Roth IRA questions

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
79,089
457
136
I'm seriously considering opening a Roth IRA before 4/15/2002 Midnight so it counts towards 2001's tax year. As a bank employee I get the annual fee ($30) waived every year but my wife would not if she opened a Roth IRA.

I'm wondering if my wife should also open a Roth IRA? The maximum contribution has been increased this year to $3,000 per IRA as opposed to last year's $2,000 per IRA max. With our powers combined we'd be contributing a total of $6,000 per year with two Roth IRA's.

Anyone here married and have IRA's?

Anyone have some sites with nifty "what if" IRA calculators?

<--- Wishing I had started this when I turned 18 :(
 

Ameesh

Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
23,686
1
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<< I'm seriously considering opening a Roth IRA before 4/15/2002 Midnight so it counts towards 2001's tax year. As a bank employee I get the annual fee ($30) waived every year but my wife would not if she opened a Roth IRA.

I'm wondering if my wife should also open a Roth IRA? The maximum contribution has been increased this year to $3,000 per IRA as opposed to last year's $2,000 per IRA max. With our powers combined we'd be contributing a total of $6,000 per year with two Roth IRA's.

Anyone here married and have IRA's?

Anyone have some sites with nifty "what if" IRA calculators?

<--- Wishing I had started this when I turned 18 :(
>>



i have a roth ira and i started it when i was 17, dont worry you didnt miss much, the market tanked and now it lost half of its value.

if your work has a 401k i would reccomend doing that because you get your employer to match funds

$30 a year is nothing in the long term so definetly do it for both of you. Saving early is the best way to ensure a good amount of money for retirement, time is your enemy when it comes down to compund interest.


oh im not married.
 

PsychoAndy

Lifer
Dec 31, 2000
10,735
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oh, and yes i opened a roth a while back when i was 15. i made the $2k max contribution for 2 years already but i'm not sure if i should kick in any cash now.
 

Ameesh

Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
23,686
1
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<< ross, i'm thinking perhaps that money is better spent lowering your CC debt >>




Well im not sure, the money he puts in the ira will be there for a very long time and at the end of 40 years hes gonna see that intial investment blossom into something to talk about, of course cc debt needs to be gone but look at the larger picture
 

Ameesh

Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
23,686
1
0


<< oh, and yes i opened a roth a while back when i was 15. i made the $2k max contribution for 2 years already but i'm not sure if i should kick in any cash now. >>



now is the best time to do it, the market is depressed and you can get into a lot of stocks at historical lows.
 

PsychoAndy

Lifer
Dec 31, 2000
10,735
0
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<<

<< ross, i'm thinking perhaps that money is better spent lowering your CC debt >>




Well im not sure, the money he puts in the ira will be there for a very long time and at the end of 40 years hes gonna see that intial investment blossom into something to talk about, of course cc debt needs to be gone but look at the larger picture
>>



exellent point ameesh, but lets get hypothetical for a moment. ross has a substantial amount of debt. i'm not going to quote the exact figure. now, that debt is accruing interest, perhaps 9% APR or quite possibly more of an industry average of 20%. now, if ross here kicks $3k into a roth IRA with lets say a 10% annualized gain, he would be better off getting rid of the debt first, right?
 

GoodRevrnd

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
6,801
581
126
I don't believe Roth IRA's are tax deductible. You pay tax on the $3000 now, but it's not taxed when you take it out. The traditional IRA is tax deductible now, but you're taxed on the money when you take it out later in life.
 

Ameesh

Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
23,686
1
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<<

<<

<< ross, i'm thinking perhaps that money is better spent lowering your CC debt >>




Well im not sure, the money he puts in the ira will be there for a very long time and at the end of 40 years hes gonna see that intial investment blossom into something to talk about, of course cc debt needs to be gone but look at the larger picture
>>



exellent point ameesh, but lets get hypothetical for a moment. ross has a substantial amount of debt. i'm not going to quote the exact figure. now, that debt is accruing interest, perhaps 9% APR or quite possibly more of an industry average of 20%. now, if ross here kicks $3k into a roth IRA with lets say a 10% annualized gain, he would be better off getting rid of the debt first, right?
>>




god help ross if he has his credit card debt as long as he keeps his ira, he should pay off his credit card debt but IMO opinion not at the expense of saving for the future, again the enemy here is time.
 

Ameesh

Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
23,686
1
0


<< I don't believe Roth IRA's are tax deductible. You pay tax on the $3000 now, but it's not taxed when you take it out. The traditional IRA is tax deductible now, but you're taxed on the money when you take it out later in life. >>



true and you can use the money in a roth when you purchase your first home.
 

