Ron Paul unveils a REAL stimulus plan

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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The four areas that the plan covers are:

1. Tax Reform:
Reduce the tax burden and eliminate taxes that punish investment and savings, including job-killing corporate taxes.

2. Spending Reform:
Eliminate wasteful spending. Reduce overseas commitments. Freeze all non-defense, non-entitlement spending at current levels.

3. Monetary Policy Reform:
Expand openness with the Federal Reserve and require the Fed to televise its meetings. Return value to our money.

4. Regulatory Reform:
Repeal Sarbanes/Oxley regulations that push companies to seek capital outside of US markets. Stop restricting community banks from fostering local economic growth.

Details are needed on #1. It is a vague blanket statement "Reduce tax burden".
Also, unless there is going to be a $1 per $1 reduction in government spending where will the lost funds come from.

Details are needed on #2. What are the wasteful spending programs. Will congress be able to weasel out of it. What does he call commitments - military bases , foreign aid programs (which ones)?

What does he think the Feds are hiding -the possibility could exist for showcasing and political influence when they are no longer felt to be independent.

Details are needed on #4. Some of the limitations on the banks are in place to prevent speculation and over extension (ala '80s).
currently we can see what is happening to banks when the reigns are not controlled - the sub-lending market issue is a perfect example.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
I thought the lack of regulations are what created the subprime mortgage problem in the first place.
 
Dec 10, 2005
24,055
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Yeah... repeal the Sarbanes/Oxley act, because you know, companies like Tyco, Enron, and MCI were able to regulate themselves real well. :roll:
 

Mavtek3100

Senior member
Jan 15, 2008
524
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Well Repeal it by Passing H.R. 1049 to reform Sarbanes-Oxley and reduce the burden it places on small businesses. Which H.R. 1049 takes the burden of regulation and what not on business' that report less than $1 mill a year. It makes sense, having to hire auditors to work around the clock to figure out how to be compliant for SOX is a burden.
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
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Almost there guys. Few more RP threads and you will have the entire first page.
 

Mavtek3100

Senior member
Jan 15, 2008
524
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I don't know I like all of them :) Especially the Federal Reserve must hold their meetings on Public Television! That's great! Did anyone catch the big one here? I thought this was classic indeed.

Eliminate Taxes on Capital Gains. Investment should be embraced and rewarded.

* Pass H.J. Res 23 (The ?Liberty Amendment?), proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States relative to abolishing personal income, estate, and gift taxes and prohibiting the United States Government from engaging in business in competition with its citizens.
 

Mavtek3100

Senior member
Jan 15, 2008
524
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Originally posted by: loki8481
I thought the lack of regulations are what created the subprime mortgage problem in the first place.

Oh yea, I'm sure.... Really? You thought that? You don't think it was the possibility that the Fed was giving away cheap money and that the banks got stupid and irresponsible?

Well someone is working you over I bet it's those that want socialism.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
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Originally posted by: Mavtek3100
I don't know I like all of them :) Especially the Federal Reserve must hold their meetings on Public Television! That's great! Did anyone catch the big one here? I thought this was classic indeed.

Eliminate Taxes on Capital Gains. Investment should be embraced and rewarded.

* Pass H.J. Res 23 (The ?Liberty Amendment?), proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States relative to abolishing personal income, estate, and gift taxes and prohibiting the United States Government from engaging in business in competition with its citizens.

:thumbsup:
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: Brainonska511
Yeah... repeal the Sarbanes/Oxley act, because you know, companies like Tyco, Enron, and MCI were able to regulate themselves real well. :roll:
SOX is costing billions and billions and billions for companies to adhere to. That's not "maybe this company has bad records, maybe it doesn't"--this is guaranteed losses. A lot of businesses are wasting tons of money being sox compliant.

 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: Mavtek3100
Especially the Federal Reserve must hold their meetings on Public Television! That's great! Did anyone catch the big one here? I thought this was classic indeed.

Actually that's probably one of the dumbest ideas to ever come out of his pen. Why is it I get the feeling that none of the advocates for this crap have ever worked for a decent-sized company in a decision making role?

Controlling and forming the information that comes out of your organization is essential to making sure people clearly understand what you're trying to do. Not to mention how many people would instantly start cutting up pieces from various meetings and piecing them together without context solely to create hysteria. Brilliant plan considering how important market confidence is when it comes to the Fed's operations.
 

Mavtek3100

Senior member
Jan 15, 2008
524
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Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: Mavtek3100
Especially the Federal Reserve must hold their meetings on Public Television! That's great! Did anyone catch the big one here? I thought this was classic indeed.

Actually that's probably one of the dumbest ideas to ever come out of his pen. Why is it I get the feeling that none of the advocates for this crap have ever worked for a decent-sized company in a decision making role?

Controlling and forming the information that comes out of your organization is essential to making sure people clearly understand what you're trying to do. Not to mention how many people would instantly start cutting up pieces from various meetings and piecing them together without context solely to create hysteria. Brilliant plan considering how important market confidence is when it comes to the Fed's operations.

