• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

RTG and Intel Team Up

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,143
816
126
Wow, Radeon Group pushing Intel CPUs...

http://radeon.com/en-us/radeon-intel-bundle/

Think the Internet will explode?

Radeon has joined forces with Intel to serve up a compelling, limited-time holiday bundle through Newegg that delivers the excellent power efficiency of Intel’s 6th Generation Core-i5 6600K CPU with the powerful, future-ready performance of the MSI Radeon Rx 480 ARMOR 8GB OC (overclocked) video card.
 

slag

Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
10,475
80
91
Holy inflated prices, batman. This "combo" is not a good deal unless you really want those games.

$450.00 is more than you would normally spend on the cpu ($199 at MC) and the video card ($245 at NE). I'd even wager you can OC a cheaper version of the video card so you could get the cheaper $230.00 priced 480.

If you buy a motherboard for the chip (which you'll need anyway, you get an additional $30.00 off the combo at MC.
 

DarthKyrie

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2016
1,385
1,035
146
Holy inflated prices, batman. This "combo" is not a good deal unless you really want those games.

$450.00 is more than you would normally spend on the cpu ($199 at MC) and the video card ($245 at NE). I'd even wager you can OC a cheaper version of the video card so you could get the cheaper $230.00 priced 480.

If you buy a motherboard for the chip (which you'll need anyway, you get an additional $30.00 off the combo at MC.
You need to remember that not everyone has a MC nearby.

Edit: I should add that this is coming from someone who lives 45 minutes from one.
 
Last edited:

raghu78

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2012
4,093
1,474
136
Not bad AMD. Bundling the competitor's CPU to boost your GPU sales. really sensible marketing and I must say a good game bundle too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: USER8000 and Burpo

tajoh111

Senior member
Mar 28, 2005
228
217
116
What a bizarre move.

If I was AMD I would be trying to get people to hold off for a month or two from now to try to get a zen sale. Getting someone to pick up a Intel CPU, means they are knocking out that customer for 2 to 4 years because buying an Intel CPU means buying an Intel platform motherboard. If they buy this cpu and likely a motherboard, they won't be buying a zen system for years.

AMD should be something like save 50-100 dollars off a zen CPU + Motherboard, so people buy this card, put it in there existing system, and wait for a zen system.
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,719
2,003
126
What a bizarre move.

If I was AMD I would be trying to get people to hold off for a month or two from now to try to get a zen sale. Getting someone to pick up a Intel CPU, means they are knocking out that customer for 2 to 4 years because buying an Intel CPU means buying an Intel platform motherboard. If they buy this cpu and likely a motherboard, they won't be buying a zen system for years.

AMD should be something like save 50-100 dollars off a zen CPU + Motherboard, so people buy this card, put it in there existing system, and wait for a zen system.
If you're in the market to buy you're gonna buy and it's going to be Intel. Why not try to get an RX 480 sale in there, too?

Most people don't know about or give two hoots about Zen. They just want to play some video games or get their kid a nice computer for the holidays.
 

gorobei

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2007
3,148
299
126
im wondering if this is part of the ms/intel vr push, they just want as many min-spec vr capable pcs out there as possible. by the time they get the actual headset hardware out there will be no chicken/egg scenario in terms of userbase not having enough gpu horsepower.
 

moonbogg

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2011
9,939
1,624
126
Maybe RTG is tired of being associated with AMD's failures and they are planning to break off and merge with intel? One could hope. Let AMD do their CPU's and let RTG join a strong company and get competitive again. For years now I've only seen AMD as a huge anchor dragging the GPU division down. A big part of why people don't buy their GPU's is because the toxic name "AMD" is branded on the cards.
The AMD name is associated with low performance, constantly being multiple generations behind the competition, delayed releases etc. Even if they have a good GPU, I can't compartmentalize AMD's endless failures from their occasional successes, so my wallet tends to run away from all of their products, not just their bad ones.
If Zen turns into another bulldozer, then RTG has only one choice if they want to avoid going down with the ship. Take that new "RTG" name of theirs and get the hell away from AMD. If RTG merged with intel, I would instantly have more confidence in their products. My opinion right now is that AMD lacks the money to produce GPU's competitively, and this is just spiraling downward for them. With intel backing them, they could finance some proper R&D, grow some balls, and release a full blown badass generation of GPU's.
In my mind, Zen is AMD's absolute last chance to salvage me as a future customer. If Zen sucks, then I'll completely forget all about AMD 100% and permanently.
 

tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
6,733
510
126
www.facebook.com
AMD's marketing is generally much better than it was 18-24 months ago. They're doing a great job of selling other people's products. Kudos to them.
 
