[Rumor, Tweaktown] AMD to launch next-gen Navi graphics cards at E3

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lifeblood

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Oct 17, 2001
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Blindsided is perhaps too strong a word for it. We’ve all known for some time that Real Time Ray Tracing (RTRT) was going to be coming at some point, we just didn’t know when. At some point Nvidia said “we will include RTRT with this release. Engineers, make it so.” When did AMD know about it? Obviously Nvidia didn’t call them on the phone and tell them. AMD would have learned through papers published by Nvidia engineers discussing RTRT, from rumors, etc. How long after Nvidia got serious did AMD get serious? 3 month? 6 months? A year? 3 months is meaningless but a year late is a problem, especially when you’re barely keeping your head above water financially. Obviously AMD knew at least 2 years ago or they wouldn’t have test hardware out right now, but that doesn’t mean it’s a mature design.

Of course, it may be AMD made the first move and said “we will include RTRT with this release. Engineers, make it so” before Nvidia did. Nvidia may have then had to play catch up. But given how much deeper Nvidias pockets are, they were able to catch up and pass AMD.

I doubt we will ever know the full story. Obviously something went wrong with AMD. When was the first RTX card released? September 2018? That was 15 months ago. Where is AMD’s equivalent? To be honest it’s probably more merciful to say AMD was blindsided. That can be forgiven. Anything else starts to smell like incompetence.

Having said that I must also say that maybe AMD was contractually prevented from releasing RTRT earlier so as not to steal the consoles thunder. Again, we don’t know.
 
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sontin

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2011
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Did I not already address how it is physically impossible for AMD to both simultaneously be blindsided by RTRT whilst also releasing their own solution a mere 2 years after Nvidia released theirs?

How many times will this be brought up by people with a complete and utter lack of understanding of how long in advance roadmaps are set and how long it takes to work on something like this?

If even Nvidia had to create a solution from scratch now, with a 2 year time limit, they would be fully incapable of doing so. I don't even need to bother discussing AMD being capable of doing it.

Also, speaking of late, where's Turing+1? Not anywhere on it's way to consumers :)

You know that AMD needed 7 years to catch up with nVidia in Tessellation workload? It is easy to put something into a work in progress design. It is another task to do it right. AMD had around 18 months from knowledge of DXR to the tape out of RDNA2. This is enough time to validate and make the first steps to implement hardware RT support. At the same time Navi as an architecture never intended for raytracing workload - like everything from Cypress till Polaris/Vega for Tesselation.

Navi is a straight rasterizing architecture. It was specific designed to do this right. And yet Navi is barely faster than a GTX1080 with 40% more transistors and 28% higher power consumption.
 

lobz

Platinum Member
Feb 10, 2017
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I doubt we will ever know the full story. Obviously something went wrong with AMD. When was the first RTX card released? September 2018? That was 15 months ago. Where is AMD’s equivalent? To be honest it’s probably more merciful to say AMD was blindsided. That can be forgiven. Anything else starts to smell like incompetence.
Where is it? It is in the next-gen consoles, and it was already decided and planned for the next-gen consoles when the first RTX card has been released. Saving themselves the utter irrelevance RTX is enjoying before the games are ready (hint: they will come to the next-gen consoles), is everything but incompetence. Would you please stop posting this hyperbolic nonsense?
 
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maddie

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Jul 18, 2010
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Did I not already address how it is physically impossible for AMD to both simultaneously be blindsided by RTRT whilst also releasing their own solution a mere 2 years after Nvidia released theirs?

How many times will this be brought up by people with a complete and utter lack of understanding of how long in advance roadmaps are set and how long it takes to work on something like this?

If even Nvidia had to create a solution from scratch now, with a 2 year time limit, they would be fully incapable of doing so. I don't even need to bother discussing AMD being capable of doing it.

Also, speaking of late, where's Turing+1? Not anywhere on it's way to consumers :)
Don't you realize these posters are huge AMD supporters.

It took Nvidia 8+ years of effort to develop & release RTX (Jensun's own words), and here we have AMD doing the same in 2 years after being blindsided by Green team. Wow, what an effort.
 

lobz

Platinum Member
Feb 10, 2017
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AMD had around 18 months from knowledge of DXR to the tape out of RDNA2. This is enough time to validate and make the first steps to implement hardware RT support. At the same time Navi as an architecture never intended for raytracing workload - like everything from Cypress till Polaris/Vega for Tesselation.
OK now I understand. CES is today, the official troll season of the year has just begun. I forgot.
 
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AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
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Navi is a straight rasterizing architecture. It was specific designed to do this right. And yet Navi is barely faster than a GTX1080 with 40% more transistors and 28% higher power consumption.

1. RX5700XT is 20% faster than GTX1080, that is hardly called barely faster. Not to mention that DX-12 gaming performance is more than 20% faster.
2. NAVI 10 has huge compute performance vs Pascal GP104 (GTX1080), 19.5 TFlops vs 139 Gflops in FP16 and 609.6 Gflops vs 277,3 Gflops in FP64. All those needs transistors that GP104 just skipped because it was just Gaming oriented.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
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There is no coincidence, that on the day, of AMD's CES keynoe, there is forum FUD, from Nvidia supporters ;)
 
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lifeblood

Senior member
Oct 17, 2001
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Where is it? It is in the next-gen consoles, and it was already decided and planned for the next-gen consoles when the first RTX card has been released. Saving themselves the utter irrelevance RTX is enjoying before the games are ready (hint: they will come to the next-gen consoles), is everything but incompetence. Would you please stop posting this hyperbolic nonsense?
Please note how much Nvidia makes from selling GPU's and how much AMD makes. Their is nothing hyperbolic about it. Also, 15 months (and counting) and AMD still has no response to RTX that can be purchased. Their is nothing hyperbolic about that either. And those two items are related.

