true. Here, I'll post it again:
"Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle, Shulsky, and all these 'Straussian Chickenhawks' LIED to you to get a IMPERIAL WAR OF AGGRESSION, which is against the Nuremburg Laws, Geneva Conventions, US Constitution, and therefore, makes Cheney Impeachable. Regime change in Washington DC! Impeach the Liars! "
We are leading the fight to impeach cheney over intellegence fraud.
"Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle, Shulsky, and all these 'Straussian Chickenhawks' LIED to you to get a IMPERIAL WAR OF AGGRESSION, which is against the Nuremburg Laws, Geneva Conventions, US Constitution, and therefore, makes Cheney Impeachable. Regime change in Washington DC! Impeach the Liars! "
We are leading the fight to impeach cheney over intellegence fraud.
Sad some people are still upset that Bush won and Gore lost fair and square.
-------------------------------
Yup, 5 to 4
-------------------------------
Yup, 5 to 4
2004 needs a regime change, here in the US. Remember folks, the only thing that keeps Bush on the radar screen is war, he has no fiscal fudiciary responsibility, he has no environmental responsibility, he has no box t ostand on to prononce moral high ground on any issue other than the war he seems to be losing, the war against terrorism. We still don't have Saddam. We still don't have Osama. Ever wonder about that?
Watch them show up captured or dead just about the time the polls slip for Bush's re election.
Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you.
Watch them show up captured or dead just about the time the polls slip for Bush's re election.
Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you.
Can anyone take what comes out of this administration seriously anymore? The have the credibility of the Iraqi information minister now.
"We know that North Korea is the world's foremost proliferator of ballistic missile technology. Now they have stated that they may not only build but also sell nuclear weapons and materials," Rummy said.
Then stfu about Iran who isnt a Threat NOW and handle N.K.
I mean how ignorant can part of this adminstration be when a country says "we will test,use,and export" refering to their Nukes.
bah
Then stfu about Iran who isnt a Threat NOW and handle N.K.
I mean how ignorant can part of this adminstration be when a country says "we will test,use,and export" refering to their Nukes.
bah
The priorities of legitimate threats to the US are ridiculous. Iraq at this point shows no evidence of having been an imminent threat to us, despite what I believed going into the war. Now we are finding what other countries are legitimate threats and we've lost a lot of credibility to deal with them. If Iraq would've yielded something it would've built our credibility but everyday that credibility erodes and we are left with only one positive (albeit a good one in my opinion) the ouster of Hussein. But now we have a total clusterfvck on our hands in rebuilding a country that's gone from Total Waste to Total Chaos. I'm trying to find the good that can come out of this, because something good can come out of almost anything, but the positives are slowly being cancelled out. Iran, NK, Syria, are these all on the task list? I'm really starting to grow weary of this administrations lack of foresight. I'm glad I don't have Bush's job. No thank you. Its going to take a lot for Bush to win my vote back, I'm going to throw it out at some third party if the Dems don't come up with something better than what they've been tossing around. This is going to be the ugliest election yet.
For the right-wingers WMD's might not be all that important to you in this war, they weren't for me at first. But, regardless that is what the world stage needs and probably most swing voters in order to legitimize the actions against Iraq. The only conviction I have left for the fight is that we at least have an opportunity (if we take it) to build a better Iraq for the people there. My convictions will be complete crap if we don't take that opportunity. It won't be a walk in the park either. I'm not expecting a return-on-investment for another 10-15 years.
Its going to get harder and harder to act on legitimate world threats with multilateral backing after unilaterally chasing Hussein. We've pissed off a lot of people and its not going to be easy to woo them again against NK or Iran. Hopefully the legitimacy of those threats will be better analyzed and we will know if it appeals to our best interests better.
For the right-wingers WMD's might not be all that important to you in this war, they weren't for me at first. But, regardless that is what the world stage needs and probably most swing voters in order to legitimize the actions against Iraq. The only conviction I have left for the fight is that we at least have an opportunity (if we take it) to build a better Iraq for the people there. My convictions will be complete crap if we don't take that opportunity. It won't be a walk in the park either. I'm not expecting a return-on-investment for another 10-15 years.