Last edited:

DooKey

Golden Member
Nov 9, 2005
1,654
300
126
Wow, pushing Intel cpu's? You guys liking this are out of your mind. AMD has to succeed or the Radeon tech gets sold off. I don't like this at all. AMD must have a death wish.
 

tajoh111

Senior member
Mar 28, 2005
228
217
116
If you're in the market to buy you're gonna buy and it's going to be Intel. Why not try to get an RX 480 sale in there, too?

Most people don't know about or give two hoots about Zen. They just want to play some video games or get their kid a nice computer for the holidays.
But they should or should be trying to stall people at all costs and educating people about it so they do wait on it. If people are in the market for a CPU and they want to buy a PC and don't know about zen yet, this is a failing on AMD part, meaning they need to correct it. Meaning implementing marketing and promotions to get people to know about it.

If zen is available for a months times or atleast it's performance, people may wait. Better yet, since AMD is giving people a taste of the performance in a few days, if that performance is good, cobrand it with GPU making it a bundle by adding a rebate incentive or instant rebate so people will buy a zen system/motherboard/cpu in the future. Don't help sell an Intel CPU. Most people buying a rx480 have a system which can likely house a rx480 for the short term.

Helping selling a competitors CPU, when your chip is going to be available for sale in a month or so is baffling. Particularly the gravity of a zen sale vs a rx480 sale.

A rx480 sale is a spit in the wind compared to the potential profit of a CPU sale.

CPU's are just potentially so much more profitables than GPU's. Nvidia only matched intels margins with this founders editions crap and nearly 40% of their revenue coming from super margins data centers/pro market and super computers.

If zen is any good, a single zen sale is worth 3 or 4 rx 480 sales at the very least in term of profit. This is because a zen chip doesn't have the cost of the fullboard (pcb, power components, etc,) and board partner margin build into it. But if zen is any good and is around the same size, it will have the same selling price meaning AMD gets to absorb that as profit. Also, if zen is any good, this will be the 2nd or 3rd tier chip selling for around 200-240 dollars, meaning the cost to produce the chip is cheaper than a full rx480 chip. This translates from making 20-30 dollars on an rx480 to making 100-140 dollars on a zen CPU. And this is the lowest margin cut down zen CPU(of course assuming zen is good). Add on the profit on each MB chipset and it's insanely more profitable.

Just to illustrate it further

zen profit = MB chipset profit + 240 - (wafer cost, Packing cost(for chip and CPU), dealer markup, chip cost)

Rx480 profit = 240 - (wafer cost, board partner margin, board cost, packagining cost(chip and GPU), dealer marketup, game bundle cost)

I would estimate the board cost, board partner margin and game bundle to cost anywhere from 80-100 dollars.

And this is why AMD poured everything into it's CPU division and starved their GPU division. The CPU division can save AMD. Not their GPU division. AMD needs 300 million more sheer profit to simply properly fund their R and D for CPU's and GPU's. Perhaps even more, considering the increase in R and D cost with finfet and AMD still wants to turn a profit. Add in the volume with CPU's is higher and basically 5-10 digit gains in CPU marketshare translate into a billion or two in revenue and hundreds of millions in profit quarterly. A far more likely scenario than trading spaces with Nvidia with marketshare and prices.

If AMD fans want to save AMD, they should be encouraging, hyping and doing everything in their power to get people to buy a zen CPU.
 
Last edited:

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,363
641
121
You do what you gotta do to move them GPUs.

I think it's a smart step for AMD to rebrand their GPU divsion to Radeon, and drop the AMD name from GPU division. By doing so, they don't increase their risk by letting failures in one division effect customer perception of their other division. Until a time when AMD is confident in both divisions, it seems prudent to keep the fortunes of each division separate.

Still of course is hilarious, but you do what you gotta do to make your money.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Phynaz

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,363
641
121
But they should or should be trying to stall people at all costs and educating people about it so they do wait on it. A rx480 sale is a spit in the wind compared to the potential profit of a CPU sale.

