Rumor: Microsoft to relaunch PC gaming with Windows 8

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HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
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They said the exact same things before Vista came out. They advertised how Vista was to revolutinize Pc gaming with DX10, Games for WIndows standards...etc.
kinda naive to think W8 itself is going to change anything. they just want to pump up the games marketplace is all.
An OS release cannot do anything for PC gaming other than offer yet another DX when 2 preivous are barely alive and maybe offer a Launcher more glamorized than
games explorer.

Sales for smaller devices are ever increasing as desktops get far less shelf space at most every store. The only thing i see growing are "indie" games while the runoff console ports stays static enough to not even push my gtx280 muchless a gtx580. Hardware is barely worth upgrading anymore, at least until they start pushing out some real dx11 titles that use full tesselated enviros, sm5.0..etc. ..and thats not happening anytime soon it appears.
 
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Sureshot324

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2003
3,370
0
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They're not trying to 'relaunch' PC gaming, they're trying to keep it off other operating systems. PC Gaming is one of the major reasons people use Windows instead of other OSes. But now that Steam and the Source Engine are out on Mac and probably will be out on Linux soon, that could all change. MS knows it, and are looking for ways to keep gamers on Windows.

One way they're trying to do this is integrate their huge Xbox Live community with the PC. If the only way people can access their Windows/Xbox Live friends list is on Windows, they won't be so inclined to go Mac/Linux. If they can make Windows vs Xbox cross platform gaming take off, this will be even more true. It won't work for FPSes (the whole controller vs mouse keyboard thing) but it could definitely work for a lot of other games (fighting, racing, any Kinect game if they bring it to PC). Oh, and it would help of the Windows Live UI didn't suck so bad.
 

P4man

Senior member
Aug 27, 2010
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Here is an interesting chart:

gamnewzoochart530.jpg


http://hackmywii.net/consumer-spending-on-video-games-reached-25-billion-this-year

Looks like PC gaming is less dead than I actually thought, and surprisingly, its mostly consoles that are losing to the new gaming markets of mobile, casual and social networking gaming.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,408
9,300
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Have you heard of little company called id Software. They use OpenGl. Doom 3 was the best looking game of it's time. The upcoming Rage will ne using the id Tech 5 engine which is looking good so far.

Have you heard of John Carmack? Some even consider him the best game engine designer in computer history, and he doesn't use DirectX.


And how many decent games have iD released recently, hell how many decent OpenGl games have been released recently?

Theres a reason no one uses OpenGl on the PC any more.

You can blame MS for "The Death of PC Gaming" but I dont see any one else making any efforts to help. I'm hardly going to use OSX or Linux to game on. I'd guess that without MS support the gaming on Windows would be equal to the gaming on the 2 others and we'd all have to use consoles.
 
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Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
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And how many decent games have iD released recently, hell how many decent OpenGl games have been released recently?

Theres a reason no one uses OpenGl on the PC any more.

You can blame MS for "The Death of PC Gaming" but I dont see any one else making any efforts to help. I'm hardly going to use OSX or Linux to game on. I'd guess that without MS support the gaming on Windows would be equal to the gaming on the 2 others and we'd all have to use consoles.


ID is all about buildning a new enigne.,show it off in a game..and the make money on games licensing their engine...I thought that was common knowlegde?
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,408
9,300
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ID is all about buildning a new enigne.,show it off in a game..and the make money on games licensing their engine...I thought that was common knowlegde?


Indeed.

How many games use their latest engine now? And when did it come out?
 

Martimus

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2007
4,488
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The point we're trying to make is that when you develop a cross platform game, you have to cater to the lowest common denominator. Both for the hardware and for your customer base. Since the consoles are less powerful than the PCs, this means features and details have to be stripped from the game in order to get them to run on the lesser console. This degrades the PC experience where much of its potential is simply wasted. There's also that the console player usually wants a less detailed game, something they can jump into and play without a learning curve, or reading any dialog/backstory, something more simple.

This doesn't mean that a cross platform game is bad, but if you take a 360 game and release it on the PC without so much as changing the default button mappings, then thats a major fail.

Here's whats been happening in a nutshell. The game sells poorly because PC players were disgusted with it, the publisher blames piracy on the PC for low sales, publisher devotes more resources to console games, which leaves less for the PC versions. The PC versions become even less optimized, more buggy, and receive less support, PC sales suffer. Publisher blames piracy and devotes more resources to the consoles. Rinse, lather, repeat.