Its going to get harder and harder to act on legitimate world threats with multilateral backing after unilaterally chasing Hussein. We've pissed off a lot of people and its not going to be easy to woo them again against NK or Iran. Hopefully the legitimacy of those threats will be better analyzed and we will know if it appeals to our best interests better.
Hi Moonbeam:
You pasted:
Memes.com: "Memes are Mind Viruses. One needs to be aware of the power, incestuous, and insidious nature of ideas, icons, concepts, and theory. There is a reason why, in mediaspeak, the format of broadcasting is called programming. We are entirely susceptible to the influence of others. We are community-dwellers and as such, we have a natural tendency to be part of a hive."
That is a good definition of "memes." I should define such an unused term before I build a whole thought on it.
However, I don't think all "memes" are bad. I think they are either divine or demonic. The problem comes from our own ignorance of where our thoughts really originate. In your own way, you have said this many times. That's why I've always appreciated your posts, even if you are a hopeless, left-wing, ranting lunatic
We think our thoughts are our own; I have a hunch that many of them are "introjects." They originate outside of the individual self but are perceived by that self as arising internally, especially when they so readily appeal to some seemingly unmet need within.
Some of these memes/introjects are benevolent, some are malevolent. An example of a benevolent meme might be found in ancient Greece and produced Socrates-Plato-Aristotle. In three generations, huge strides were made that benefited the entire world for ages to come.
"Memes" are nothing new. The Apostle Peter gives us a wonderful insight into the power of memes/introjects in Matthew 16. Jesus asked a very simple question: "Who do you say that I am?" Peter confessed that Jesus was the Christ.
Jesus then said (in paraphrase): "Peter, you are blessed. But don't think that you thought of this on your own. This idea did not originate in your mind. Its source is external and divine."
A few verses later, Jesus said, "Now don't be shocked by this: I am going to go up to Jerusalem and the leaders will kill me." Peter again spoke up and said, "Never! You are WRONG!"
And Jesus said (again in paraphrase): "Peter, you just became the mouthpiece of Satan. You think you are being motivated by compassion and a desire to protect me, but you need to understand that, just as the good thing you said before did not originate in you, so now this does not originate in you."
One meme was divine, the other was demonic. In both cases, Peter simply said what he thought were his own thoughts.
But what if memes have a life of their own? They are non-corporeal, so how do I discern whether something is truly orignating within me or whether I am being carried along by something else?
Memes are powerful things. We need to judge. Not judge people, but judge thoughts. We are obsessed with the corporeal, with biology, with evolution. Yet it is obvious to me that genes are not the real issue, memes are. They are far more powerful, they have (or take on) a life of their own, and they can do tremendous damage or bring tremendous blessing very quickly.
But is the idea divine or demonic? Both? How do we separate the two? It almost assuredly is never merely human.
You asked if my post was a condemnation or an accomodation. I hope it was neither one. I don't trust this entire idea of "Pax Americana." Then again, I don't see any current political process in the world that offers a better solution. Western Europe has no ability to lead. Solzhenyitsen (sp?) rightly foresaw the moral bankruptcy of the West even as he rebuked the even worse tyranny of the Soviet Union. Some see "Pax Americana" as imperialism.
The United States is not being an imperialist. But it is being globalist. "Pax Americana" seems led by a conviction that
1) religious pluralism
2) free markets, and
3) representative republics
are the most stable system that humanity has seen. It also seems (post 9/11) to hold the conviction that there are competing memes (such as radical Islamic fundamentalism) that will never rest until that above mentioned trinity is destroyed. For others see that trinity as this:
1) infidel apostasy
2) greedy, lustful, rampant consumerism
3) godless, corrupting, mob rule
"Pax Americana" sees that response and says, "If we don't prevail, the world will become hell."
Which "meme" is less "demonic"/more "divine." Or do we even have the integrity to hang on to something divine? Given this scenario (which I think Bush embraces to a large extent),I don't think Bush killed by fraud. I think he is quite sincere, at least as politicians go. He probably believed that Iraq was an imminent threat. So he said what he was going to do, and then he followed through and did it.
