Ron DeSantis continues the Republican whitewash of issues like discrimination, race and this country's history.

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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,493
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I stated earlier that I think history should not be censored in any way...
So you're okay with teaching that slavery was integral to the country from its inception, a cornerstone of its economic success, and that the attempt to maintain such a system significantly shaped the legal and socio-political structure of the country, the effects of which are still felt today?
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
35,966
27,643
136
So you're okay with teaching that slavery was integral to the country from its inception, a cornerstone of its economic success, and that the attempt to maintain such a system significantly shaped the legal and socio-political structure of the country, the effects of which are still felt today?
He won't agree to the truth despite his rhetoric
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,734
18,004
146
So you're okay with teaching that slavery was integral to the country from its inception, a cornerstone of its economic success, and that the attempt to maintain such a system significantly shaped the legal and socio-political structure of the country, the effects of which are still felt today?

Oh totally, as long as you mention that handful of black slave owners too. 🙄
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,382
7,445
136
So you're okay with teaching that slavery was integral to the country from its inception, a cornerstone of its economic success, and that the attempt to maintain such a system significantly shaped the legal and socio-political structure of the country...

That much was and should still be taught.
If there are places where such a basic notion of America's identity is ignored, then it is of little surprise that we have no common ground with which to maintain our Union.

the effects of which are still felt today?

The implications of that history, however.... absolutely true but something that had to be puzzled out. Was never taught nor addressed.

Do you have kids?

No, but I was in the 90s.

And in my southern California public school district, whose city population was > 200,000, the history book's final pages did mention the Gulf War, but the class was never going to get anywhere near current events before the end of the school year. Only the final few chapters had anything past 1900ad. You had to ignore the class / instructor and read ahead on your own. Plenty of time to do that while bored, though i imagine only a handful of students would have bothered.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,717
47,406
136
Everyone wants 'factual' history to be taught, it's just that what people consider 'factual' depends heavily on their opinion. The idea that there's some objective factual curriculum to be taught that everyone would agree on as factual is a ridiculous fantasy.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
35,966
27,643
136
Everyone wants 'factual' history to be taught, it's just that what people consider 'factual' depends heavily on their opinion. The idea that there's some objective factual curriculum to be taught that everyone would agree on as factual is a ridiculous fantasy.
What part of what @Fenixgoon posted is up for interpretation? Let people who disagree with it explain and the debate will be on.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,201
14,877
136
So you're okay with teaching that slavery was integral to the country from its inception, a cornerstone of its economic success, and that the attempt to maintain such a system significantly shaped the legal and socio-political structure of the country, the effects of which are still felt today?

Lol! That reminds me of the obamacare vs the aca polling a few years back. Call it CRT and it’s a hell no, call it accurate history and suddenly, yeah let’s teach that!
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,717
47,406
136
What part of what @Fenixgoon posted is up for interpretation? Let people who disagree with it explain and the debate will be on.
The economic influence is somewhat debatable but that's not really my point - the argument would be that he left out key facts.

To be clear, I agree with him on those points, but that doesn't change the fact that it is literally impossible to teach 'purely factual' history as the choice of what to include or not is an editorial one.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
35,966
27,643
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The economic influence is somewhat debatable but that's not really my point - the argument would be that he left out key facts.

To be clear, I agree with him on those points, but that doesn't change the fact that it is literally impossible to teach 'purely factual' history as the choice of what to include or not is an editorial one.
That's fine. Let them articulate the "facts" omitted and the debate is on. Seems as soon as you ask righties for specifics they go silent.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,717
47,406
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That's fine. Let them articulate the "facts" omitted and the debate is on. Seems as soon as you ask righties for specifics they go silent.
Well of course that's the point, you say 'I just want the facts to be taught' because that sounds good and is what people want to hear, but then you interpret 'the facts' to mean 'whatever I think should be taught'.

Sometimes this is done by bad faith liars but there are plenty of people too obtuse to see any difference between their opinion and what they consider to be the 'objective facts'.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
35,966
27,643
136
Well of course that's the point, you say 'I just want the facts to be taught' because that sounds good and is what people want to hear, but then you interpret 'the facts' to mean 'whatever I think should be taught'.