CPU's are just potentially so much more profitables than GPU's. Nvidia only matched intels margins with this founders editions crap and nearly 40% of their revenue coming from super margins data centers/pro market and super computers.

If zen is any good, a single zen sale is worth 3 or 4 rx 480 sales at the very least in term of profit. This is because a zen chip doesn't have the cost of the fullboard, pcb, power components, etc, board partner cost build into it and it has none. But if zen is any good and is around the same size, it will have the same selling price meaning AMD gets to absorb that as profit. Also, if zen is any good, this will be the 2nd or 3rd tier chip selling for around 200-240 dollars, meaning the cost to produce the chip is cheaper than a full rx480 chip. This translates from making 20-30 dollars on an rx480 to making 100-140 dollars on a zen CPU. And this is the lowest margin cut down zen CPU(of course assuming zen is good). Add on the profit on each MB chipset and it's insanely more profitable.

And this is why AMD poured everything into it's CPU division and starved their GPU division. The CPU division can save AMD. Not their GPU division. AMD needs 300 million more sheer profit to simply properly fund their R and D for CPU's and GPU's. Perhaps even more, considering the increase in R and D cost with finfet and AMD still wants to turn a profit. Add in the volume with CPU's is higher and basically 5-10 digit gains in CPU marketshare translate into a billion or two in revenue and hundreds of millions in profit quarterly. A far more likely scenario than trading spaces with Nvidia with marketshare and prices.

"Hey, instead of having something ready to open for Christmas, why don't I interest you in a lovely educationaly seminar on why our new processor will possibly xyz% points better than the intel processor you're buying in some scenarios!!!!"

I'd love to see you pitch this in a meeting. Lol....
 
  • Like
Reactions: Phynaz

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
4,979
341
126
it might be logical to sell some Radeons, but it still very odd to offer a competing product (not really but close enough), the recent rumors of some agreement with Intel and this, makes that strange hardocp article from May more credible
 

tajoh111

Senior member
Mar 28, 2005
228
217
116
"Hey, instead of having something ready to open for Christmas, why don't I interest you in a lovely educationaly seminar on why our new processor will possibly xyz% points better than the intel processor you're buying in some scenarios!!!!"

I'd love to see you pitch this in a meeting. Lol....
People would still be getting a videocard. It's not like nothing is under the tree and 99% chance people have a system that can house a rx480 for the short term.

AMD is already doing a performance preview on Monday. They should be inviting every member of the press, showing as much as they can and getting them excited while sparing no expense. If AMD can get the press on their side, including more casual sites, like cnet, theverge and engadget, it might giving AMD a fighting chance for their CPU launch. AMD future is built on having a successful zen launch. No other product will do it for them. And a large factor in this success will rely on marketing.

AMD has largely ignored these websites or websites have ignored AMD and AMD hardware partners have just. Generally products with AMD CPU's are underreviewed and go by mostly unnoticed. AMD will need to repair and rebuild this relationship up.

Heck even most of the general population has given up on AMD CPU's, and this is what AMD has to change. The skepticism for AMD CPU performance is very high and it is mostly justified. What this means people will buy an Intel CPU, with no regard for AMD because they don't know about zen or have the perception zen will underperform. What people don't realize is because Intel has generally not improved that much over the years, AMD has some sort of shot. There is a good chance zen loses single threaded performance, but multithreaded they have a chance because Intel has been so greedy about giving consumers cores. All AMD needs is 5% more marketshare, which makes the possibility of a comeback much more likely.

AMD needs to reawaken anyone that has bought a AMD CPU during the better times and reawaken this faith. The AMD fans spending all their efforts on trying to sell a polaris chip because it is the only thing AMD does competitively in are wasting their energy if they want to save AMD. AMD selling 4 million polaris GPU's at 10-30 dollars a pop on profit(which is double what they sold the most recent quarter, hence unlikely) would only tranlate into 40 million to 120 million dollars in profit). Probably on the lowerside if we go by the past. Even during AMD strongest times for their graphic division, which was during the middle of 2010(5870 and during fermi), when AMD had 44% marketshare, AMD GPU division only generated 68 million dollars in net profit in a quarter.