I freaking love the idea! Around .2% of America would actually care and watch it, but I'd still love it! I mean to see them squirm around and actually be held accountable by Americans for what they do would be awesome. Seriously they are the ones in control of our monetary system, why shouldn't it be transparent. After all it's a currency, a form of exchange nothing more. I don't see why we can't see what the Fed does, CSPAN covers everything the House and Senate do. Oh and another thing, it's your money.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
The four areas that the plan covers are:

1. Tax Reform:
Reduce the tax burden and eliminate taxes that punish investment and savings, including job-killing corporate taxes.

2. Spending Reform:
Eliminate wasteful spending. Reduce overseas commitments. Freeze all non-defense, non-entitlement spending at current levels.

3. Monetary Policy Reform:
Expand openness with the Federal Reserve and require the Fed to televise its meetings. Return value to our money.

4. Regulatory Reform:
Repeal Sarbanes/Oxley regulations that push companies to seek capital outside of US markets. Stop restricting community banks from fostering local economic growth.
Details are needed.

I'd imangine the details are in the bills he's proposed.

Fern
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: Mavtek3100
I don't know I like all of them :) Especially the Federal Reserve must hold their meetings on Public Television! That's great! Did anyone catch the big one here? I thought this was classic indeed.

Why should the US public not be privy to this info?

It's not national security stuff about military stuff,secret agents or terrorist investigations.

It's information about our money and our economy.

Why should a select few have it and profit by it?

Fern
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: Brainonska511
Yeah... repeal the Sarbanes/Oxley act, because you know, companies like Tyco, Enron, and MCI were able to regulate themselves real well. :roll:
SOX is costing billions and billions and billions for companies to adhere to. That's not "maybe this company has bad records, maybe it doesn't"--this is guaranteed losses. A lot of businesses are wasting tons of money being sox compliant.

Amen. We have our resources where I work wasting inordinate amounts of time on Proceses just to adhere to SOX, for the sole reason of adhering to SOX.

It was a kneejerk law that in reality does nothing in the first place other than burder American comanies.

It needs to go.

Chuck
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Originally posted by: Mavtek3100
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: Mavtek3100
Especially the Federal Reserve must hold their meetings on Public Television! That's great! Did anyone catch the big one here? I thought this was classic indeed.

Actually that's probably one of the dumbest ideas to ever come out of his pen. Why is it I get the feeling that none of the advocates for this crap have ever worked for a decent-sized company in a decision making role?

Controlling and forming the information that comes out of your organization is essential to making sure people clearly understand what you're trying to do. Not to mention how many people would instantly start cutting up pieces from various meetings and piecing them together without context solely to create hysteria. Brilliant plan considering how important market confidence is when it comes to the Fed's operations.

I freaking love the idea! Around .2% of America would actually care and watch it, but I'd still love it! I mean to see them squirm around and actually be held accountable by Americans for what they do would be awesome. Seriously they are the ones in control of our monetary system, why shouldn't it be transparent. After all it's a currency, a form of exchange nothing more. I don't see why we can't see what the Fed does, CSPAN covers everything the House and Senate do. Oh and another thing, it's your money.

I'm sure you do love it - you seem to have absolutely no reasoning skills of your own and accept whatever comes out of Senator Paul's mouth as the gospel truth. Why would you even begin to think critically about this?

Again, it's obvious who has actual real-world experience with the press, investors and customers, and who doesn't. Nobody exposes discussions and negotiations to the world - it's a formula ripe for misunderstanding and disaster.
 
Oct 27, 2007
17,010
1
0
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Mavtek3100
I don't know I like all of them :) Especially the Federal Reserve must hold their meetings on Public Television! That's great! Did anyone catch the big one here? I thought this was classic indeed.

Why the US public not be privy to this info?

It's not national security stuff about military stuff,secret agents or terrorist investigations.

It's information about our money and our economy.

Why should a select few have it and profit by it?

Fern

Think your dollar lacks stability now? See what happens when you introduce this type of transparency into the Federal Reserve.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: Mavtek3100
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: Mavtek3100
Especially the Federal Reserve must hold their meetings on Public Television! That's great! Did anyone catch the big one here? I thought this was classic indeed.

Actually that's probably one of the dumbest ideas to ever come out of his pen. Why is it I get the feeling that none of the advocates for this crap have ever worked for a decent-sized company in a decision making role?

Controlling and forming the information that comes out of your organization is essential to making sure people clearly understand what you're trying to do. Not to mention how many people would instantly start cutting up pieces from various meetings and piecing them together without context solely to create hysteria. Brilliant plan considering how important market confidence is when it comes to the Fed's operations.

I freaking love the idea! Around .2% of America would actually care and watch it, but I'd still love it! I mean to see them squirm around and actually be held accountable by Americans for what they do would be awesome. Seriously they are the ones in control of our monetary system, why shouldn't it be transparent. After all it's a currency, a form of exchange nothing more. I don't see why we can't see what the Fed does, CSPAN covers everything the House and Senate do. Oh and another thing, it's your money.

I'm sure you do love it - you seem to have absolutely no reasoning skills of your own and accept whatever comes out of Senator Paul's mouth as the gospel truth. Why would you even begin to think critically about this?