On the plus side though, since PC gaming is the only thing keeping me running Windows, there's a good chance Windows 7 will be the last MS OS I buy, since the odds are that I won't get an educational discount on Windows 8. :)

I wouldn't say that people who play games on consoles want simpler games than those that play on the PC, but the biggest difference is that the Consoles have a much simpler input device (the controller) than the PC (mouse and keyboard), which means that consoles cannot have as complicated UI as a PC can, and still be functional.

Lets face it, people are people whether they own a console or not. The real barrier to more complex games on the console isn't that the console reduces your IQ by 50 points through some weird diffusion, it is simply because the device has a much more limited input device that the PC has.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,408
9,300
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No, you asked me when the next ID engine game had come out.
I told you "not yet".
Please focus.


o_O The thread was going on before you got here.

DX continues to push forward while the open standards aren't going anywhere.

Have you heard of little company called id Software. They use OpenGl. Doom 3 was the best looking game of it's time. The upcoming Rage will ne using the id Tech 5 engine which is looking good so far.

Have you heard of John Carmack? Some even consider him the best game engine designer in computer history, and he doesn't use DirectX.

Were the quotes I was replying to, if you're going to be sarcastic at least read the thread first so you don't look too silly.
 

Lonbjerg

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2009
4,419
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o_O The thread was going on before you got here.





Were the quotes I was replying to, if you're going to be sarcastic at least read the thread first so you don't look too silly.


Don't blame me because you dropped the ball...I don't care about all the other posts, I only posted because id's buisness model cleary wasn't understood.

I can walk you through it step by step if you need.

It ain't rocket science...
 

HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
7,828
37
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I wouldn't say that people who play games on consoles want simpler games than those that play on the PC, but the biggest difference is that the Consoles have a much simpler input device (the controller) than the PC (mouse and keyboard), which means that consoles cannot have as complicated UI as a PC can, and still be functional.

.

hardly as an only difference. i'm 34...played from the pong system to Amiga/Dos, up to this day i play both. But i play consoles cause they have many games that are fun to play.
i couldnt give 2 shits if their "simple" use a "gamepad" or anything else. Gaming is about having fun, not who is geekier than thou.
and frankly, getting older does not make sitting statically in a chair with hands positioned across a kb/mouse any more comfortable thats for sure. my hands start to cramp up after so long. couch and gamepad is way more comfy but either or, i'll use whatever till i can't no more.

far more differences than gamepads. Anyone who games on consoles do so for a variety of reasons. it could be costs [$200 or a used console and a rental pass plays alot of games cheap]
, exclusives, not restricted to a desk and chair, cause they have others in family who game too, for higher resale value, for collection, for their "pimped out ride" for convenience of no DRM and debilitating bugs or just simply cause they have fun with it and need nothing else
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,408
9,300
136
Don't blame me because you dropped the ball...I don't care about all the other posts, I only posted because id's buisness model cleary wasn't understood.

I can walk you through it step by step if you need.

It ain't rocket science...

You can start another thread about it if you want because I'm not quite sure why you're trying to argue about it here.
 

Ross Ridge

Senior member
Dec 21, 2009
830
0
0
far more differences than gamepads. Anyone who games on consoles do so for a variety of reasons. it could be costs [$200 or a used console and a rental pass plays alot of games cheap]
, exclusives, not restricted to a desk and chair, cause they have others in family who game too, for higher resale value, for collection, for their "pimped out ride" for convenience of no DRM and debilitating bugs or just simply cause they have fun with it and need nothing else

Except a lot of that isn't really true. You can easily play PC games on a couch, I do exclusively. Heck I'm typing this now on my couch. I'm also thinking about getting a PlayStation 3 or maybe an Xbox 360, only $300. Cheaper that most PCs. Except that I'd need to upgrade to an HDTV, and that would mean I'd also need to upgrade my AV receiver to something that supports HDMI. It would end up costing well over $1000. And unfortunately console games have their share of debilitating bugs and are beginning to add PC-like DRM to combat piracy and used game sales. Fortunately the debilitating hardware failures are much more rare these days.

