RTG tech update, dec 2015

[.vodka]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9836/amd-unveils-2016-vistech-roadmap

http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/radeon-technology-group-tech-update-december-2015,1.html

Some interesting slides posted in this article, but most importantly IMO:

HDMI 2.0a (4k60)
Displayport 1.3 (4k120, 5k60, freesync enabled)
Freesync over HDMI (and displayport -> HDMI) and eyefinity
HDR displays support (presumably for HEVC 10bit content)

Looks like Arctic Islands is going all out on connectivity and freesync support wherever possible. Note the "mobile architecture" remark. New GCN's perf/watt marketing bulletpoint up to par with the competition as indicated in other slides? AMD finally preparing something new for the notebook/etc markets? Better display selection!

Future looks bright! More competition!

 

[flopper]

Look forward the HDR 144hz 3440x1440 screens.
Looks like a whole new PC gaming and desktop experience is coming our way next year.

 

[Mondozei]

Look forward the HDR 144hz 3440x1440 screens.
Looks like a whole new PC gaming and desktop experience is coming our way next year.

As the article implictly states:

Wrapping things up, RTG expects that we’ll start to see HDR capable displays in the mass market in 2016. At this point in time there is some doubt over whether this will include PC displays right away, in which case there may be a transition period of “EDR” displays that offer 10bpc and better contrast ratios than traditional LCDs, but can’t hit the 1000+ nit brightness that HDR really asks for

And much more explicitly

Finally at the other end of the spectrum will be software developers. While the movie/TV industries have already laid the groundwork for HDR production, software and game developers will be in a period of catching up as most current engines implicitly assume that they’ll be rendering for a SDR display.

Careful reading pays off. Even if we saw 1440p, 144 Hz HDR displays next year(unlikely), the software side has to be there, too, which is Ryan frankly says is some ways off.

 

[Mondozei]

The article was interesting through and through. I kept thinking in the back of my head whether this was at least partly a disguised sales pitch from Raja. I mean they're called RTG now, AMD isn't even in their name anymore(even if they are officially under the umbrella).

Raja is surely communicating with would-be investors what the roadmap is, as well as the end-user buyers.

The other aspect that I want to see, speaking of HDR, is OLED. I want to see OLED to come to the desktop monitor market. Even if it comes next year, highly unlikely, I'm guessing the initial costs would be crazy(like they were for 4K monitors) and then rapidly fall in price.

But I want to be able to buy one. I don't understand why we have had mobile phones with OLED displays and now we have had OLED TVs for quite some time but we can't get monitors with OLED. Okay, costs are high for a relatively much smaller market, yada yada but still.

 

[flopper]

As the article implictly states:



And much more explicitly

Careful reading pays off. Even if we saw 1440p, 144 Hz HDR displays next year(unlikely), the software side has to be there, too, which is Ryan frankly says is some ways off.

I suspect BF5 will have HDR support once out.
while dice lack gameplay they do have the tech to have it out.

happy with my current 144hz 1440p screen.
However I am planning to add more screens and more options, good

 

[Shehriazad]

Awww yisss 3440x1440 love. 44 Master race!


Anyway, always nice to see things progress like that. Now if Gsync could be next to stop being proprietary garbage....

 

[jackstar7]

If the DP standard continues to gain traction and stability, we all win.

Also, the prospect of 3440@120+ is really exciting stuff. Given the X34's overall positive reception (if you overlook the QA issues), I think the market for ultrawides at 100+Hz is only going to grow. Hopefully game devs will notice and keep things workable at 21:9.

I definitely think DICE will continue to make entertaining games and work with these standards, so I look forward to BF2242... or when they just merge BF and Star Wars for real.

 

[Aristotelian]

I might have been out of the loop for a really long time, but is there a way to easily observe the difference yet between HDR and SDR on a computer? I've been hoping for 4k at 100hz + for a while, but if HDR is objectively better I'll probably be moving to a 3440x1440, 144hz HDR solution.

