Ron Paul 2012

[airdata]

Since Mr Paul is retiring perhaps he should run on a third party ticket.

The reason he's not running as a third party is because our country is stuck in it's ways. We have this 2 party system and alot of voters see a third party as a wasted vote.


And here we go... Ron Paul wins San Diego straw pull!

Probably not being talked about anywhere on tv. If it were Michelle Bachman, it'd be front page news everywhere. But for Ron Paul it's just a regular thing since he's winning so many of these things and polling so high in legitimate polls.

 

[FDF12389]

I like some of his idea's like allowing the state to dictate if it want's prostitution of legalization of marijuana and other things. He wants the government to get out of REGULATING and release the power to the states. I AGREE ON THAT.

But I have a few problems...

1) the guy doesn't believe in evolution and lets not STOP there he doesn't even believe in evolution as a theory! Sheesh... Yeah I know...everyone has an opinion! But, what is he gonna take evolution completely out of the text books? I have a problem with this.

Source? You're really trying to tell me a libertarian is going to make changes to text books from a federal level?

2) the guy is all for Abortion and believes that we TAX payers should pay for babies that are born prematurely... Even if the mother doesn't have health insurance and MOST mothers that have premature kids are on meth or crank or some other drug.

So fuck them babies. Let's keep spending BILLIONS elsewhere and fuck these kids. amiright?


3) the guy just stated he would let an American die that didn't have health coverage... I just remind you he is a doctor... And I should bring up #2 again, he's gonna let an American adult die that was down on his/her luck for whatever reason... Yet we can go back to issue #2 and spend half million dollars on a baby that doesn't have health insurance due to drugs???????? Where the logic in this? Fuck the baby, let's help someone that's already educated and could be productive again in a few years.

Source? Quote? Context?

4) he's against stem cell research...

But has said he'll let the states decide, so what's the problem?

5) he's whacked out on religious believes. Like Bush Jr. See where that got us?

Yes, Bush Jr. would have made a fine president if he wasn't religious. Give me a break, a lot of candidates are religious. Good thing he isn't for legislating morality.

6) I doubt he will make the cut to become the republican candidate for US president.

7) the two party system is fucked!

8) I'm voting third party!

 

[TheSlamma]

The reason he's not running as a third party is because our country is stuck in it's ways. We have this 2 party system and alot of voters see a third party as a wasted vote.


And here we go... Ron Paul wins San Diego straw pull!

Probably not being talked about anywhere on tv. If it were Michelle Bachman, it'd be front page news everywhere. But for Ron Paul it's just a regular thing since he's winning so many of these things and polling so high in legitimate polls.

Even when they do talk about her it still never makes her legit either, so it won't help him either.

 

[airdata]

Well TheSlamma : Not a few months ago. A few months ago Bachman was being hailed as the front running candidate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK6WAS21-gE&feature=related

What's happening in the media is very real. They put out stories and tell people who is running. They've been ignoring Ron Paul all year even when he wins things. On more than one occasion, main stream media has listed top 3 results w\ Ron Paul being omitted. " Bachman #1, Perry #3... since when does 3 come after 1 ?

As I've said in many other threads. It boils down to voter fraud, voter manipulation... however you want to call it. Believe it or not, there are alot of people who all of their news from the afternoon/evening network news shows. Or worse, the news shows later in the evening on Fox.

If you go around the country pretending you're giving people the honest news and you're telling them that 3-4 people are running for president, and you ignore the best received, most widely supported candidate... you're rigging the vote. You're tricking people into thinking their options are flip flopping romney, meltdown perry, or sexual harrassment, federal reserve herman cain.

 

[GaiaHunter]

I won't say Ron Who, because his views are well know. Nor will I say he does not have some appealing positions.