PsychoAndy

Lifer
Dec 31, 2000
10,735
0
0
the question at hand isnt wether the $3k is taxable. obviously the profits accrued in a traditional IRA is tax deferred, whereas a Roth is tax free. we've discussed that many times already.
 

kgraeme

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2000
3,536
0
0
First off, basic economics: Saving money instead of paying off outstanding debt is a losing proposition. The interest on debt is always higher. The savings need to substantially exceed the debt to make it even feasible. But I'm sure Ross as a bank employee knows that.

Specifically for the Roth: It's a pretty good deal; however, if you already own a home, then the benefits are quite a bit less. The interest rates are in the tanks right now to the point my GF is losing money on her Roth. Sure the market will bounce back, but right now the money would be better off in a regular savings account. The interest there won't outpace inflation, but it won't be in the negative numbers either. We're buying a house, and the Roth will probably be a part of the down since we can pull it out with absolutely no penalties since it hasn't actually shown a profit.
 

bozo1

Diamond Member
May 21, 2001
6,364
0
0


<< You pay tax on the $3000 now, but it's not taxed when you take it out >>


That's correct but many people going the Roth route are planning/hoping to be in a much higher tax bracket when they retire thus making it a good deal to pay the lower tax rate now.

 

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
79,089
457
136
My cc debt is under control and I'd rather start now instead of continually putting this off. I'm 90% I'll open a Roth IRA on Monday I'm just not sure if or how I would talk my wife into the benefits of opening her own Roth IRA. Plus another $2,000 would put a slight strain on our finances.

kgraeme - One of the reasons I decided to go with a Roth IRA is because my wife and I will be first time home buyers in a few years. It will be nice taking a withdrawal (if necessary) from our Roth IRA without incurring any penalties.
 

Ameesh

Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
23,686
1
0


<< First off, basic economics: Saving money instead of paying off outstanding debt is a losing proposition. The interest on debt is always higher. The savings need to substantially exceed the debt to make it even feasible. But I'm sure Ross as a bank employee knows that.

Specifically for the Roth: It's a pretty good deal; however, if you already own a home, then the benefits are quite a bit less. The interest rates are in the tanks right now to the point my GF is losing money on her Roth. Sure the market will bounce back, but right now the money would be better off in a regular savings account. The interest there won't outpace inflation, but it won't be in the negative numbers either. We're buying a house, and the Roth will probably be a part of the down since we can pull it out with absolutely no penalties since it hasn't actually shown a profit.
>>





this is the 30 year average for s&p 500, pretty good if you ask me

Heres the DJIA


I'm not saying he shouldnt pay off his consumer debt asap, but he should also realize that his debt now will be a drop in the bucket to him in 30 years.
 

Ameesh

Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
23,686
1
0


<< My cc debt is under control and I'd rather start now instead of continually putting this off. I'm 90% I'll open a Roth IRA on Monday I'm just not sure if or how I would talk my wife into the benefits of opening her own Roth IRA. Plus another $2,000 would put a slight strain on our finances.
>>





thumbs up from me, earlier is always better.



 

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
79,089
457
136
Oh and Ameesh my work does offer a competitive 401k, they match dollar for dollar up to 6% and our max contribution is up to 25%!

I currently contribute 6% to my employer's 401k but will probably increase that in the years to come.
 

kgraeme

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2000
3,536
0
0


<< kgraeme - One of the reasons I decided to go with a Roth IRA is because my wife and I will be first time home buyers in a few years. It will be nice taking a withdrawal (if necessary) from our Roth IRA without incurring any penalties. >>



In our case, the Roth hadn't even gotten to 5 years for no-penalty withdrawl. But because it has actually lost money, there is no taxable interest either. She called the IRS and asked them that specifically.
 

Ameesh

Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
23,686
1
0


<< Oh and Ameesh my work does offer a competitive 401k, they match dollar for dollar up to 6% and our max contribution is up to 25%!

I currently contribute 6% to my employer's 401k but will probably increase that in the years to come.
>>





wow thats great! if i were you i would contribute until you ve hit your max 401k amount hwich i believe is 11.5k a year let your employere match the 6% and keep the ira secondary, im not sure if your allowed to do a roth ira if your covered by a 401k in work.


your employer is awsome! what a great deal!
 

ggavinmoss

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2001
4,798
1
0
RossMAN - I'm sure I'm not suggesting anything revolutionary here, but if your CC debt is so high, have you considered debt consolidation?

-geoff <--- contributing to RothIRA / 401k and having CC debt.

 

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
79,089
457
136


<< RossMAN - I'm sure I'm not suggesting anything revolutionary here, but if your CC debt is so high, have you considered debt consolidation?

-geoff <--- contributing to RothIRA / 401k and having CC debt.
>>



If my cc debt were out of control then I'd do everything in my power to pay it off. This thread is not about cc debt, it's about Roth IRA's.

