Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
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Who has the convenient excuses now? A six-week old born child could be handed off to a relative or even given to state care and would still live. A six week old fetus WILL DIE outside the mother's body, no amount of modern medicine could save it. What's the same thing?
The partial-birth abortions account for much less than 1% of all procedures performed, and include being agonizing decisions for women including those that find out that a baby would be born with an empty skull cavity or the like. Saying it is a tough decision is a gross understatement. One woman in such a position was in deep depression for months after the procedure and says that going the full term to birth of such a fetus would have made things much worse.
I go back and forth in my belief of whether Roe v Wade will be overturned. My initial thought was "there's not a chance", but the current climate and administration have so many puzzle pieces in place to get what they'd like... I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the case toppled over.
I go back and forth in my belief of whether Roe v Wade will be overturned. My initial thought was "there's not a chance", but the current climate and administration have so many puzzle pieces in place to get what they'd like... I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the case toppled over.
What if giving birth would put the mother's life at risk?
The traditional Inuti people believe that the baby is not really alive until it is named. So when they have a baby that a family can't support or sometimes if it is a girl and they want a boy they just put the baby outside their doorstep and let someone else take it or have it freeze.
CPA
Elite Member
- Nov 19, 2001
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I don't think that is that much true nowadays. Health and sex education have pretty much pushed math and reading to secondary subjects in most school districts. Hell, even when I went to school in the 80s we were being taught conception and contraception starting in the 7th grade, and this was in a very rural school in the boondocks of upstate NY.
When I was younger I imagined that access to condoms at school would make kids more promiscuous. I just read or heard some study, however, that seems to suggest that kids were slightly less apt to have sex when they had condoms available at school. Kinda surprised me a bit but I wouldn't disagree with what it argues.
wow
...if you cant see the difference between a baby or child and a fetus then you need some serious help and I would also suggest you start seeing a therapist.
So, making it more difficult to MURDER someone is an un-Christian attitude, eh? That's some great logic there. I guess the support of the wholesale slaughter of children is the epitome of Christian ethics. Get a clue.
I do not wish ill will upon anyone, I just want them to take responsility for their actions.
Why is that? Some here believe that once the two haploid cells combine to form a diploid cell, a human being is then created. If you don't agree with that, that's fine. I don't agree with your stand point but I don't think you should see a therapist.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
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No, the epitome of Christian ethics is understanding, compassion, and forgiveness for your fellow human being, things you appear to lack.
And you want "them" (meaning females) to take more responsibility by degrading them. You've made that clear enough.
edit:
Matthew 7:12, Jesus speaking:
"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."
Given the same circumstance, would you want others to force you into a back alley with a coat hanger?
Partial birth is horrendous... I haven't met a single doctor that's comfortable with it. I have a lot of doc friends too.
How did I "degrade" women? Show me where I degraded them. I degraded them by thinking they don't need to resort to murder because their actions caused them an inconvenience? How is the world is that degrading?
Edit? Where is the compassion for the unborn child??? I'm behaving in an un-Christian manner because I have more compassion for the unborn child who did not choose to be conceived, whereas, in a majority of cases, the woman knew full well what they were doing? Ridiculous.
Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
Why is that? Some here believe that once the two haploid cells combine to form a diploid cell, a human being is then created. If you don't agree with that, that's fine. I don't agree with your stand point but I don't think you should see a therapist.
not sure what your implying. of course a fetus is human. but to equate having an abortion and dismembering your 6wk old child is..... just wow.
Originally posted by: josphII
Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
Why is that? Some here believe that once the two haploid cells combine to form a diploid cell, a human being is then created. If you don't agree with that, that's fine. I don't agree with your stand point but I don't think you should see a therapist.
not sure what your implying. of course a fetus is human. but to equate having an abortion and dismembering your 6wk old child is..... just wow.
Yes. Something that you cannot see the comparison in. But just because you cannot see the equality between acts doesn't mean that he's a looney. I believe that once those two cells combine, an abortion in any form after that is murder. You don't agree, and that's fine.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
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Sigh... if we're still using the example of the 6-week fetus, then it isn't murder. I already explained that half the page ago. A 6-week old fetus cannot live with the mother's direct physical sustenance. This is not the same as the nurturing required to raise a child.
But I'm done arguing with you. I'm sure there is no flaw or imperfection in your life, which is why you have now dedicated that life to correcting others.
Originally posted by: josphII
Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
Why is that? Some here believe that once the two haploid cells combine to form a diploid cell, a human being is then created. If you don't agree with that, that's fine. I don't agree with your stand point but I don't think you should see a therapist.
not sure what your implying. of course a fetus is human. but to equate having an abortion and dismembering your 6wk old child is..... just wow.