But at his core, Ron Paul is simply a libertarian nut, advocating a system of government that simply can't work in a modern industrialized society. There are some very good reasons, a libertarian style government has never even been tried in any culture advanced from hunter gatherers. Its more a utopian dream, very much like communism based on the idea that men will not abuse the system. And always on that spirit is willing but the flash is weak principle that the strong always abuse the weak, that in turn causes utopian schemes to always fail.

In communism there is a system.

As there is a system in democracy - you can kick the faces in the but, but you have no assurance the new guys will revert the policies of those you just kicked from office - instead of a dictator with a face you can get a dictatorial system with no face that can take all the powers it wants, and if constitution forbids, change the constitution to allow it.

A libertarian type government (like the one Ron Paul defends) is a government with Army, Police and Justice/Law, the 3 things you surely don't want in private hands.

And it is false it was never tried, early US was a bit like that, unfortunately the law was a bit diffused.

 

[Spikesoldier]

Since Mr Paul is retiring perhaps he should run on a third party ticket.

But what gets me about these Ron Paul threads is the absolute certainty of his supporters that the reasons he ranks low in the polls is because of media and "them" conspiracies and voter ignorance.

Is it possible the US voter does not want his Libertarian-lite solutions for running the country?

the average US voter is a retarded sack of shit that only cares about himself and his small little world.

they are incapable of understanding RP's message and instead when they watch the debates, will remember and vote for whoever is the drama king or whoever punk'd the other guys the most. basically a high school popularity contest.

the average american can probably name the whole cast of jersey shore instead of the four presidents on mt. rushmore.

 

[sm625]

This is some amazing brainwashing. You honestly think that no one is capable of seriously debating against Ron Paul's positions? You don't think there are any arguments out there against his loony commodity based currency ideas? Against his isolationism?

I have read and/or listened to over 100 hours of Ron Paul's speeches and criticisms of them. Take the isolationism. Totally twisted logic. You dont seem to know what the term means. The current US administration is far more isolationist when viewed from its victims perspective. 4 million dead Iraqis would have a thing or two to say about your opinion on what isolationism means. And yes a commodity based currency makes much more sense than simply handing 4% of its value per year to the top 1%. Duh. You want to talk about loony? Shilling for the Federal Reserve System is loony. 13% yoy increase in the price of a turkey dinner? So what, who cares. The rich can buy 14000 turkey dinners. Retail sales are up 8%, that is all that matters. That is the kind of crap you're throwing at Ron Paul while calling his positions loony. You clearly have no concept of lunacy.

 

[sm625]

The problem is that Paul's "rational thought" amounts to verifiably false predictions, like the collapse of the U.S. dollar, world economy, et al:

Since 1983 (and years before that) he has been claiming that the very crux of the financial system (fiat money supply, the Federal Reserve) should be abolished in favor of no Fed and gold-backed dollars using fixed exchange rates. So, how long did it take for Paul to get it right about the entire financial system collapsing? Never, though if this current crisis were to be it (it isn’t), it will have been decades.

You really think something this big collapses over night? This was the biggest most powerful and wealthiest country in the world, with the brightest people and most innovation. Now it is a hollowed out husk drowning in debt stripped of most of its natural resources with a dumbed down mindhumped majority subclass of intellectual slaves conditioned through the controlled media to believe that the solution to our problems is more of the same and that people like Ron Paul are loons. There you go. You will get exactly what you deserve.

But Ron Paul is not wrong. The US currency, once the strongest in the world, has lost its value at a breathtaking pace. It might help if you looked at the value of the dollar as it is for the bottom 99%. The antics of the top 1% have served to mask at least half of the currency's true decline, but it is still breathtaking nonetheless.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I know you've heard of grand juries indicting a ham sandwich. The same is true for Texas' 14th Congressional district they will elect anything with a "R" beside it. Paul is not that popular down here. Hell, he was elected several times due to the fact he was running unopposed.