Not enough to turn their losses into profit. Just break even at best. A couple million zen CPU sold = hundreds of millions of dollars in profit and it quickly scales from there. So focus your energy on selling a zen and preventing an Intel sale.
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,363
641
121
People would still be getting a videocard. It's not like nothing is under the tree and 99% chance people have a system that can house a rx480 for the short term..
So you believe people will buy AMD GPUs no matter what and that this marketing deal with Intel will not increase AMD GPU sales during the holiday season...

And that 99% of people during the holiday season will already have a desktop computer. Interesting statistic, where did you get that from?

So you believe AMD has an amazing chip, worth touting to all news sites, but is instead hiding it? What do you believe Zen performs like if it's so amazing that AMD needs to show it off to every single news site during the holiday season to convince people to buy an AMD GPU, but wait to buy your CPU until we release an AMD CPU?
 

tajoh111

Senior member
Mar 28, 2005
228
217
116
So you believe people will buy AMD GPUs no matter what and that this marketing deal with Intel will not increase AMD GPU sales during the holiday season...

And that 99% of people during the holiday season will already have a desktop computer. Interesting statistic, where did you get that from?

So you believe AMD has an amazing chip, worth touting to all news sites, but is instead hiding it? What do you believe Zen performs like if it's so amazing that AMD needs to show it off to every single news site during the holiday season to convince people to buy an AMD GPU, but wait to buy your CPU until we release an AMD CPU?
IF someone has a computer, even a computer that was purchased from a big box, it can house a rx 480. Polaris power requirement are not that restrictive. And the ones that are to restrictive are likely not gamers and would not be in the market for a gaming card.

The CPU desktop market has stagnated and has shrunk because most if not all people have a desktop and just don't feel the need to upgrade their existing one. The current install base of desktops GPU's is the number one thing in the way of current desktop sales and the transition of people buying laptops instead of desktops. Anyways, I think it is worth denying someone a gaming desktop, even if they don't have one in the first place, simply because AMD needs that CPU sale, more than anyone. Plus Christmas presents are overrated. A PC now or in a month from now won't be that big of a difference. People should be spending more time with their family on christmas anyways, not gaming.

As for faith in Zen, it is hope and perhaps poorly placed, but that something that we owe AMD. So instead of buying that Intel CPU, that we likely can do without for now, we wait for Zen and give them the chance for a sale. Closing up that sale by buying an Intel system, meaning not giving AMD that chance to show their hand. Things generally look grim and it's irrational to believe AMD is holding a monster chip because of AMD showing in CPU over the last decade, but this is AMD last hand. They don't have the resources and the money for a new architecture if zen doesn't succeed. We owe it to AMD to hold and wait on zen even if the chances are not the best. Every hardware enthusiast that is interested in AMD survival owes it to themselves for the good of competition. It only a few months at most now and most of us can afford the time of holding off on that Intel purchase.

In the case of this deal, buying a polaris GPU while getting an Intel CPU is not helping AMD in the long run. If you look at AMD financials, you will quickly realize a successful CPU launch is the only thing that will save them. AMD needs hundreds of millions in extra profit so they can turn that 230 million dollars or so spent on R and D quarterly into 500+ million. And this will requires hundreds of millions in extra profit which means billions of extra revenue quarterly. And no amount of consoles, extra GPU sold will do this. AMD realizes this and it's why they put everything on hold for the rest of their company.
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,457
641
126
It might have made sense a year or two ago, but with Zen so close to release, it is just bizarre.
What a bizarre move.

If I was AMD I would be trying to get people to hold off for a month or two from now to try to get a zen sale. Getting someone to pick up a Intel CPU, means they are knocking out that customer for 2 to 4 years because buying an Intel CPU means buying an Intel platform motherboard. If they buy this cpu and likely a motherboard, they won't be buying a zen system for years.

AMD should be something like save 50-100 dollars off a zen CPU + Motherboard, so people buy this card, put it in there existing system, and wait for a zen system.
Exactly. Even a year or two ago, it would have been a puzzling move. Now with Zen on the horizon, it is nothing short of bizarre. They must really be desperate to sell those 480s. But it just makes no sense to encourage people to buy an intel CPU when the amazing Zen is supposedly so close to release. Would make more sense to just make a compelling game bundle, or even give some sort of voucher for Zen when it releases.
 

moonbogg

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2011
9,939
1,624
126
If this wasn't a mistake, then maybe RTG is looking out for their own interests.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Phynaz

ASK THE COMMUNITY