RPG Fans: What is the point of inventory?

[micrometers]

Inspired by the Mass Effect thread.

Inventory and other RPG elements. What is the point?

I found loot in Dragon Age especially to be highly annoying. Most of the loot was garbage of course, and to access it you had to do 2-3 clicks, which adds up quickly and slows down the game. And then when you sell the items again you have to go over them and figure out what you want to sell. It is all sorts of an annoying minigame. Why not just give straight up gold? Or make it auto loot. I really liked Mass Effect 2's system which still had loot, but it was just one quick click, and the inventory never burdened you.

 

[dighn]

What is the point of anything? Character progress has always been an important aspect of RPGs, and inventory is just another dimension in which your character can progress. You get better loot as you go through the game, making your character more powerful; and you have to make decisions on what loot to keep, what loot to sell based on your playing style etc.

 

[blackened23]

Uh, what? Thats the point of role playing games? Character cusomization via items, skills, talents, and again items that you equip? Lets take for example world of warcraft where you can equip trinkets that have very unique effects. If you want to have faster run speed you can do that. If you want more damage with a trinket you can do that. Thats the point of the inventory. To customize your character with unique enchants, and items with special properties to suit your playstyle.

 

[QuantumPion]

OP used DAO as an example. DAO had the most useless and pointless item system of any RPG. In normal RPGs items are unique and valuabe.

 

[micrometers]

OP used DAO as an example. DAO had the most useless and pointless item system of any RPG. In normal RPGs items are unique and valuabe.

That might be why, actually.

I do find myself lately just skipping past inventory more and more. I suppose it is more a matter of difficulty tuning. If the difficulty curve were more extreme I might be searching each loot for a better weapon or armor to go on.

but game designers have referred to inventory and loot as the "slot machine" aspect of gaming. I view casino gambling as a pretty low form of existence, slot machines the lowest and dumbest of all.

 

[Karstein]

 

[DaveSimmons]

You just hate inventory because chests and bodies don't contain any space ships:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2208688

 

[Pacman4]

What is the point of anything? Character progress has always been an important aspect of RPGs, and inventory is just another dimension in which your character can progress. Y

True dat, and I find it odd that people want to mod a no weight limit, as that defeats an aspect of the leveling process, plus in my experience, there's always an abundance of goodies.

 

[Bateluer]

Inspired by the Mass Effect thread.

Inventory and other RPG elements. What is the point?

I found loot in Dragon Age especially to be highly annoying. Most of the loot was garbage of course, and to access it you had to do 2-3 clicks, which adds up quickly and slows down the game. And then when you sell the items again you have to go over them and figure out what you want to sell. It is all sorts of an annoying minigame. Why not just give straight up gold? Or make it auto loot. I really liked Mass Effect 2's system which still had loot, but it was just one quick click, and the inventory never burdened you.

Uh, what? DAO's inventory system had 1 click or you just hit I. There, you're in the inventory. Managing it was easy. Mouse over equip-able items automatically compared them to what you currently had equipped for an easy comparison. Takes about a minutes, depending on how much loot you had, to determine what you needed to keep and what you could sell. AFAIK, there was a pretty much 'auto loot', hit Take All when you click on the corpse/chest. Easy.

ME2 didn't have loot or an inventory system, so I'm not sure where you're coming from there. Rather than implement the few changes that'd be needed to fix ME1's inventory system, namely sorting/stacking/filtering, they simply deleted it entirely and removed one of the greatest strengths of an RPG.

OP just wants to play dumbed down console games though, so I'm not going to bother going into much detail. It'd just go over his head.

 

[Red Hawk]

Simple sorting improvements would not have fixed ME1's inventory. The whole thing would have still been pointless. Where's the excitement in going from the Tsunami V assault rifle to the Crossfire VII?

Now, going from your simple steel longsword in Dragon Age: Origins to a sword with an epic name and specific effects like, say, Asturian's Might? That has some appeal.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Simple sorting improvements would not have fixed ME1's inventory. The whole thing would have still been pointless. Where's the excitement in going from the Tsunami V assault rifle to the Crossfire VII?

Now, going from your simple steel longsword in Dragon Age: Origins to a sword with an epic name and specific effects like, say, Asturian's Might? That has some appeal.

what's the excitement of having 4 weapons total available?

at least with ME1, the different weapons had different strengths/weaknesses and you could easily see that. in ME2, no stats were given, so i was under the impression that the newer thing was generally better (minus the one shotgun that had 2 shots before reloading. i needed MOAR! )

 

[Bateluer]

Simple sorting improvements would not have fixed ME1's inventory. The whole thing would have still been pointless. Where's the excitement in going from the Tsunami V assault rifle to the Crossfire VII?