 

[fskimospy]

I have read and/or listened to over 100 hours of Ron Paul's speeches and criticisms of them. Take the isolationism. Totally twisted logic. You dont seem to know what the term means. The current US administration is far more isolationist when viewed from its victims perspective. 4 million dead Iraqis would have a thing or two to say about your opinion on what isolationism means. And yes a commodity based currency makes much more sense than simply handing 4% of its value per year to the top 1%. Duh. You want to talk about loony? Shilling for the Federal Reserve System is loony. 13% yoy increase in the price of a turkey dinner? So what, who cares. The rich can buy 14000 turkey dinners. Retail sales are up 8%, that is all that matters. That is the kind of crap you're throwing at Ron Paul while calling his positions loony. You clearly have no concept of lunacy.

I know exactly what isolationism is, and it is Ron Paul's policy. You are welcome to think that's a good thing, but it is most certainly isolationism. A commodity based currency makes no sense, whatsoever. Go look at Greece and Italy if you want to see what sorts of things a commodity based currency gets you. (the Euro is in effect a gold standard for those countries)

Also, the fact that you've listened to more than 100 hours of speeches by some politician makes me somewhat suspect of your ability to view criticism of his positions rationally.

 

[momeNt]

I know exactly what isolationism is, and it is Ron Paul's policy. You are welcome to think that's a good thing, but it is most certainly isolationism. A commodity based currency makes no sense, whatsoever. Go look at Greece and Italy if you want to see what sorts of things a commodity based currency gets you. (the Euro is in effect a gold standard for those countries)

Also, the fact that you've listened to more than 100 hours of speeches by some politician makes me somewhat suspect of your ability to view criticism of his positions rationally.

You're better than that, attributing their problems to fiat based currency whose monopoly control exists outside of their domain is not why they have their problems. Their problems are due to excessive government and/or too little taxation.

Just because A. Euro printing is not monopolized by each state that participates in the Euro (commodity standard principle) and B. Greece and Italy are having problems. Does not mean that A caused B. Greece had these problems before the Euro as well.

I know your not that retarded so at least be honest and say you're being disingenuous.

 

[fskimospy]

You're better than that, attributing their problems to fiat based currency whose monopoly control exists outside of their domain is not why they have their problems. Their problems are due to excessive government and/or too little taxation.

Just because A. Euro printing is not monopolized by each state that participates in the Euro (commodity standard principle) and B. Greece and Italy are having problems. Does not mean that A caused B. Greece had these problems before the Euro as well.

I know your not that retarded so at least be honest and say you're being disingenuous.

Or I just don't ascribe to clown college economics. There are a number of other countries that have greater debt to GDP ratios than either Italy or Greece, yet face far better interest rates than they do. It is directly related to Italy and Greece being on the quasi gold standard of the Euro, just more evidence as to why the gold standard is such a hilariously awful idea.

Then again, you are among the people who doesn't believe in evidence, so whatever.

 

[First]

You really think something this big collapses over night? This was the biggest most powerful and wealthiest country in the world, with the brightest people and most innovation. Now it is a hollowed out husk drowning in debt stripped of most of its natural resources with a dumbed down mindhumped majority subclass of intellectual slaves conditioned through the controlled media to believe that the solution to our problems is more of the same and that people like Ron Paul are loons. There you go. You will get exactly what you deserve.

Wait, how is the U.S. a hollowed out husk, because we have debt? I suppose if you think the debt problem will never be solved (it will and has been on the right track for many months), then your nonsense might make some sense. But bottom line is that the U.S. has added 3M+ private sector jobs over the last 2 years despite a worldwide financial collapse, panic in Europe this year and general political disarray here in the U.S. The resiliency of the U.S. economy is quite palpable and some nuttery about hyperinflation or the devaluation of the U.S. dollar, which is mostly due to the Chinese yuan fixed exchange rate, isn't going to change that resilency.

But Ron Paul is not wrong. The US currency, once the strongest in the world, has lost its value at a breathtaking pace. It might help if you looked at the value of the dollar as it is for the bottom 99%. The antics of the top 1% have served to mask at least half of the currency's true decline, but it is still breathtaking nonetheless.

