- Mar 13, 2006
- 10,140
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Rumor - Puma to be hot, slow.
- Thread starter Phynaz
- Start date
K8 derivative (can we call this K9)? Check.
65nm process? Check.
Uses more power and produces more heat? Check.
Where's the surprise here then?
Man, I take everything I said about Hector back. The guy is a freaking genius. ATI platform is the only reason AMD will be able to sell ANY mobile CPUs. Taking a page out of nvidia's book and having marketing spin up a 'balanced' platform story is laughable. Laptop owners want the longest battery life, lowest price or highest performance. It's sometimes possible to get 2 out of 3. Mediocre performance combined with poor battery life won't be enough to move a lot of units, which leaves only one way out -- lowest price.
Course, AMD is selling for less now than what was paid for ATI (3.6B market cap vs 5.4B). NV can now buy a controlling interest with cash on hand (not that they could or would).
65nm process? Check.
Uses more power and produces more heat? Check.
Where's the surprise here then?
Man, I take everything I said about Hector back. The guy is a freaking genius. ATI platform is the only reason AMD will be able to sell ANY mobile CPUs. Taking a page out of nvidia's book and having marketing spin up a 'balanced' platform story is laughable. Laptop owners want the longest battery life, lowest price or highest performance. It's sometimes possible to get 2 out of 3. Mediocre performance combined with poor battery life won't be enough to move a lot of units, which leaves only one way out -- lowest price.
Course, AMD is selling for less now than what was paid for ATI (3.6B market cap vs 5.4B). NV can now buy a controlling interest with cash on hand (not that they could or would).
taltamir
Lifer
- Mar 21, 2004
- 13,576
- 6
- 76
if nvidia buys it, it wouldn't magically get better overnight, nvidia will be fighting a loosing battle and shooting itself in the foot. Right now nvidia is trying to get the physx API to become the defacto standard and replace the CPU as the physics processing unit. I think they can do it.
AMD/ATi has nothing to give to Nvidia that Nvidia needs or wants and cannot get from Via at this juncture.
If I had to choose, I'd still take an AMD Puma based laptop with AMD 780G graphics over any laptop with Intel powered graphics coupled with an Intel processor. Unfortunately for AMD most laptop users don't care much for graphical horsepower, but for battery life and mobility. And anyone who would buy a laptop to game with isn't looking at any integrated graphics anyway.
This & the "Phenom incompatible with 780G" FUD in one day? You must really be looking for anything anti-AMD.
Puma will be a great platform and with AMD's integrated graphics it will be superior to Intel's platform in most things. In terms of pure processor performance Intel will maintain the lead of course, but that is to be expected.
If it's to power hungry though, it won't be. Also, I don't think the G45 will be as good as the 780G but it should atleast put Intel closer, then team up faster more effiecent platform, going to be really hard to justify a amd laptop purchase.
bryanW1995
Lifer
- May 22, 2007
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agreed. However, I just got an inspiron 1521 with an amd Turion 64 X2 TL-56 b/c it's price/performance was better than the comparable intel celeron 550. funny thing is, the tdp of the t2370 (which is the next step up for the intel-based system) is 35w vs the 31w of the TL-56. the celeron m 550 is 30w... definitely worth the nearly identical tdp for a dual core imho. The real question is going to be if intel will get "close enough" to take away amd's last stronghold. My guess is yes.
Originally posted by: aigomorla
AMD fabs dont count?
My thoughts exactly...nVidia + AMD would actually be something, VIA is nothing in comparison...if nVidia suddenly acquired a legitimate foothold in the CPU market, all bets would be off.
nVidia already commands just enough leverage with SLI to keep pushing their motherboard chipsets for both AMD and Intel, if nVidia and AMD suddenly were one, nVidia would finally have the leverage to completely give Intel the finger and start making SLI/Crossfire exclusive to what would then be their own CPUs...it would no longer matter that Intel had technically better gaming CPUs and chipsets (well, better for just about anything), the best gaming systems would be nVidia/AMD because the flagships would be exclusive to them with their multi GPU systems.
Gamers wouldn't care that Intel offers the marginally better CPU, they'd go with a slightly downgraded CPU that still offers excellent performance if it meant they'd get the better/best overall gaming system.
Of course its not going to happen so whatever
Interesting...a piece by Theo Valich I see.
But I thought you said:
"Theo Valich is a clown. He should be ignored"
I think I'll agree with you and ignore this one too...
It does appear to be a new vein of desperation (especially considering he's actually quoting Theo Valich as a qualified source!)
bryanW1995
Lifer
- May 22, 2007
- 11,144
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Originally posted by: bryanW1995
isn't theo an inq alum?
it's good to see that tom's has upgraded
LOL...good point.
Yes he is, and his total lack of credibility was the one and only thing Phynaz and I ever agreed one...sigh...
Cookie Monster
Diamond Member
- May 7, 2005
- 5,161
- 32
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Well id wait for the actual reviews to see which has the better battery life. However if they are close with each other in that department, then id go with the AMD platform.