Anyways, if does do anything to "relaunch PC gaming" I hope it's to come up with a workable standard game controller API. Microsoft really messed things up when it released the XInput API that only works Xbox 360 controllers. Now developers have to support two APIs, XInput and DirectInput.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,553
834
126
Is Windows 7 not uber enough for MS or something? Great if this works out for MS, which I doubt. But if it does it will probably mean I'll need to upgrade to Windows 8 to game. There's absolutely no reason MS couldn't do this with Win7.
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,859
4,976
126
Is Windows 7 not uber enough for MS or something? Great if this works out for MS, which I doubt. But if it does it will probably mean I'll need to upgrade to Windows 8 to game. There's absolutely no reason MS couldn't do this with Win7.

Do WHAT specifically? They haven't said WHAT they are doing, and you are bitching that they aren't doing "it" in Win7?
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,553
834
126
Do WHAT specifically? They haven't said WHAT they are doing, and you are bitching that they aren't doing "it" in Win7?

Whatever it is they feel the need for to launch Windows 8 for. Why not stick with 7 and just put out some SP's? There's nothing wrong with 7, just MS out to make more money for a new Windows they'll claim was needed because it has features that were too powerful for Win 7 to support. People are really liking Windows 7, if MS cared about PC gaming them IMHO they should use Windows 7 as the platform. In 2 or 3 years when Windows 8's out, how many people are going to upgrade because of the uber game integration MS will be touting? Windows 7's already here, so launch it with Windows 7 and they'll already have a huge user base. They don't give 2 shits about gaming on a PC, they just want to stuff their pockets with even more cash.
 
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Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
30,859
4,976
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Whatever it is they feel the need for to launch Windows 8 for. Why not stick with 7 and just put out some SP's? There's nothing wrong with 7, just MS out to make more money for a new Windows they'll claim was needed because it has features that were too powerful for Win 7 to support. People are migrating to Windows 7, if MS cared about PC gaming them IMHO they should use Windows 7 as the platform. in 2 or 3 years when Windows 8's out, how many people are going to upgrade because of the uber game integration MS will be touting? Windows 7's already here, so launch it with Windows 7 and they'll already have a huge user base. They don't give 2 shits about gaming on a PC, they just want to stuff their pockets with even more cash.

You mean they are out to make money!? Those Mother F'ers!!!
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,553
834
126
You mean they are out to make money!? Those Mother F'ers!!!

That's business, but I don't like them pretending that bringing gaming back to the PC was even any sort of a reason reason why they're launching Windows 8. Which is kinda how they're making it sound. They were re-launching PC gaming with Vista and that stupid ass GFW crap. That turned out absolutely wonderful.
 

artemicion

Golden Member
Jun 9, 2004
1,006
1
76
HAHA WHY DEVELOP FOR PC AND DEAL WITH ANGRY NERDS COMPLAINING ABOUT DEDICATED SERVERS, LAN MULTIPLAY, AND DRM?

DEVELOP FOR XBOX, WHERE THE DRM IS MICROSOFT'S PROBLEM, AND THERE'S NO PRE-ESTABLISHED EXPECTATION OF LAN SUPPORT OR DEDICATED SERVERS.

(just joking. I love PC gaming. but this is all still true . . .)
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,080
10,883
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HAHA WHY DEVELOP FOR PC AND DEAL WITH ANGRY NERDS COMPLAINING ABOUT DEDICATED SERVERS, LAN MULTIPLAY, AND DRM?

DEVELOP FOR XBOX, WHERE THE DRM IS MICROSOFT'S PROBLEM, AND THERE'S NO PRE-ESTABLISHED EXPECTATION OF LAN SUPPORT OR DEDICATED SERVERS.

(just joking. I love PC gaming. but this is all still true . . .)

actually since the Xbox does support networking to another box, I would expect it for tournaments at LAN parties where you're likely to have multiple Xboxes in the same room for multiplayer competitions.
 

HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
7,828
37
91
Except a lot of that isn't really true. You can easily play PC games on a couch, I do exclusively. Heck I'm typing this now on my couch. I'm also thinking about getting a PlayStation 3 or maybe an Xbox 360, only $300. Cheaper that most PCs. Except that I'd need to upgrade to an HDTV, and that would mean I'd also need to upgrade my AV receiver to something that supports HDMI. It would end up costing well over $1000. And unfortunately console games have their share of debilitating bugs and are beginning to add PC-like DRM to combat piracy and used game sales. Fortunately the debilitating hardware failures are much more rare these days.

of course...but even with wireless kb/mouse, its hardly anything most gamers do and requires some fore thought and setting up and room for a tower less you spend for the HTPC case large enough. My point was in reference to the mass and their reasons. just a partial reason why i play console but i think we all do it cause their fun