What negative effects have overwhelmed the positive effects of the economic growth over the past 30 years that Ron Paul has been saying those things? Can you think of anything? I can think of income inequality, of course, but that has nothing to do with the devaluation of the dollar. You got anything empirical? As always, no, Paulbots never do.

 

[momeNt]

Or I just don't ascribe to clown college economics. There are a number of other countries that have greater debt to GDP ratios than either Italy or Greece, yet face far better interest rates than they do. It is directly related to Italy and Greece being on the quasi gold standard of the Euro, just more evidence as to why the gold standard is such a hilariously awful idea.

Then again, you are among the people who doesn't believe in evidence, so whatever.

The fact that you actually believe my A to B example is really sad though. I'm surprised you weren't being disingenuous about the statement and actually believe it. I really am. Your fight against any push towards a commodity backed currency is bordering on religious.

 

[fskimospy]

The fact that you actually believe my A to B example is really sad though. I'm surprised you weren't being disingenuous about the statement and actually believe it. I really am. Your fight against any push towards a commodity backed currency is bordering on religious.

This reminds me of how creationists continually accuse evolutionists of being just as religious, only in the opposite direction. (btw, Ron Paul is a creationist! Hooray!) It's not possible to argue with you about economic issues because you don't accept evidence. Therefore there's literally nothing anyone can say to you to convince you otherwise. I mean, can you describe to me a way in which you could be convinced that Austrian economics are wrong?

The fact that someone who explicitly discounts empirical evidence would accuse someone else of holding religious views is pretty rich though.

 

[momeNt]

This reminds me of how creationists continually accuse evolutionists of being just as religious, only in the opposite direction. (btw, Ron Paul is a creationist! Hooray!) It's not possible to argue with you about economic issues because you don't accept evidence. Therefore there's literally nothing anyone can say to you to convince you otherwise. I mean, can you describe to me a way in which you could be convinced that Austrian economics are wrong?

The fact that someone who explicitly discounts empirical evidence would accuse someone else of holding religious views is pretty rich though.

Is that A causes B example I gave you empirical? I'm amazed that you can actually believe what you're saying right now. Greece has problem, Greece on Euro, Euro is problem.

USA has problem, USA on fiat, fiat is problem.

I did it! I'm an establishment economist now. Send that PHD from Princeton certified USPS please. Thanks.

 

[Lemon law]

My criticism of Ron Paul are in the economic area. Especially in the lack of unregulated economy.

Every time we relax common sense regulation we get a S&L meltdown, an Enron, corporate raiders buying sound companies and screwing stock holders, and now to add insult to injury, we had a world wide economic meltdown as stockbrokers were allowed to bundle worthless home mortgage stock as grade AAA rated assets.

Its simple the golden rule, they who have the gold make the rules.

Look at all the 19'th century hero's like J.P. Morgan, John D. Rockefeller, and so many other Robber Barons. If you asked them, their success was achieved with superior character, but a even casual study showed they manipulated the free market to tilt in their favor. In the case of Rockefeller, he demanded and got the best rail road shipping rates, his competitors had to pay more, and then to guild the lily the rail roads refunded the difference back to John D. Rockefeller.

As for Ron Paul, he has a mosquito sized brain understanding of American or world history. But you don't have to be right, when you have all kinds of Paul Bots willing to fund Ron Paul every time he plays Don Quixote and runs for Prez.

 

[fskimospy]

Is that A causes B example I gave you empirical? I'm amazed that you can actually believe what you're saying right now. Greece has problem, Greece on Euro, Euro is problem.

USA has problem, USA on fiat, fiat is problem.

I did it! I'm an establishment economist now. Send that PHD from Princeton certified USPS please. Thanks.