Again, it's obvious who has actual real-world experience with the press, investors and customers, and who doesn't. Nobody exposes discussions and negotiations to the world - it's a formula ripe for misunderstanding and disaster.

Can anyone seriously put stock in the opinion of someone that thinks Ron Paul is a senator?
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: Mavtek3100
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: Mavtek3100
Especially the Federal Reserve must hold their meetings on Public Television! That's great! Did anyone catch the big one here? I thought this was classic indeed.

Actually that's probably one of the dumbest ideas to ever come out of his pen. Why is it I get the feeling that none of the advocates for this crap have ever worked for a decent-sized company in a decision making role?

Controlling and forming the information that comes out of your organization is essential to making sure people clearly understand what you're trying to do. Not to mention how many people would instantly start cutting up pieces from various meetings and piecing them together without context solely to create hysteria. Brilliant plan considering how important market confidence is when it comes to the Fed's operations.

I freaking love the idea! Around .2% of America would actually care and watch it, but I'd still love it! I mean to see them squirm around and actually be held accountable by Americans for what they do would be awesome. Seriously they are the ones in control of our monetary system, why shouldn't it be transparent. After all it's a currency, a form of exchange nothing more. I don't see why we can't see what the Fed does, CSPAN covers everything the House and Senate do. Oh and another thing, it's your money.


So, what about shareholders and board meetings? Wouldn't it be equally as important for them to see everything, since the BoD controls their share's performance? What about the CIA or FBI, it's important that we see what's going on there, FOI isn't enough, right?

What about anything where ideas that aren't filtered so the public doesn't go ape-shit about them?

Do you remember the Briefcase Barometer from the Greenspan days, where they would take anything he said or did, including what size briefcase he was using, to determine what was going on with the economy?

Seriously, you guys just don't know what the hell is needed to keep the markets clean. Even now people listen to the slightest nuace in board meetings which could indicate whether the company's performance is good or not. Hell, look what happened during the more recent Bear Sterns call, or countrywide. Even the slightest idea can be taken out of context, which is why those calls are heavily scripted.

What you don't realize is that BoD meetings or BoG meetings for the Fed are arenas for discussions to take place. Ideas, projections, solutions, warnings, opinions, are all tossed around. Direct exposure to these would result in people misinterpreting situations. For example, if 1 governor thought we should raise rates, the market would try to peg % likelihood on that, given power blocks, influence of that certain bank, the economy of the Fed bank area, and other factors.

Furthermore, the sounding board that is a Fed meeting is for the creation of new ideas. A BoD of any company is the same thing, as they use those meetings to direct the future of each company. It's akin to throwing shit on a wall and seeing what sticks. If you open that up to anybody, they will misinterpret anything possible. Volatility would increase as analysts ran different projections. People would speculate about any number of variables.

This is the problem I have with people who have no financial education, no market experience, and no solid economics experience, those who read books and bandy theories rather than practicum, start trying to dictate and implement massive change. It produces nothing but a bunch of prognosticators who think they know a lot, but in reality, no nothing at all.

It's dangerous because they, through their ignorance, can literally sink this country in days, not weeks or years or decades.


 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: xj0hnx
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: Mavtek3100
Originally posted by: yllus
Originally posted by: Mavtek3100
Especially the Federal Reserve must hold their meetings on Public Television! That's great! Did anyone catch the big one here? I thought this was classic indeed.

Actually that's probably one of the dumbest ideas to ever come out of his pen. Why is it I get the feeling that none of the advocates for this crap have ever worked for a decent-sized company in a decision making role?

Controlling and forming the information that comes out of your organization is essential to making sure people clearly understand what you're trying to do. Not to mention how many people would instantly start cutting up pieces from various meetings and piecing them together without context solely to create hysteria. Brilliant plan considering how important market confidence is when it comes to the Fed's operations.

I freaking love the idea! Around .2% of America would actually care and watch it, but I'd still love it! I mean to see them squirm around and actually be held accountable by Americans for what they do would be awesome. Seriously they are the ones in control of our monetary system, why shouldn't it be transparent. After all it's a currency, a form of exchange nothing more. I don't see why we can't see what the Fed does, CSPAN covers everything the House and Senate do. Oh and another thing, it's your money.

I'm sure you do love it - you seem to have absolutely no reasoning skills of your own and accept whatever comes out of Senator Paul's mouth as the gospel truth. Why would you even begin to think critically about this?

Again, it's obvious who has actual real-world experience with the press, investors and customers, and who doesn't. Nobody exposes discussions and negotiations to the world - it's a formula ripe for misunderstanding and disaster.

Can anyone seriously put stock in the opinion of someone that thinks Ron Paul is a senator?

Can anybody put stock into the opinion of somebody who thinks Ron Paul should be listened to?

Wow, apparently 90% of America thinks not!

 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Can anybody put stock into the opinion of somebody who thinks Ron Paul should be listened to?

Wow, apparently 90% of America thinks not!

Consider who those 90% are listening to, and who they'll vote for. ;)

Curiously, what do you think about the rest of his plan? Compared to others?