But Peter was completely sincere when he told Jesus that Jesus was wrong. Sincere, but manipulated by a "demonic" meme of which Peter was not consciously aware. Only the rebuke of Jesus brought Peter back to his senses.
It all seems so convoluted, but the road home is a simple first step: am I moving in a more divine or a more demonic direction? Am I willing to dare to make that value judgment?
You pasted:
Memes.com: "Memes are Mind Viruses. One needs to be aware of the power, incestuous, and insidious nature of ideas, icons, concepts, and theory. There is a reason why, in mediaspeak, the format of broadcasting is called programming. We are entirely susceptible to the influence of others. We are community-dwellers and as such, we have a natural tendency to be part of a hive."
That is a good definition of "memes." I should define such an unused term before I build a whole thought on it.
However, I don't think all "memes" are bad. I think they are either divine or demonic. The problem comes from our own ignorance of where our thoughts really originate. In your own way, you have said this many times. That's why I've always appreciated your posts, even if you are a hopeless, left-wing, ranting lunatic
We think our thoughts are our own; I have a hunch that many of them are "introjects." They originate outside of the individual self but are perceived by that self as arising internally, especially when they so readily appeal to some seemingly unmet need within.
Some of these memes/introjects are benevolent, some are malevolent. An example of a benevolent meme might be found in ancient Greece and produced Socrates-Plato-Aristotle. In three generations, huge strides were made that benefited the entire world for ages to come.
"Memes" are nothing new. The Apostle Peter gives us a wonderful insight into the power of memes/introjects in Matthew 16. Jesus asked a very simple question: "Who do you say that I am?" Peter confessed that Jesus was the Christ.
Jesus then said (in paraphrase): "Peter, you are blessed. But don't think that you thought of this on your own. This idea did not originate in your mind. Its source is external and divine."
A few verses later, Jesus said, "Now don't be shocked by this: I am going to go up to Jerusalem and the leaders will kill me." Peter again spoke up and said, "Never! You are WRONG!"
And Jesus said (again in paraphrase): "Peter, you just became the mouthpiece of Satan. You think you are being motivated by compassion and a desire to protect me, but you need to understand that, just as the good thing you said before did not originate in you, so now this does not originate in you."
One meme was divine, the other was demonic. In both cases, Peter simply said what he thought were his own thoughts.
But what if memes have a life of their own? They are non-corporeal, so how do I discern whether something is truly orignating within me or whether I am being carried along by something else?
Memes are powerful things. We need to judge. Not judge people, but judge thoughts. We are obsessed with the corporeal, with biology, with evolution. Yet it is obvious to me that genes are not the real issue, memes are. They are far more powerful, they have (or take on) a life of their own, and they can do tremendous damage or bring tremendous blessing very quickly.
But is the idea divine or demonic? Both? How do we separate the two? It almost assuredly is never merely human.
You asked if my post was a condemnation or an accomodation. I hope it was neither one. I don't trust this entire idea of "Pax Americana." Then again, I don't see any current political process in the world that offers a better solution. Western Europe has no ability to lead. Solzhenyitsen (sp?) rightly foresaw the moral bankruptcy of the West even as he rebuked the even worse tyranny of the Soviet Union. Some see "Pax Americana" as imperialism.
The United States is not being an imperialist. But it is being globalist. "Pax Americana" seems led by a conviction that
1) religious pluralism
2) free markets, and
3) representative republics
are the most stable system that humanity has seen. It also seems (post 9/11) to hold the conviction that there are competing memes (such as radical Islamic fundamentalism) that will never rest until that above mentioned trinity is destroyed. For others see that trinity as this:
1) infidel apostasy
2) greedy, lustful, rampant consumerism
3) godless, corrupting, mob rule
"Pax Americana" sees that response and says, "If we don't prevail, the world will become hell."