The cc debt should be paid off in full by next year at which time I'll go into $15k debt to buy a new car :D
 

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
79,089
457
136
Thanks for the link vi_edit, that'll be going into my bookmarks.

Here's some info I saw towards the end of the Quicken.com IRA calculator:

Now that you've seen what IRA account options will do for you, it may be a good idea to review your overall retirement strategy.

Are you saving enough money to meet your retirement goals? Consider using an online retirement planning tool. Many tools will give you an idea of:

Your projected income from Social Security
Your projected pension plan income
How much more you'll need to save to meet your goals
Which tax-deferred savings options you should investigate
Seeking more information about IRAs? The increases in the maximum contribution amounts for 2002 forward provide even greater savings opportunities. Recent changes in tax laws have affected all IRA accounts, including:

traditional IRAs
Roth IRAs
SEP-IRAs
SIMPLE IRAs
Rollovers from one plan to another or to IRAs
The Basics About Traditional IRA Accounts
Here's a brief, to-the-point synopsis of how IRAs work. An individual retirement account (IRA) is a personal savings plan that offers you tax incentives to set aside money for your retirement. Social Security benefits alone often cannot cover the retirement needs of many Americans.

One advantage of an IRA is that you have control over how your assets are invested. You decide (with certain limitations) how to invest your IRA assets, how much to invest (again, with certain limitations), how often you make contributions, and how much risk you want to take with the assets.

A traditional IRA is any IRA that is not a Roth IRA, a SIMPLE IRA, or an Education Savings Account (which used to be called Education IRAs). Using this definition, a SEP IRA is also a traditional IRA, but special rules apply to them.

A traditional IRA is sometimes called an ordinary, regular, or original IRA.

Contributions to your IRA

Ordinarily, you establish an IRA by making a deposit with an IRS-approved custodian (such as a bank, mutual fund, or stockbroker). There's no limit to the number of IRA accounts you can have.

In general, you are allowed to contribute $3,000 in 2002, plus another $500 if you're at least 50 years old, to an IRA as long as you have at least that much in earned income - in other words, if you earned $1,500 this year, you can only contribute $1,500.

You may be able to deduct your contribution in whole or in part depending on your income, filing status, and whether you're covered by another retirement plan. The actual amount you can deduct is calculated on various IRA worksheets that are provided with the instructions to Form 1040 and Form 1040A.

You're allowed to leave the money you can't deduct in your IRA. For example, if you contribute $2,000 and can only deduct $500, you can leave the other $1,500 in the IRA as what's called a "nondeductible contribution." This $1,500 becomes your tax basis in your IRA accounts, which means that you won't be taxed on this money when you later withdraw it.

You can create and make a contribution to your IRA for 2002 any time from January 1, 2002, up to the filing deadline on April 15, 2003.

You can't get an extension for IRA contributions even if you request an extension of time to file the tax return.

NOTE: This doesn't work like your tax return, where the postmark determines when you filed your return. Your IRA has to be in place and funded before you file your return or by April 15, 2003, whichever date is earlier.

Distributions from your IRA

The earnings, such as interest, on IRA accounts are not taxed until they're distributed. (However, this is not considered to be tax-exempt interest, so be sure you don't report it as such on your tax return.)

To avoid penalties, you generally can't begin taking distributions from your traditional IRA until age 59-1/2. There are some exceptions to this rule; they're listed-and calculated-on IRS Form 5329 (Additional Tax on IRAs).

When you do start taking distributions in retirement (after age 59-1/2), there are two possibilities on how the distributions will be taxed:

If you've always been able to deduct all of your IRA contributions, the distributions are fully taxable (this is because you haven't been taxed on the contributions or the earnings to that point, so it will be taxed when you start receiving it).
If you've made any "nondeductible contributions" to your IRA at any time, the taxable amount is calculated on Form 8606 (Nondeductible IRA Contributions). The taxable amount is a percentage of the amount you withdraw.
 

kgraeme

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2000
3,536
0
0


<< I'm not saying he shouldnt pay off his consumer debt asap, but he should also realize that his debt now will be a drop in the bucket to him in 30 years. >>



I agree that the market is a good long-term investment. But a Roth isn't used for the long-term. It's really great for the short-term for something like buying a house, say about 5-10 years. A Roth is going to get you about 8% interest, whereas a CC is usually around 17-19%. So compare a $5000 starting point and 5 years:

CC (17%): owe $10,962
Roth: make $7,347

That's a loss of $3,615 after 5 years. Admittedly, I didn't figure in minumum payments or additional debt or savings payments, but it makes the case.

And even if you do go the long-term investment route, you can invest a lot more in the end by paying off your debt in the short-term and after that putting what would have been the debt payments into the investment instead.



Edit: Investing AND paying off debt at the same time are always the best choice.