On a side issue, I read this through some googling while typing this post out:

http://wccftech.com/amd-bringing-better-pixels-to-pc-hdr-and-larger-color-space-to-consumers-10bpp/ I know wccftech is considered a kind of clickbait site, hence why I'm asking you guys here for more information. The important quote from that article is: "This philosophy starts with being able to render and send full 10bpp color encoding to the monitor, which all current-generation Radeon GPU’s do. In contrast, only NVIDIA’s professional line actually support that."

So is this a feature that is likely to be AMD exclusive? Or is the article I linked blowing smoke? I'm still on a 27" 1440p Dell that I've had since 2010-2011 era (60hz) and I'm really hoping in my next build to have a significant display upgrade too.

 

[crisium]

4K 120Hz is on the horizon!

I also need to find a store with displays properly set-up by actual video professionals to demonstrate HDR. I'm not saying it is a gimmick, but I'm wary.

 

[RussianSensation]

I might have been out of the loop for a really long time, but is there a way to easily observe the difference yet between HDR and SDR on a computer? I've been hoping for 4k at 100hz + for a while, but if HDR is objectively better I'll probably be moving to a 3440x1440, 144hz HDR solution.

I was pretty pumped for 4K for a while but haven't upgraded due to lack of 32-40" 4K G-Sync/FreeSync monitors at reasonable prices and GPU hardware demands. I am starting to think it might not be a bad idea to start looking into 34" 3440x1440 100-144Hz monitors at some point.

The price difference between competing A-Sync technologies is huge on the high-end

34" 3440x1440 IPS XR341CK = $840

34" 3440x1440 IPS XR341CKA = $1279

AMD needs to get 30-144Hz monitors out at all price levels and then 120Hz 4K monitors because clearly their FreeSync monitor offerings are far more affordable.

LG Electronics MU67 27MU67 4K IPS Freesync for $473

That's pretty amazing considering how expensive 2560x1600 monitors were just 5 years ago.

4K 120Hz is on the horizon!

I also need to find a store with displays properly set-up by actual video professionals to demonstrate HDR. I'm not saying it is a gimmick, but I'm wary.

37-40" 4K 100Hz OLED with A-Sync. I could live with that for 10+ years.

OLED (LG EC9300) Response time: 0.3 ms
LED (Samsung JS9000) Response time: 11.1 ms

OLED black levels

LED black levels

"With LED TVs, you’ll notice the picture begins to look washed-out when you view the TV from an angle. At just 19° (which is not very wide, even for an LED TV), the maximum contrast of the JS9000 dropped to 50% of the maximum. The EC9300 OLED made it to 82°, which is more than four times wider, before this happened."
http://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/oled-vs-led

It's just unfortunate that LED/LCD marketing continues to dominate the mainstream TV/panel sales. As a result, it's very hard for OLED unit volumes to take off which is required for them to become more price competitive. Until then, we are still stuck with outdated/inferior LED/LCD tech. Grrr...

 

[flopper]

AMD needs to get 30-144Hz monitors out at all price levels and then 120Hz 4K monitors because clearly their FreeSync monitor offerings are far more affordable.



That's pretty amazing considering how expensive 2560x1600 monitors were just 5 years ago.



37-40" 4K 100Hz OLED with A-Sync. I could live with that for 10+ years.

Its getting better, having my 144hz 1440p screen is amazing and soon we have even 4k at 120hz which simply is astounding but oled for sure is also coming once they manage the manufacturing process better.

 

[Aristotelian]

Its getting better, having my 144hz 1440p screen is amazing and soon we have even 4k at 120hz which simply is astounding but oled for sure is also coming once they manage the manufacturing process better.

But we will only (with displayport 1.3) seemingly have 4k at 60hz with HDR; only 120hz with SDR only. I last played at 100hz on a CRT way back in 2000 and still miss the feel, so I guess this is a trade-off that I will have to suck up. But I'm an image quality addict, and online stills (in google image search) comparing HDR to SDR are rather dramatic. Will this play out during gaming, too?

 

[Despoiler]

HDR will be awesome! The lack of it has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time. Even when you have a great, properly calibrated monitor the below slide

is what you often times get. This initiative is AMD pushing the industry forward once again!