Now, going from your simple steel longsword in Dragon Age: Origins to a sword with an epic name and specific effects like, say, Asturian's Might? That has some appeal.

Thats a different issue. Sort, stack, and filter would have resolved the inventory problem, but the items can still be bland. You still loot unenchanted, and generic items in DAO/etc. They're commonly called vendor trash.

That is one thing I'll give to DA2, the Junk inventory filter. A large chunk of the looted items don't have a specific purpose and are sent directly to the Junk inventory automatically. They also gave the player the ability to send any item to the Junk inventory. Makes it easy to sell everything you noted as Junk with one click when you hit the merchant.

 

[silvan4now]

i have always think that a good inventory is the difference between a good RPG and a greate RPG. to be able to sort it, arrange it and etc has always been a priority to me

 

[PrayForDeath]

What is the point of inventory?

Helps you carry stuff around

 

[Chiropteran]

In the older days of RPGs, inventory management used to be a strategic decision. Your strength determined how much you could carry, so it was something of a bonus that strong fighter type characters could bring home a lot more junk to sell compared to the weakling mages. Also, the games tended to be of the sort where you could reach your weight limit pretty fast if you just looted everything- the expectation was that you had to make strategic decisions on what to carry, and grabbing everything that drops would be nearly impossible (unless you went back to town every 3 minutes or something silly).

The new modern style where items take "item slots" and weight is ignored and certain items stack while others don't is lame and really kills the whole strategic aspect- since everything "weighs" the same you don't have to calculate anything, you just carry the most valuable things you can. It also looks like in most newer games it *is* possible to just take everything as long as you visit the vendor often enough. Instead of being a decision, it becomes mandatory that you take and vendor everything, making it an annoying chore instead of a strategic option.

 

[thespyder]

Yeah, with the greatest of respect, it is pretty clear that the OP is of the mind set that anything more complex than Mario Brothers is a waste of time and that they are all in it for who they can pwn in death matches.

RPGs are not for everyone. And from some of the posts the OP has made, clearly they are not for this person. Best to let it go.

 

[Red Storm]

Inventory only becomes a problem when the game in question doesn't need or benefit from it. Mass Effect is a perfect example. That game is not an RPG (it's a third person shooter), and so RPG features like inventory just didn't work out very well.

An inventory allows you to add a level of realism into the game to avoid the "action game syndrome" where the only things you can interact with or pick up are clearly identified and always key plot items. Elder Scrolls games take this to another level where you can pick up just about anything you want. Is it necessary? Not entirely, but just knowing you could go empty that basket of fruits makes the game world feel all the more real.

In other words, it adds another layer of player choice to the game.

 

[Pia]

An inventory allows you to add a level of realism into the game to avoid the "action game syndrome" where the only things you can interact with or pick up are clearly identified and always key plot items. Elder Scrolls games take this to another level where you can pick up just about anything you want. Is it necessary? Not entirely, but just knowing you could go empty that basket of fruits makes the game world feel all the more real.

And are there disguised special items in these games, so that picking up crap at random or being extra observant may result in something interesting? Can you miss a key plot item? If not, it's as OP and Chiropteran said - there are no real decisions going on, just chores saddled on the player. Stuff that only exists to be sold and will never be confused for something else might as well be auto-converted to gold, etc.

 

[Red Storm]

And are there disguised special items in these games, so that picking up crap at random or being extra observant may result in something interesting? Can you miss a key plot item? If not, it's as OP and Chiropteran said - there are no real decisions going on, just chores saddled on the player. Stuff that only exists to be sold and will never be confused for something else might as well be auto-converted to gold, etc.

I think the root of the problem is actually something else. When the game is designed so that the best/coolest items are sitting on a store shelf, then of course it's going to lead to players seeing loot as nothing more than "X Gold". When I would go "looting" in games that meant only picking up items I would actually use.

Those rare items should be out the world waiting to be discovered. That eliminates the feeling of needing to carry as much junk as possible to sell for gold.

 

[thespyder]

To me it is more than "Do I have the best stuff". It is also a bit about the discovery of it all. And the fact that I am not playing some platformer where I can only have the items/weapons that everyone else who plays the game are using.

If you take an RPG like NWN(1/2) there are literally thousands of permutations of even your basic fighter. And items definitely make the man (as it were). Where one character might specialize in War axe, another might be DEX based and require lots of extra finesse. Neither of these two characters are going to have or use the same equipment. It is a matter of customization.

It is one of the HUGE things that DA2 did wrong. Even if I am playing a character with tag alongs, I still want to customize my entire party. I don't want someone telling me what they look like and what they wear. if i am controlling them in combat and with how they interact with the world, I want to have full control of them.