That's not empirical evidence in any way that matters, no. Also, nobody has endorsed the silly argument you are trying to claim I support. Other countries around the world with their own currencies face sharply lower interest rates than Italy and Greece despite several of them having far worse debt/GDP situations. Greece and Italy's response to their debt levels has been hobbled by the de facto gold standard they are a part of, and it's further evidence as to why nobody will ever go back to it.

You didn't answer my question though. Can you describe a scenario to me in which you would be convinced that Austrian economics is wrong?

 

[momeNt]

I'll acknowledge evidence as long as we can establish what that evidence is worth and found that everything else can be controlled to allow the analysis of the variable being altered. Until economics is able to do that, the evidence will continue to be flawed on macro scales because there are simply too many uncontrolled variables.

A way that you can prove to me that Austrian economics has it wrong... hmm.. it would have to probably start with proof that human behavior can be scientifically predicted. Austrian economics roots is in the analysis of human action. Establishment economics roots is in the analysis of classes.

Edit: That still wouldn't even prove that Austrian economics is wrong, it would just open it up to the possibility, being able to scientifically predict human action may just prove that analysis on a large class level is hopelessly pointless.

 

[Siddhartha]

the average US voter is a retarded sack of shit that only cares about himself and his small little world.

they are incapable of understanding RP's message and instead when they watch the debates, will remember and vote for whoever is the drama king or whoever punk'd the other guys the most. basically a high school popularity contest.

the average american can probably name the whole cast of jersey shore instead of the four presidents on mt. rushmore.

The truth is the current US government is what the majority of US voters want. Now some of them might not want the government to benefit everyone but they do want it to benefit them, their family, friends, and maybe people who look like them. This is why Mr Paul, to keep his job, fought to get as much federal funds for his district.

If Mr Paul's policies and agenda are not what most voters want he is not going to get anymore support than he is currently getting.

 

[ericlp]

I took the time to make my list, I'm not going hold your hand or babysit you though all the links to provide you sources. Your a tool if you can't find it yourself ... Tho, if you want a president that can't even accept evolution as a theory... I think MOST people do... That ALONE proves he is not capable of making sound decisions and should not be president.

YeeeHa!

 

[momeNt]

Ron Paul 2012 actually destroyed my drive home yesterday.

I-88 westbound (chicago area)

Some people were holding a Ron Paul 2012 banner on the overpass and all the cars were slowing down to get a better look. Once the drivers passed the banners, no congestion.

I honked for them.


edit: http://www.ronpauldupage.com/

 

[Nemesis 1]

You really think something this big collapses over night? This was the biggest most powerful and wealthiest country in the world, with the brightest people and most innovation. Now it is a hollowed out husk drowning in debt stripped of most of its natural resources with a dumbed down mindhumped majority subclass of intellectual slaves conditioned through the controlled media to believe that the solution to our problems is more of the same and that people like Ron Paul are loons. There you go. You will get exactly what you deserve.

But Ron Paul is not wrong. The US currency, once the strongest in the world, has lost its value at a breathtaking pace. It might help if you looked at the value of the dollar as it is for the bottom 99%. The antics of the top 1% have served to mask at least half of the currency's true decline, but it is still breathtaking nonetheless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=91K884a_1Cw

 

[UberNeuman]

So, how do the Ron Paul supporters deal with the fact that Ron Paul has taken from the government in his years representing his district?

\and yet keeps whining about it....
\\anyone who supports Dr. Paul - please... tell me where he isn't a worse hypocrite than those "he" decries...

 

[DucatiMonster696]

So, how do the Ron Paul supporters deal with the fact that Ron Paul has taken from the government in his years representing his district?

\and yet keeps whining about it....
\\anyone who supports Dr. Paul - please... tell me where he isn't a worse hypocrite than those "he" decries...

Can you exactly clarify on what you mean by "he has taken from government" and what exactly it is that he has taken which if we use the insinuation being put fourth by your reasoning "belonged to government" please?