 

[96Firebird]

HDR doesn't always provide more realistic results, a lot of the time it is actually further from realism. This is with respect to images/video, as gaming engines already have HDRR, which has been in place for a while now. The only thing that changes is displays will have higher dynamics ranges, meaning tonemapping (which already exists) will not be needed.

 

[CakeMonster]

But we will only (with displayport 1.3) seemingly have 4k at 60hz with HDR; only 120hz with SDR only.

This.

While I am very happy for what DP1.3 brings, we are still hampered greatly out of the gate. 4K, 120hz, HDR/10bit, cool! But... you can only have two of those three at the time.

4K is here to stay for TV's and I suspect monitors will catch up really soon judging from trends in laptops and macs. So, we will have 4K. Then you have to pick between 120hz and HDR/10bit. That's disappointing.

Yes, I know that performance will hold us back at least for gaming, but how long will DP1.3 last? 5 years? 8 years? I think we will find ourselves very frustrated in a few years, since all these three things being marketed to and increasingly wanted by consumers right now.

 

[tential]

This.

While I am very happy for what DP1.3 brings, we are still hampered greatly out of the gate. 4K, 120hz, HDR/10bit, cool! But... you can only have two of those three at the time.

4K is here to stay for TV's and I suspect monitors will catch up really soon judging from trends in laptops and macs. So, we will have 4K. Then you have to pick between 120hz and HDR/10bit. That's disappointing.

Yes, I know that performance will hold us back at least for gaming, but how long will DP1.3 last? 5 years? 8 years? I think we will find ourselves very frustrated in a few years, since all these three things being marketed to and increasingly wanted by consumers right now.

I'm infuriated.... I was hoping to hear that I would NOT be stuck at 4k 60 hz. Looks like I have to choose between good IQ, or good refresh rates.

That's so stupid. I'm going to pull the trigger on the Wasabi Mango UHD550 soon anyway since it will take awhile for a 4K HDR monitor to be put into a large screen anyway.

 

[biostud]

With current speed in adapting and developing new panel technology we'll see the first HDR monitors turn up in 2018

 

[flopper]

But we will only (with displayport 1.3) seemingly have 4k at 60hz with HDR; only 120hz with SDR only. I last played at 100hz on a CRT way back in 2000 and still miss the feel, so I guess this is a trade-off that I will have to suck up. But I'm an image quality addict, and online stills (in google image search) comparing HDR to SDR are rather dramatic. Will this play out during gaming, too?

for me if I choose a new screen, a 144hz 3440x1440 screen with HDR would go a long way for gaming and atm its what I wait for to buy. 4k would be a dream with HDR but the 1.3dp isnt enough for the bandwidth needed atm as far we know.

This tech is new so we are seeing a delayed advance for gaming, the developers of games code for the masses, console kids, so we need to have hardware with a lot of people to even start reciving a lot of love from game developers.

Once panels and monitors are out, once new cards are out, then the field sort itself out.
I dont worrry about games and support as if the hardware is there then games will display effects for them.

 

[Atreidin]

For a long time I read people complaining about not getting 4K and 120Hz, and now we'll have a cutting-edge standard that does it, but now there's something called HDR I get to hear complaints about not having.

 

[CakeMonster]

I phrased myself very carefully to avoid complaints about complaining. Please consider the point I was making.

 

[Headfoot]

Complaining about people complaining is just about the most ironic thing you can do

 

[Techhog]

When we get 4k 120Hz HDR, people will complain about not getting it at 240Hz or 5k 120Hz. It's a never ending cycle of increasing expectations unless something stops advancing.

 

[CakeMonster]

Sure, it doesn't have to be a major thing... BUT these are three things that are arriving in full force now, and you can't use them at the same time with a standard that is arriving now and will stay here for 5++ years most probably. That's disappointing. That's all.

 

[Atreidin]

Yeah I understand. However I'm referring more to the people who read news like this and become "infuriated." Kind of an over-the-top response.

 

[flopper]

When we get 4k 120Hz HDR, people will complain about not getting it at 240Hz or 5k 120Hz. It's a never ending cycle of increasing expectations unless something stops advancing.

absolutly thats why God invented death so he wouldnt hear people do the whining.
his first idea Immortality didnt work out so well.