At the end of the day, if I want a platformer with no real decisions but which special I am going to use to take down the next boss, I will play God of War. If I want more decisions than that, I go RPG. Both game styles are valid and can be fun. But it is all about what style of game you are in the mood for.

 

[Wardawg1001]

And are there disguised special items in these games, so that picking up crap at random or being extra observant may result in something interesting? Can you miss a key plot item? If not, it's as OP and Chiropteran said - there are no real decisions going on, just chores saddled on the player. Stuff that only exists to be sold and will never be confused for something else might as well be auto-converted to gold, etc.

Equipment you find is often better than what you are wearing or what you can buy from a merchant at a given time. It also gives value to skill such as lockpicking and pickpocketing (specifically in Skyrim, though this applies to many other RPGs) that give you access to even more loots. As for missing a key plot item if you aren't carefully scouring everything, no, don't be ridiculous. RPG != point and click adventure game. There are often items that can open up side quests though, for instance several books you can read in Skyrim will activate a new quest related to the events in the book, and many RPGs have quests that are triggered by picking up an item or interacting with the environment in some way. In games with detailed item customization, its not simply a matter of buying the 'best' weapon, there are choices and one item may not be as good for every build or playstyle as the next.

 

[thespyder]

Kind of reminds me of Diablo 1 when it came out. My (then) GF absolutely LOVED the game. So much so that she actually wrote a letter to PC Gamer on "Why women Loved Video games". She explained that what was not to like. You got to "Shop" around and accessorize your character. And you got some mindless killing which lead to getting more money and yet more stuff. I really wish I could find the article, but you get the idea. Customization and accessorizing is really lots of fun for people like me.

 

[Dman8777]

Loot in RPG games stimulates the exact same parts of the brain that slot machines do. That's one of the reaons games like the Diablo series are so popular.

 

[skace]

Equipment is so integral to the RPG genre and is so lost on many these days that I'm not even sure I should do this but I will.

First off, how does a hero survive? Well he survives on mainly 2 principles, that folks will reward him for successfully helping him and that he will acquire pricely objects while scouring the darkest and most dangerous corners of the world. And to scout the darkest most dangerous corners of the world he first has to be sufficiently equipped to handle such locations.

So, inventory first comes into play when you are deciding a trip. What should I bring, what kind of extra items do I need, should I pack light so that I can carry more loot or should I pack heavy so that I don't risk getting stuck somewhere.

Once you are in a dungeon, inventory should come into play with how you handle encounters. Can I take that monster on head first, do I have anything that can hit at range, can I lockpick these chests, can I deal with poisons, how long can I last, I risked leaving my best undead weapon - but this dungeon is full of undead.

And then once you start acquiring loot, ultimately another aspect should come into play, often known as item tetris but in its raw format was usually simply based on numbers alone. This is where, as you acquire new loot and are unsure of what to keep, you ultimately might have to decide to throw something out to make other loot fit. Which can bring up scenarios like: great I dumped my cure potions because I wanted to carry this spear, but now I'm poisoned and dying.

Finally, there is the stats side of the RPG, which is absolutely fundamental. My cleric doesn't have enough STR to equip this bp even though it would be great for her - what do I do. None of my characters have enough intelligence to tell if this item is cursed or uncursed or what the stats are on it, what should I do?

Many of these aspects, especially from the risk side of the scale, have greatly diminished over time. And you could continue to diminish them: why should I sell loot, loot should automatically sell. Yes, perhaps that is a good idea, but it also extremely changes the core gameplay of your game. However, as you remove gameplay, you also need to add gameplay somewhere else, by making some other aspect of your game more complex otherwise it becomes incredibly shallow. Bioware did this in Mass Effect with a really good story, however ME2 failed to hold my attention and is still on my unfinished games list. The story can only hold poorly executed gameplay together so long and the reality is that ME2 has little for me to play for.

 

[skace]

Loot in RPG games stimulates the exact same parts of the brain that slot machines do. That's one of the reaons games like the Diablo series are so popular.

Overly generalized. The term "Monty Haul" was used to define games where acquiring truck loads of random loot becomes the core principle, IE: Diablo 2 (more so than D1). In this type of game, actual dungeon crawling is not as risky to the player as it should be and loot is greatly increased while the overall value of any individual piece of loot is greatly reduced. So the player always looks like they struck jackpot while usually carrying 90% crap with them at any given time.

This is merely one style of play and it has nothing to do with inventory as a whole. While this type of game should lend itself to more item tetris, you usually have a quick route back to town and don't need to plan well for each trip.