Sometimes this is done by bad faith liars but there are plenty of people too obtuse to see any difference between their opinion and what they consider to be the 'objective facts'.
That's exactly why 20 something residents of Tulsa OK didn't know about the race massacre until the recent anniversary. School districts didn't think that was worth teaching in history until 2005. Why they didn't teach it is open to interpretation but the answer is obvious to me.
 

Grey_Beard

Golden Member
Sep 23, 2014
1,825
2,007
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More evidence of this. They cannot even resist the tropes that Dems might be responsible for even Nazi events, even though the event she called out had nothing to do with Dems. I drove past this on Saturday and confronted these filth. What a disgrace. Amazing that you can be going about your business, be confronted with this hate and the political team takes a shot at their opponents before calling out these actions. They cannot even start by supporting the people who live here and vote. This really is a 3rd-World country in this State.

 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,717
47,406
136
More evidence of this. They cannot even resist the tropes that Dems might be responsible for even Nazi events, even though the event she called out had nothing to do with Dems. I drove past this on Saturday and confronted these filth. What a disgrace. Amazing that you can be going about your business, be confronted with this hate and the political team takes a shot at their opponents before calling out these actions. They cannot even start by supporting the people who live here and vote. This really is a 3rd-World country in this State.

My favorite part is the shift where they go from 'this was so bad it must have been Democrats in disguise trying to frame us' to 'actually, that was good and we did it'.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,279
4,406
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So you're okay with teaching that slavery was integral to the country from its inception, a cornerstone of its economic success, and that the attempt to maintain such a system significantly shaped the legal and socio-political structure of the country, the effects of which are still felt today?


I disagree with the Inception part as that wasn't the plan and was only a solution as presented by the Dutch slave traders which they took advantage of.

In the original settlement plans they were using White bond servants, paying their passage across the ocean from Europe through indentured labor. But that wasn't enough.

I'm OK with saying:

Slavery was started in this country in the beginning to make up for a labor shortages and it became one of the factors of its economic success. And that the attempt to maintain such a system significantly shaped the legal and socio-political structure of the country, the effects of which are still felt today?
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,734
18,004
146
OK, You know what I meant..

You should be more clear to show that you understand the difference. See, the guy with secret reasons needs to be more precise.

Why would you leave that out?

I didn't say I would. You're response to factual teaching of history was to bring it up. Seems like a red herring on your part. "see, black people did it too!"

btw, wasn't part of any school curriculum I was part of. So it was already left out.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,734
18,004
146
I disagree with the Inception part as that wasn't the plan and was only a solution as presented by the Dutch slave traders which they took advantage of.

In the original settlement plans they were using White bond servants, paying their passage across the ocean from Europe through indentured labor. But that wasn't enough.

I'm OK with saying:

Slavery was started in this country in the beginning to make up for a labor shortages and it became one of the factors of its economic success. And that the attempt to maintain such a system significantly shaped the legal and socio-political structure of the country, the effects of which are still felt today?

You just injected your bias into it. Fenixgoon made no mention of race or part of a plan, just that it was integral to the country from the get go. That appears to be factual, as it's the way it went.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,717
47,406
136

New Hampshire as well, are these people insane
Not sure if it was mentioned here already but a bill introduced in Oklahoma wants to ban teaching anything that is contrary to a student's strongly held religious beliefs. Presumably this would outlaw the teaching of evolution.


No public school of this state, as defined pursuant to Section 1-106 of Title 70 of the Oklahoma Statutes, shall employ or contract with a person that promotes positions in the classroom or at any function of the public school that is in opposition to closely held religious beliefs of students.

As per usual it is enforced by a Texas style bounty mechanism.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
35,966
27,643
136
Still not a big deal, @pcgeek11? Not just this incident but others like it all over the country where you response has been "no big deal" or "states are free to operate as they see fit"
 

Grey_Beard

Golden Member
Sep 23, 2014
1,825
2,007
136
Not sure if it was mentioned here already but a bill introduced in Oklahoma wants to ban teaching anything that is contrary to a student's strongly held religious beliefs. Presumably this would outlaw the teaching of evolution.




As per usual it is enforced by a Texas style bounty mechanism.

These kinds of laws are a disaster waiting to happen. It amazes me that folks are good with this or feel this is an appropriate approach to education.