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Question Rumor: [MLID] Navi 24 / 120W TDP / 16MB IC

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
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Absolutely not. He said that 3050 Ti, but it would be based on 107 die. And we know Nvidia readies 3050 Ti based on 106 die.

People confuse Navi 24 with cut down Navi 23, IMO.

There is literally zero possibility that 1024 ALUs/64 bit and 16 MB cache, even clocked at 2.8 GHz could compete with RTX 3050 Ti that has, according to Kopite: 3072 CUDA cores and 1536 ALUs on a 192 bit bus with 6/12 GB VRAM.

If any GPU beats RTX 3050 Ti, at 120W, it has to be cut down Navi 23 with 1536 ALUs, 2.4 GHz game clock, 96 bit bus, and 6 GB VRAM.

There is nothing else, left in possibilities, apart from one: the rumor is completely wrong.

However, considering the specs that Nvidia decided to bring, according to rumors, 3050 Ti to desktop, I don't see that possible.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
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There is literally zero possibility that 1024 ALUs/64 bit and 16 MB cache, even clocked at 2.8 GHz could compete with RTX 3050 Ti that has, according to Kopite: 3072 CUDA cores and 1536 ALUs on a 192 bit bus with 6/12 GB VRAM.

If any GPU beats RTX 3050 Ti, at 120W, it has to be cut down Navi 23 with 1536 ALUs, 2.4 GHz game clock, 96 bit bus, and 6 GB VRAM.
I disagree slightly, the 6600(XT) punches way above it'ss 128-bit memory-bus weight class, due to the inclusion of 32MB of Infinity Cache, and they perform in the same class as Navi10 with 192-bit bus, as well as NV 30-series with 192-bit bus.

I think that it has a fighting chance, depending on how high it's clocked.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
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I disagree slightly, the 6600(XT) punches way above it'ss 128-bit memory-bus weight class, due to the inclusion of 32MB of Infinity Cache, and they perform in the same class as Navi10 with 192-bit bus, as well as NV 30-series with 192-bit bus.

I think that it has a fighting chance, depending on how high it's clocked.
The VRAM capacity itself is not enough. Its REALLY hard to make GTX 1660 performance competitor into RTX 2060 - RX 5600 XT performance class, just by increasing the clocks, without increasing memory bandwidth.

IF RTX 3050 Ti would be based on 107 - it actually might have a shot at that GPU. But, RTX 3050 Ti appears to be based on 106 die.

3050 Ti laptop based on 107 die specs: 1280ALUs/2560 CUDA cores, 128 bit bus with 256 GB/s memory bandwidth.
Desktop 3050 Ti based on rumored 106 die: 1536 ALUs/3072 CUDA cores, 192 bit bus with at least 336 GB/s - more likely 384 GB/s.

That is HUGE difference in memory bandwidth alone, and will not be limited to 4 GB's of VRAM.

N24 was supposed to be sub 75W GPU. And now suddenly they would rework the whole power delivery to fit in 120W thermal envelope? Thats 45W more, 60% more.

And lastly. Navi 23 based RX 6600 XT - 160W TDP, Navi 23 based RX 6600 - 132W TDP. I think its pretty clear that if RTX 3050 Ti competitor comes in Q1, at 120W TDP and beats this GPU I really don't see a possibility why RX 6500 XT would not be based on Navi 23 and have 1536 ALUs and 96 bit bus.

There is way too much aligning with this idea, based on rumors.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
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N24 was supposed to be sub 75W GPU. And now suddenly they would rework the whole power delivery to fit in 120W thermal envelope? Thats 45W more, 60% more.
That struck me as somewhat strange, as well. Although, AMD may have produced a large enough qty of Navi23 dies that didn't meet the binning or power consumption restrictions for making the cut as a notebook GPU, so they slightly overengineered a desktop GPU to use those dies.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
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Of course, all it really has to do is match or beat a 1060 6GB and actually be in-stock for under $250.

All the rest is gravy.
True that. Although, if AMD could pull off a Navi23 card that fit into the 75W slot-power envelope, and performed either on par with GTX 1650 at a lower price, or a higher performance, then they would find a ready market I think.
 