I hate to say it but it doesn't really matter when or even if the games are ready. Nvidia outsells AMD by some ridiculous percentage. RTX is a feature that excites people and people use it as an excuse to buy Nvidia regardless how well games actually implement it. Nvidia also enjoys the halo effect. The Halo effect is totally stupid unless your buying that top end card. Why do I care how awesome a 2080 Ti is when I'm buying a mid-range card? It doesn't, but people will still use that as an excuse. That's why AMD is working on a "2080 killer", to be able to compete , to be a contender rather than an also-ran.

Nvidia is running circles around AMD and as a company AMD can't continue to let that happen for too long or it risks fading into obscurity as so many companies before it have. AMD has just barely managed to save itself from bankruptcy (and absolute kudos to AMD for pulling it off). They may not be so lucky next time.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
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I doubt we will ever know the full story. Obviously something went wrong with AMD. When was the first RTX card released? September 2018? That was 15 months ago. Where is AMD’s equivalent? To be honest it’s probably more merciful to say AMD was blindsided. That can be forgiven. Anything else starts to smell like incompetence.

Do you remember this ??

https%3A%2F%2Fblogs-images.forbes.com%2Fmarcochiappetta%2Ffiles%2F2018%2F08%2Frtx-games.jpg.jpg


This is now after those 15 months,

RTX-games-coming-soon.png
 

lifeblood

Senior member
Oct 17, 2001
999
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Do you remember this ??
<snip>
This is now after those 15 months,
<snip>
Yes I do remember it and I find it funny. Do you remember this?
I hate to say it but it doesn't really matter when or even if the games are ready. Nvidia outsells AMD by some ridiculous percentage. RTX is a feature that excites people and people use it as an excuse to buy Nvidia regardless how well games actually implement it.
Their is a lot of truth behind your joke, but some games do implement it in a way that has an effect and that's enough for people. Nvidias sales numbers vs AMDs are the proof.
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
14,000
3,357
136
Yes I do remember it and I find it funny. Do you remember this?

Their is a lot of truth behind your joke, but some games do implement it in a way that has an effect and that's enough for people. Nvidias sales numbers vs AMDs are the proof.

NVIDIA sales were higher than AMDs even before RTX cards launched. This doesnt prove anything of what you are implying.
Also, AMDs sales were higher in Q3 2019 vs Q3 2018 without a single RT GPU, so do we conclude that this is because people doesnt care about RT ???
 

lobz

Platinum Member
Feb 10, 2017
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Yes I do remember it and I find it funny. Do you remember this?

Their is a lot of truth behind your joke, but some games do implement it in a way that has an effect and that's enough for people. Nvidias sales numbers vs AMDs are the proof.
Another word twisting grunt ignored, the list just goes on and on.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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NVIDIA sales were higher than AMDs even before RTX cards launched. This doesnt prove anything of what you are implying.
Also, AMDs sales were higher in Q3 2019 vs Q3 2018 without a single RT GPU, so do we conclude that this is because people doesnt care about RT ???

Yeah, AMD's share of the market grew over the period it was/has been selling new products against RTX (meaning, they took market share from NVidia). ...hardly an argument that RTX is the reason people flocked to NVidia over AMD, lol.
 
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lifeblood

Senior member
Oct 17, 2001
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Yeah, AMD's share of the market grew over the period it was/has been selling new products against RTX (meaning, they took market share from NVidia). ...hardly an argument that RTX is the reason people flocked to NVidia over AMD, lol.
Q3 2019 was around when AMD released RX 5700, a new card with a new architecture. That generates interest and a sales bump. And I'm not talking so much about quarter to quarter but total sales AMD vs Nvidia for the past few years.

We're going badly off topic here so I'll just say, imho AMD needs to stop responding to Nvidia 15 months late and start putting new stuff on the table before Nvidia does.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,229
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For a GPU that has 90-95% of RTX 2060 performance, and is 15-20% faster than GTX 1660 Ti? It would have to be cheaper than GTX 1660 Ti to be good value?
Well, there are "those folks", that always believe that AMD "has to be" the "value solution", and don't ever see AMD as a competitor on their own merits (and thus worth the price that they charge for their cards).

Honestly, while not ideal, I think $279 is fair, and if they only charged $249, that would become "the card to get", in that price-range, and AMD couldn't supply enough of them, causing prices to rise at online retailers anyways. Who would buy 1660/1660S/1660Ti if RX 5600XT was only $249, and had most of the CU capability of Navi 10. (These are based on cut-down Navi10 dies, with less memory / memory bandwidth, right?)
 

Head1985

Golden Member
Jul 8, 2014
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For a GPU that has 90-95% of RTX 2060 performance, and is 15-20% faster than GTX 1660 Ti? It would have to be cheaper than GTX 1660 Ti to be good value?
Depends on games.From CES stream in some games 15% and in other almost same perf and thats AMD marketing results.
Also its 1 year late.
 
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