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Romney praises socialised medicine

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nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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I'm not sure what the point is that you're trying to make. But, did you perhaps leave out the point that pretty much ALL of their health care is spending by their government?
The point is that if the Israeli government and US governemnt spend approximately the same on health care (as % of GDP) why is the US Government failing to cover everyone?

And why is the obvious solution to this problem more government spending on health care?
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
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Fairness is people getting what they deserve. Being born in the United States does not make you entitled to have other people paying for your health care.
What we deserve is a healthy population. Lets use that crackwhore as an example.

She develops chronic cough, can not afford to go to the doctor, so she just walks around coughing all the time.

Come to find out, the cough is tuberculosis. Who knows how many people she passed the infection to.

By providing treatment to the needy, we improve the overall health of the general population.

Its kinda like providing no-cost vaccines to needy children. By providing a service to a under-served population, we improve the overall health of the general public.
 

Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
May 14, 2012
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Fairness is people getting what they deserve.
Exactly!

So when a 35-year-old woman gets laid off from her job at MegaCorporation X, despite the company earning record profits and paying its CEO $10 million a year, and she develops breast cancer, and has no insurance so has to spend every penny she owns on hospital bills and has to declare bankruptcy, well, that's what she "deserved".

And the CEO who gets a raise to $12 million for laying her off, he "deserves" that too.

What a great society you want to live in.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
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So according to your definition of fairness. If you work on a project with someone at work and you do all the work, while they spending their time facebooking and flirting with interns and your boss gives each of extra credit... that would be fair o_O
Hey let's play the strawman game!
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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Exactly!

So when a 35-year-old woman gets laid off from her job at MegaCorporation X, despite the company earning record profits and paying its CEO $10 million a year, and she develops breast cancer, and has no insurance so has to spend every penny she owns on hospital bills and has to declare bankruptcy, well, that's what she "deserved".

And the CEO who gets a raise to $12 million for laying her off, he "deserves" that too.

What a great society you want to live in.
CEOs are clearly overpaid. But that has nothing to do with socialized medicine.

And as I said it would be possible to develop a medical system that covered those who deserved it, but not those who did not. But liberals have zero interest in doing so.
 

Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
May 14, 2012
6,762
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And as I said it would be possible to develop a medical system that covered those who deserved it, but not those who did not. But liberals have zero interest in doing so.
The problem is that "deserving" is a value judgment, and thus inherently subjective. You will never find any way of getting people to agree on who "deserves" what.

Even the people you think "deserve" to die in the streets are human beings. And while you want to damn them for their choices, many of them are there because of circumstances beyond their control.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
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Its not a strawman. I was pointing out why his definition of fairness was retarded.
It would be if we were talking about everyone receiving equal pay for their jobs regardless of work, but we're not.

I'll make up my own strawman: According to your definition of fairness, the fire department wouldn't show up to put out a fire at a poor person's house.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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It would be if we were talking about everyone receiving equal pay for their jobs regardless of work, but we're not.
Instead we are talking about everyone receiving equal health care regardless of their life choices.

Seems pretty similar actually.

I'll make up my own strawman: According to your definition of fairness, the fire department wouldn't show up to put out a fire at a poor person's house.
Fire departments are largely paid through property tax. Assuming that the poor person has paid his property tax why wouldnt they show up?

Your strawman breaks down, because owning property in and of itself pretty much show you to not be a complete moron/sloth.
 

Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
May 14, 2012
6,762
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Your strawman breaks down, because owning property in and of itself pretty much show you to not be a complete moron/sloth.
It's true. Lottery winners are all geniuses.

And Paris Hilton... why, she puts Steven Hawking to shame. Same with the Kardashians.

PS. Hawking totally deserves to be in that wheelchair.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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It's true. Lottery winners are all geniuses.

And Paris Hilton... why, she puts Steven Hawking to shame. Same with the Kardashians.

PS. Hawking totally deserves to be in that wheelchair.
I would propose some very simple and reasonable rules to receive societal support:

1.) Graduate high school
2.) No children out of wedlock
3.) No drug use or committing violent crimes or theft.

If you are unwilling to do the very basic things to avoid become trouble for society then you do not deserve and help.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
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Fire departments are largely paid through property tax. Assuming that the poor person has paid his property tax why wouldnt they show up?
Not if their property tax is less than average. Remember, it's not fair for someone else to pay for their protection from fire.

Your strawman breaks down, because owning property in and of itself pretty much show you to not be a complete moron/sloth.
Fine, how about police not investigating/charging people who assault poor people. Same situation (the people are definitely not paying equal share for the police department), no requirement to own property.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
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Not if their property tax is less than average. Remember, it's not fair for someone else to pay for their protection from fire.



Fine, how about police not investigating/charging people who assault poor people. Same situation (the people are definitely not paying equal share for the police department), no requirement to own property.
I outlined above some very basic things I believe people should be required to do to be part of society. If people are unwilling to do that then I do not really care if they get beat by others.
 
Nov 29, 2006
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So basically liberals want to enforce Christian morality onto us... I thought they were against that sort of thing :confused:
Not many deny Jesus stood for good things. And that morality is pretty universal outside religion. We just don't want religion forced on us.

But for a Christian believer not to follow Christ's teachings... Well that's just hypocrisy.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
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Not many deny Jesus stood for good things. And that morality is pretty universal outside religion. We just don't want religion forced on us.

But for a Christian believer not to follow Christ's teachings... Well that's just hypocrisy.
When have I ever stated my religious beliefs, or used religion to justify any position that I hold?

Hint: its never.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
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So you're just a regular run of the mill asshole then? Better than being a Christian hypocrite at least.
Expecting people to live their lives in a fashion the will minimize their risk of needing to be bailed out be society is not being an asshole. It is being sane.
 

MooseNSquirrel

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2009
2,581
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I would propose some very simple and reasonable rules to receive societal support:

1.) Graduate high school
2.) No children out of wedlock
3.) No drug use or committing violent crimes or theft.

If you are unwilling to do the very basic things to avoid become trouble for society then you do not deserve and help.
Ooooh this is fun!

So children born out of wedlock are excluded.

Homes which include the above will no longer receive water, electricity, sewage, mail, police or fireman services.

Said folks will be barred from libraries and sending their children to public school.

No access to public roads.

What else?
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
30,118
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Way to go Romney giving props to socialised medicine. But wait isn't it his position in the United States that the ACA is socialised medicine and constantly rails against it?
Candidate Romney says one thing. President Romney will do another.

This gaffe is a look into what the man actually believes, especially since he IS the godfather of Obamacare.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
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Ooooh this is fun!

So children born out of wedlock are excluded.

Homes which include the above will no longer receive water, electricity, sewage, mail, police or fireman services.

Said folks will be barred from libraries and sending their children to public school.

No access to public roads.

What else?
I would suggest preventing people from having children out of wedlock to begin with.
 

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