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Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
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Of course, all it really has to do is match or beat a 1060 6GB and actually be in-stock for under $250.

All the rest is gravy.
Both: DG2 and Navi 24 will beat handily GTX 1060.

However, rumor says that Navi 24 beats RTX 3050 Ti desktop. With 192 bit bus, and 3072 CUDA cores, RTX 3050 Ti will compete in performance not with GTX 1060, but with... RTX 2060/RX 5600 XT.

THAT is why the rumor that RTX 3050 Ti competitor beating it, at 120W has absolutely no sense, whatsoever.

Either this GPU is based on cut down Navi 23, or Navi 24 GPU indeed has 1536 ALUs, 96 bit bus, and 16 MB Infinity cache. There are no other options.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
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He even specifically responded to my post in his video.

1) He got his info from mobile OEMs which claim that Mobile Navi 24 will be faster than mobile RTX 3050 Ti is.

2) He has info that Navi 24 comes to desktop and stonks 3050 Ti at 120W TDP.

3) VideoCardz and Kopite7Kimi say that 3050 on desktop is based on 106 die, with 3072 CUDA cores and 128 bit bus with 8 GB VRAM.

The problem is this he constantly confuses desktop with mobile and its because of TechPowerUp database.

In TPU database GA107, on which mobile is 3050 series is based, is placed at 3072 CUDA cores and 128 bit bus, which is completely incorrect.

Full die of GA107: 1280 ALUs/2560 CUDA cores and 128 bit bus, with 32 ROPs. Mobile RTX 3050 Ti - 1280 ALUs/128 bit bus, mobile RTX 3050 - 1024 ALUs/128 bit bus.

Desktop RTX 3050 according to VCZ and Kopite: GA106 die, 3072 CUDA cores/1536 ALUs and 128 bit bus with 8 GB VRAM.

Yes, mobile RTX 3050 Ti is just below GTX 1660 Ti in performance, mainly because it has 4 GB VRAM, but with 6 or 8 GB VRAM, like desktop model, would get, the GPU should be around GTX 1660 Ti, already. Nvidia always makes their product placement so that current generation 50 Ti, which usually is based on 107 die, is around 60 SKU of last generation that is based on 106 or 116 die, in this particular case.

What he doesn't get, secondly is that in no way 1024 RDNA2 ALUs, and 64 bit bus, with 16 MB IC is going to even touch 1536 ALUs/128 bit bus from Ampere, not even with 2.5 GHz game clock, and 2.8 GHz boost clock. We are talking about at least 20% more performance from 3050 that is based on 106 die. Navi 24 may be around RX 5500 XT 4 GB up to GTX 1660 GDDR5 in performance, but that is it. RTX 3050 on the other hand - it will be around RTX 2060 6 GB.

Its hard to imagine that AMD would rework whole design and power delivery for Navi 24 to make a 95W TDP GPU a 120 W TDP GPU to compete with basically an RTX 2060. Why did I talked about people confusing Navi 24 with Navi 23?

RX 6600 is 132W in power draw. RTX 3060 has 3840 CUDA cores/1792 ALUs with 192 bit bus. Is it really that difficult to see that direct competitor for 3072 CUDA core/128 Bit is a 1536 ALU/96-128 bit bus Navi 23 cut down GPU with 120W's of power, that ACTUALLY CAN compete with "basically" a RTX 2060 6 GB?

And lastly. RTX 3050 is not a competitor for ARC A380, nor for RX 6500 XT, that is based on Navi 24. Hoo no. 3050, based on 106 die, with 3072 CUDA cores is a competitor for Intel ARC A5XX series, with 256 or 192 EUs. Is a completely different performance category compared to 128 EU DG2 and Navi 24.

P.S. This is not an attack on him ;).
 

Ranulf

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2001
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Yeah, when I heard that bit about competing but with a 64bit bus I had a good chuckle. Many doubts on that one. Who knows anymore though. I can't take this stuff too seriously these days until reviews are out and product is on the shelves with user reviews on top of it.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's right on Nvidia putting out the 2060 12GB cards mostly for miners.
 

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