Unless intel can prove that their IGPs both mobile and desktop can actually do something either than provide basic chipset functionality i dont see how one can buy that crap (when the competitions provide much more for the same price) even if it supports an intel processor which are great.
edit - AMD: 100 Laptop Designs Being Readied for Puma
Unless intel can prove that their IGPs both mobile and desktop can actually do something either than provide basic chipset functionality i dont see how one can buy that crap (when the competitions provide much more for the same price) even if it supports an intel processor which are great.
edit - AMD: 100 Laptop Designs Being Readied for Puma
Originally posted by: aigomorla
AMD fabs dont count?
Originally posted by: Viditor
You mean like Fabs and a 45nm process?
AMD's fabs are an asset...provided you don't already have a successful business model based on being fabless. Nvidia has done what Qualcomm has done, they both figured out how to be ridiculously successful in their markets while decoupling their technology offering from the process technology.
Texas Instruments is taking all the steps needed to venture down this path. (TI will be fabless for digital CMOS for 45nm and beyond, will keep fabs for analog production though)
SUN Microsystems has already done so as well (TI was the foundry, now TSMC will founder 45nm and beyond).
So here's the deal, from my experience, with TSMC taking on the SUN account this will force a foundry (finally) to actually step up to the true high-performance CMOS process technology platform. What do I mean by this? TSMC's 65nm "performance" node for example is not capable of creating high enough performing parts (as in clockspeed vs power consumption) to be of any use to SUN (or TI), thus TI only uses the foundries at 65nm for the low-power mobile stuff.
But with TSMC agreeing to produce (i.e. invest $$$ and create a node capable of doing it) high-performance MPU's for SUN...this means the world is finally going to have access to a leading-edge foundry process which will truly be high-performance competitive. (on a lagging timeline though as these things take a while to get started initially)
Prior to TSMC announcing their committment to produce high-performance nodes for SUN I would have agreed with all of you above...that if Nvidia wants into the CPUGPU market with leading edge process technology then they need AMD's fab (and so too does AMD and IBM)...but in about 15 months Nvidia isn't going to need AMD's fabs for this reason anymore (and if you can't read between the lines, neither will AMD in a matter of time).
What Nvidia needs today of they wanted into CPU market is an x86 license and access to a fab that can produce competitive speedbin/TDP parts...only option is AMD today but in a little more than a year's time Via (not buy them, go under contract to develop chips for them in exchange for residuals on each sale) and TSMC (as the foundry) will be the options. No debt, no loss of corporate identity, no inheriting of a Ruiz legacy, etc.
- Mar 13, 2006
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Where did I ever say he was a qualified source?
The very first word in my post is "Rumor".
And my link says "for what it's worth".
At no point did I say any of this is fact. I didn't even say it was my opinion.
Nice attempt at trying to discredit me, but I'm afriad you have failed.
Folks, let's please agree to discuss/attack/discredit the "topic" and not the poster.
AMD's execution (be it managing their technology execution or their PR spin execution) is the issue here, not the poster who is noting where the execution is "lacking robustness".
If the stuff Phynaz is finding on the interweb is FUD then lets discuss it and the discourse will bear this out. I may disagree with the contents of the articles that Phynaz is linking to but I am thankful he is pointing out that this crap is out there and being discussed all over the tech web forums right now. I'd rather not be ignorant of the topic's existance even if it is wrong, it is educational to watch Theo spin his web.
And let's not forget sometimes the seemingly obvious FUD can turn out to be true (AMD layoff's anyone?)...
So I am just asking nicely, please lets agree to discuss how silly or ridiculous the article's contents are (or their author) and leave the personal attacks for the PM's.
AMD's execution (be it managing their technology execution or their PR spin execution) is the issue here, not the poster who is noting where the execution is "lacking robustness".
If the stuff Phynaz is finding on the interweb is FUD then lets discuss it and the discourse will bear this out. I may disagree with the contents of the articles that Phynaz is linking to but I am thankful he is pointing out that this crap is out there and being discussed all over the tech web forums right now. I'd rather not be ignorant of the topic's existance even if it is wrong, it is educational to watch Theo spin his web.
And let's not forget sometimes the seemingly obvious FUD can turn out to be true (AMD layoff's anyone?)...
So I am just asking nicely, please lets agree to discuss how silly or ridiculous the article's contents are (or their author) and leave the personal attacks for the PM's.
Wait are they literally saying games run in slow mo on Intel platforms and AMD platforms are fast paced? I've NEVER seen a comparrison like that before. The two Intel platforms weren't even getting chopiness like it had really bad frames they were literally running in slow motion.... To me that looks setup to make the AMD rig look better. Even if the other two machines were getting 10 and 20 fps respectively running a benchmark they should still all end at the same time cause the FPS is just what you see now what the game is doing...? I'm confused that looked ridiculous.
myocardia
Diamond Member
- Jun 21, 2003
- 9,291
- 30
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Well, there are two different ways to benchmark a game, assuming you know how to write code. You can run the benchmark for a certain amount of time, like the benchmarks we use, then display the FPS at the end, or you can have a finite amount of total frames, and make the system display every frame, making the slowest system take longer, like what was done in that video.
Of course, that benchmark had absolutely nothing to do with CPU power. That was a comparison of the GPU power of those laptops. That's why they used laptops, instead of desktops. If all three systems had had an 8800 Ultra or 3870X2, the two Intel machines would have finshed slightly faster.
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