A child in the third trimester is in many cases able to survive outside of the mother's womb(with substantial care, mind you). So tell me, what is the difference to the child whether it is dismembered 6 weeks before or 6 weeks after it is born?
If that were truly the case, why are so many young girls getting pregnant every year? If they really had a proper understanding of what happens when you insert Tab A into Slot B without contraception, I doubt there would be millions of unwanted pregnancies every year. Hell, there are still the usual rumors floating around that you can't get pregnant if you have sex standing up or if you do it in a hot tub, etc. Whatever the level of education out there, it's not high enough. And I'm not just referring to schools, I'm placing a lot of the blame on parents. If you're a parent, you have firsthand experience with conception, right. Sit your kid down and spell it all out for them....pull no punches. I was sexually active fairly early on in high school and have never (unintentionally
) gotten someone pregnant, nor would I pull the bullsh*t male routine of saying "But I love you so I don't have to wear a condom, right?" because I knew exactly what the stakes were.Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
Originally posted by: josphII
Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
Why is that? Some here believe that once the two haploid cells combine to form a diploid cell, a human being is then created. If you don't agree with that, that's fine. I don't agree with your stand point but I don't think you should see a therapist.
not sure what your implying. of course a fetus is human. but to equate having an abortion and dismembering your 6wk old child is..... just wow.
Yes. Something that you cannot see the comparison in. But just because you cannot see the equality between acts doesn't mean that he's a looney. I believe that once those two cells combine, an abortion in any form after that is murder. You don't agree, and that's fine.
but he just said "of course a fetus is human" so if you kill a human, it's called murder, right josph?
I'm a sinner just like everyone else, and I'm not afraid to admit it. Just because I'm not perfect doesn't mean I don't take responsbility for my actions and don't expect others to do the same. I'm not advocating the execution of all the women out there who have had abortions. I'm saying that they should not be given easy access to murder their children. That is all. That's the whole point.
I disagree with your definition of murder, but when did I ever specify a 6 week old fetus? (even though I think it is wrong regardless of how long the child has been developing)
SagaLore
Elite Member
- Dec 18, 2001
- 24,036
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Fetus? Perhaps you should look up what a "partial-birth" abortion is. The baby is practically carried to full term, and labor is induced, but just before the head makes it out the birth canal the abortionist inserts a needle tube through the abdomen through the back of the baby's skull then pumps out the brains, so once the baby makes it out of the birth canal it's dead. Question is, if this isn't murder, why not just induce labor, give birth to the baby, then kill it after it's out of the birth canal?
Here, have a pic
Guys, seriously. Give the D&X thing a fscking break already. It's almost totally moot with regard to the whole discussion as it only accounts for 0.18% of abortions (or something like that), is done for medical reasons and is not an arbitrary choice on the part of the mother. You can't just carry a healthy fetus to 35 weeks and then ask your doc to abort it. I know you pro-lifers love to harp on it because it's gruesome and all, but the majority of abortions are done very early on in the pregnancy and you know it so give it a rest alright?
exactly! hell, what's the difference between destroying it 9 months before or 9 months after it's born?!
what else would a fetus be? gorilla?
i guess if you want to be technical killing a person is murder, but terminating the existence of a fetus i do not consider murder. and furthermore even if you do consider abortion murder are you really so warped in your thinking as to put it on the same level as somebody that would kill a 6wk old child???
personal responsibility is great and all, but the damage done to society through an unwanted child whom the mother is unable to raise properly, is far greater than the damage from this one instance of allowing personal responsibility to slip. as a member of society, i do not want to have to pay taxes for police protection from their children when they grow up, welfare, or whatever. you can argue that i shouldn't have to pay welfare in the first place, but the fact of the matter is is that no matter what, poor and impoverished people will always be a burden on society in a multitude of ways. now tell me, WHY THE F*CK should i pay for this?
differentiating between humans and persons, eh? They did the same thing with black people in colonial times. "Hey, those humans are black, let's consider them 3/5ths of a person" You just substitute race with age and there you go. That's incredibly arbitrary of you. So, smart guy, who determines what the "age of personhood" is? Where is that drawn. If you say "when the child is born", what about the babies that could in fact survive when born prematurely? Are they not a person until they've reached their ninth month of development? Where is the line and how do you determine precisely which child is or is not before or after that point in their development? Set it to anytime before the third trimester? What if the baby develops faster than average? Again, how do you determine for sure, whether or not the "human" you are killing is or is not a "person"?
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