Which "meme" is less "demonic"/more "divine." Or do we even have the integrity to hang on to something divine? Given this scenario (which I think Bush embraces to a large extent),I don't think Bush killed by fraud. I think he is quite sincere, at least as politicians go. He probably believed that Iraq was an imminent threat. So he said what he was going to do, and then he followed through and did it.
But Peter was completely sincere when he told Jesus that Jesus was wrong. Sincere, but manipulated by a "demonic" meme of which Peter was not consciously aware. Only the rebuke of Jesus brought Peter back to his senses.
It all seems so convoluted, but the road home is a simple first step: am I moving in a more divine or a more demonic direction? Am I willing to dare to make that value judgment?
do some of you people even watch the news? Russia publicly stated they would begin selling them material to process. Their claim they "need" nuclear power is a joke, they have vast oil reserves and virtually untouched the worlds 2nd largest natural gas reserve, everyone internationally agrees they are building a nuke.
We will not move on Iran though, we will let the youth do it for us, and it will be within a couple of years. I have no probelm with a free Iran having nuclear capability, I do however have a problem with a "religous dictatorship" with such clear historical ties to anti-western terrorism having that technology. I just don't think they can hold on because of the internal pressure coupled with a free Iraq next door ( and the dissenters we are supporting, sending in, the tv and radio bropadcasts, etc, payback for the clerics you sent into Iraq, u r welcome).
I doubt Bush lost credibility, it's not like everyone did not know Saddam had them, the opposition was political and financial, not based at all on the evidence already known and not even denied, which UN security council member took Blair's challenge to publicly state before the war they believed none would be found?
We will not move on Iran though, we will let the youth do it for us, and it will be within a couple of years. I have no probelm with a free Iran having nuclear capability, I do however have a problem with a "religous dictatorship" with such clear historical ties to anti-western terrorism having that technology. I just don't think they can hold on because of the internal pressure coupled with a free Iraq next door ( and the dissenters we are supporting, sending in, the tv and radio bropadcasts, etc, payback for the clerics you sent into Iraq, u r welcome).
I doubt Bush lost credibility, it's not like everyone did not know Saddam had them, the opposition was political and financial, not based at all on the evidence already known and not even denied, which UN security council member took Blair's challenge to publicly state before the war they believed none would be found?
Koni I have a question for you, since you are always talkng about Bush, you should be able to answer this. He just signed legislation into effect that makes it easier for generic drug makers to get patent access and production rights which is going to reduce costs for consumers for many common medications.
For all the talk about OIL and his "career" in the field, the Bush family money is from pharmaceuticals. Papa Bush gave them great tax shelters, they now operate out of Puerto Rico with little intervention or regulation, slave labor wages etc..
I was personally shocked he signed that, I even did a little research to see if their money was in the generic firms now, looks like this was a campaign promise made and kept, to try and help reduce prescription drug costs.
I can honestly say I did not like Bush as a candidate and I will never approve of the way he was given power, nor the actions of either party or the supreme court in that matter. I do not agree with the GOP's fiscal policy, but don't blame him personally for that either. Overall I have been impressed with the way he has handled his power and led this country. He has exceeded all the expectations I ever had for him, however low they may have been. If all that comes of his term is a free and functioning Iraq and a peacefull co-existing Palestine and Israel it was worth the short term damage his party's policies may have inflicted on the average american.
For all the talk about OIL and his "career" in the field, the Bush family money is from pharmaceuticals. Papa Bush gave them great tax shelters, they now operate out of Puerto Rico with little intervention or regulation, slave labor wages etc..
I was personally shocked he signed that, I even did a little research to see if their money was in the generic firms now, looks like this was a campaign promise made and kept, to try and help reduce prescription drug costs.
I can honestly say I did not like Bush as a candidate and I will never approve of the way he was given power, nor the actions of either party or the supreme court in that matter. I do not agree with the GOP's fiscal policy, but don't blame him personally for that either. Overall I have been impressed with the way he has handled his power and led this country. He has exceeded all the expectations I ever had for him, however low they may have been. If all that comes of his term is a free and functioning Iraq and a peacefull co-existing Palestine and Israel it was worth the short term damage his party's policies may have inflicted on the average american.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 24K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter