Rosenstein Suggested He Secretly Recorded Trump and Discussed 25th Amendment

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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,156
18,647
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Seriously?

Who went on about death panels for grandma? A member of what party is trying to claim his opponent will outlaw BBQ if elected? Who lost their shit at the idea of trans people choosing a bathroom and if it was allowed to happen no woman or child would ever be safe in a public restroom?

That's just the tip of the iceberg with the conservatives hysterics and Wars_on_whatever_the_fuck
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Seriously?

Who went on about death panels for grandma? A member of what party is trying to claim his opponent will outlaw BBQ if elected? Who lost their shit at the idea of trans people choosing a bathroom and if it was allowed to happen no woman or child would ever be safe in a public restroom?
Whataboutderpfer

My comment was specifically about race. The right is no better with its hysterics over LGBT rights, abortion and guns, among other things.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
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Sorry, I missed that post. Thank you for sharing. The idea of concept change supports my thinking and what I said.

Do you acknowledge that our society is well past the systemic racism of things like slavery, apartheid and segregation?

I am a child of the 80s. Michael Jackson was the king of pop. Prince was the king of sexiness. Mike Tyson was the best boxer. Michael Jordan was the greatest basketball player. Colin Powell was one of my role models. Morgan Freeman and Denzel Washington were celebrated actors. In elementary school, we did history projects on Martin Luther King and Harriet Tubman. Under systemic racism, this would not be possible.

Now are there still pockets of stubborn racism remaining? Absolutely. But that is not systemic.

The crack epidemic, OJ trial and Rodney King riots also loomed large as historically significant events of my teenage years.

I’ve also deployed to places where there were brutal civil wars between peoples of the same ethnicity, so perhaps my barometer of systemic racism is a bit different than yours.

I don’t think we can ever erase history or make amends for it. I think we’ve made progress. I think the left gravitates towards hysterics at times, which doesn’t help the conversation.
Do you not think that there are areas of the cities that are ghettoized? Do you not see cops being held to no standards when they murder black citizens?

I think you might be conflating ideas of institutionalized racism (slavery, et all) with systemic racism.

Also, do you think ridding ourselves of one level of racism is the endgame and that anyone (currently alive) deserves a pat on the back for that?

The standards for ending racism are ever increasing until racism is done. If society overcorrects to get to the genuine end, I'm okay with that. Sounds like you're not.
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
27,577
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Whataboutderpfer

My comment was specifically about race. The right is no better with its hysterics over LGBT rights, abortion and guns, among other things.

You didn't exactly qualify that part of your post. I'll try to improve my mind reading.

We do appreciate your concern that people are whining to much about racism. They should just shut up and take it instead.
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
You didn't exactly qualify that part of your post. I'll try to improve my mind reading.

We do appreciate your concern that people are whining to much about racism. They should just shut up and take it instead.

Republicans have been working on their Rules.

Rule # 1: No complaining

Rule # 2: No explaining
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
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Do you not think that there are areas of the cities that are ghettoized? Do you not see cops being held to no standards when they murder black citizens?
Absolutely, but that is a function of the deterioration of working class neighborhoods, whether its a housing project in the Bronx or a trailer park in Missouri.

I see cops being held to inconsistent standards, and I think the situation is more complex than simply cops shooting black citizens. Nearly every shooting is the result of an unecessary escalation of events

I think you might be conflating ideas of institutionalized racism (slavery, et all) with systemic racism.
I consider them synonymous but I can understand how you might differentiate the two.

Also, do you think ridding ourselves of one level of racism is the endgame and that anyone (currently alive) deserves a pat on the back for that?
Fair point, no

The standards for ending racism are ever increasing until racism is done. If society overcorrects to get to the genuine end, I'm okay with that. Sounds like you're not.
I am not ok with it when it swings into the realm of the absurd such as the disproportional outrage attributed to micro-aggressions.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
You didn't exactly qualify that part of your post. I'll try to improve my mind reading.

We do appreciate your concern that people are whining to much about racism. They should just shut up and take it instead.
You should get a brace for that knee so it doesn’t jerk quite so much.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
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CNN is reporting that Rosenstein is about to resign

Rosenstein might resign instead of making Kelly fire him. In any case if (when) Trump effectively shuts down Mueller then the hopefully Democrat Congress will bring him forward to testify with Mueller. If there's no ongoing investigation then there's no reason to withhold the facts.
 

evident

Lifer
Apr 5, 2005
12,014
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how does his resignation affect the investigation. that is the most important thing
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
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I am not ok with it when it swings into the realm of the absurd such as the disproportional outrage attributed to micro-aggressions.
So I'm saying it's going to suck to be you and you're going to be fighting the tide.

Until racism is basically extinguished (probably requiring some kind of existential/societal flashpoint), the scope of what is racism is going to grow to encompass ALL of it, even what you don't consider to be "real" racism... presumably because it doesn't affect you at all, except that you might find yourself guilty of it?

What I take from your stance is that there's a line where you will stand on the wrong side of history rrrrrreaaaaly close to the point where we actually rid ourselves of racism. Why do that?
 

HurleyBird

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2003
2,759
1,455
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The standards for ending racism are ever increasing until racism is done. If society overcorrects to get to the genuine end, I'm okay with that. Sounds like you're not.

No. Over-correction is potentially catastrophic. When you over-correct you breed resentment inside the group you're discriminating against. And because that resentment exists, you end up with more racism, not less, and harboured under the skin to hide from over zealous social engineers. So then you need to move society even further to combat that additional racism, which drives more racism, etc.
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,538
759
146
NYT sucks ***.

Dn3-LMgVsAApXhd.jpg
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,205
10,865
136
They had to print it though. It's sourced originally from an internal memo by McCabe. If this was just anonymous tips about a conversation, I would agree, and I think NYT wouldn't have printed it then. But this information is too credible to not print it.

I do agree about the impact of it though. It's not good. :(
Damn liberal media. /s
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
No. Over-correction is potentially catastrophic. When you over-correct you breed resentment inside the group you're discriminating against. And because that resentment exists, you end up with more racism, not less, and harboured under the skin to hide from over zealous social engineers. So then you need to move society even further to combat that additional racism, which drives more racism, etc.
Your quote thing mis-attributed that.

And resentment is a small price to pay for thousands of years of injustice all in one direction. But you're not talking about resentment. You're talking about ignorance given action.

Also, the people you're talking about already feel like resent-filled victims. Nothing is going to change that mindset, unless you think those people are entitled to... something?
 

HurleyBird

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2003
2,759
1,455
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And resentment is a small price to pay for thousands of years of injustice all in one direction. But you're not talking about resentment. You're talking about ignorance given action.

Thousands? Quite hyperbolic, and the entire sins of the father thing is pre-enlightenment thinking. Let's not bring that back.

Also, the people you're talking about already feel like resent-filled victims. Nothing is going to change that mindset, unless you think those people are entitled to... something?

I think social engineers have already overcompensated in a number of ways, and we're currently at the early phase of that positive feedback scenario. It's part of the reason for the growing political divide, and manifested itself in events like Trump and Brexit exactly the way one would expect -- pollsters can't accurately measure a demographic that has under-the-skin resentment of society.

I want to end racism as much as the next guy, but the solution is to put everyone on an equal footing under law, combined with moderate, organic social pressure against aggressors, and we'll get there given enough time. Overcompensating is only going to breed more racism.