Robert Reich: Eliminate payroll taxes on first $20K of income. "The people's tax cut"

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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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will you have a job if nobody wants to buy your companies product since it's so much more expensive than your competitor's counterparts?

nope.

That's the Catch 22. Still doesn't solve the problem though, even if Consumers wanted to vote with their wallets, they can't. Early on they could have, but they had no idea(although many said it would happen, especially Unions and some Companies trying to maintain Domestic Production). The Consumer was constantly assured that it would all work out fine based upon an Ideology that has turned out to have failed. So the question is, "Now what?"
 
Nov 29, 2006
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So it seems to me like free trade seems to be a cause of many ills in our society. Free trade has allowed cheap imports, a very consumerism focused citizenship, and has forced businesses to look overseas. It seems that instituting tariffs and other trade controls may be useful, but are we willing to bear the burden they bring?

I blame free trade personally. It boosts other economies while it destroys others all depending on cost of labor and cost of living in said country. Of course it would be retarded to pay someone $10/hour in a high cost of living country than to pay someone 5c/hour to someone in a low cost of living country (3rd world). Global Economy is a bad thing in my personal opinion. We just cant compete against 3rd world countries on labor costs so eventually they will have ALL the jobs outside of CEOs here in the US running those businesses in these 3rd world countires. And then we will turn into a 3rd world country all because of greed.
 

Toastedlightly

Diamond Member
Aug 7, 2004
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I blame free trade personally. It boosts other economies while it destroys others all depending on cost of labor and cost of living in said country. Of course it would be retarded to pay someone $10/hour in a high cost of living country than to pay someone 5c/hour to someone in a low cost of living country (3rd world). Global Economy is a bad thing in my personal opinion. We just cant compete against 3rd world countries on labor costs so eventually they will have ALL the jobs outside of CEOs here in the US running those businesses in these 3rd world countires. And then we will turn into a 3rd world country all because of greed.

You had me until you blamed it all on greed. I don't feel it is greed based system. It is a staying alive system. Only the fit survive while the others fade away. If being fit (not going under because someone produced your widget cheaper) is what it takes, I don't blame people for that.
 

Toastedlightly

Diamond Member
Aug 7, 2004
7,213
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That's the Catch 22. Still doesn't solve the problem though, even if Consumers wanted to vote with their wallets, they can't. Early on they could have, but they had no idea(although many said it would happen, especially Unions and some Companies trying to maintain Domestic Production). The Consumer was constantly assured that it would all work out fine based upon an Ideology that has turned out to have failed. So the question is, "Now what?"

It does all work out fine... for the world as a whole. Everyone will be more economically equal once an equilibrium is reached. We will have sacrificed our comfort in this world to help bring others out of the proverbial stone age.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
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I blame free trade personally. It boosts other economies while it destroys others all depending on cost of labor and cost of living in said country. Of course it would be retarded to pay someone $10/hour in a high cost of living country than to pay someone 5c/hour to someone in a low cost of living country (3rd world). Global Economy is a bad thing in my personal opinion. We just cant compete against 3rd world countries on labor costs so eventually they will have ALL the jobs outside of CEOs here in the US running those businesses in these 3rd world countires. And then we will turn into a 3rd world country all because of greed.
Of course, who would be able to buy the products that they make? Certainly not the domestic workers who have lost their jobs to offshoring. I'd doubt that the foreign workers would be able to afford anything that they made. Maybe the workers who are still employed, albeit, they'd have to take a huge paycut just to stay "employable".
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
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It does all work out fine... for the world as a whole. Everyone will be more economically equal once an equilibrium is reached. We will have sacrificed our comfort in this world to help bring others out of the proverbial stone age.

So raising taxes on rich and cutting taxes for lower income classes = good because we can all reach economical equilibrium then. :biggrin::sneaky:
 

Toastedlightly

Diamond Member
Aug 7, 2004
7,213
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So raising taxes on rich and cutting taxes for lower income classes = good because we can all reach economical equilibrium then. :biggrin::sneaky:

Yes, everyone does become more equal in terms of money. Is that a good thing? You tell me.

Obviously this is good for the millions of now better off people in places such as India and China (they have fare more wealth than the agrarian society they've built out of).

EDIT:
Another interesting note:
Free market people want weath spread around the world, socialism wants wealth spread to your own country. People who tout socialism decry free market and the free market in turn decries socialism.
 
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her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
It does all work out fine... for the world as a whole. Everyone will be more economically equal once an equilibrium is reached. We will have sacrificed our comfort in this world to help bring others out of the proverbial stone age.
Yes, companies do this out of the goodness of their hearts.

:rolleyes:

Once the labor gets too expensive, they'll just shift operations to another poor 3rd world country. Then the former country will go back to its "proverbial stone age" ways ready for the next round. Rinse repeat.
 

SammyJr

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2008
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And you liberals are literally the most jealous people on earth.

**Glances around** Nope, not jealous, I gots mine. I'm just pissed off that the rich guys can put my fellow Americans out of work on a whim, start wars to kill them, and pay less taxes of a percentage of their income than most of the country all while running a massive misinformation campaign on how this is all good for all of us.
 

Toastedlightly

Diamond Member
Aug 7, 2004
7,213
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Yes, companies do this out of the goodness of their hearts.

:rolleyes:

Once the labor gets too expensive, they'll just shift operations to another poor 3rd world country. Then the former country will go back to its "proverbial stone age" ways ready for the next round. Rinse repeat.

Has this happened yet in places such as China? Who says they must revert back? Is this supposition or an actually observed event?
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
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...OH HELL NO! Fuck that. That's like a super duper tax hike of about 15% and would cripple dual income families.
A payroll tax applied to incomes over $250,000 would affect only the portion of their income exceeding $250,000 each and would have the greatest effect on dual-income families with joint incomes significantly exceeding $500,000 - 15% each, only on the portion of each income that exceeds $250,000.

Oh, the Humanity!
 

SammyJr

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2008
1,708
0
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Yes, everyone does become more equal in terms of money. Is that a good thing? You tell me.

Obviously this is good for the millions of now better off people in places such as India and China (they have fare more wealth than the agrarian society they've built out of).

EDIT:
Another interesting note:
Free market people want weath spread around the world,

If by the world, you mean the rich guys pockets, then I agree. This magic free market of yours has reduced living standards for millions of Americans and increased their debt load.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
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Has this happened yet in places such as China? Who says they must revert back? Is this supposition or an actually observed event?

They may not revert back but sit back and watch the US over the new few decades to get an answer. We've pushed forward with debt over the last few decades. Considering that the average wage for both college grads and high school grads is lower than it was 10 years ago (after inflation), I'm not sure that we are not at the peak and now starting to decline. Time will tell I suppose.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,224
5,800
126
It does all work out fine... for the world as a whole. Everyone will be more economically equal once an equilibrium is reached. We will have sacrificed our comfort in this world to help bring others out of the proverbial stone age.

Hehe, on paper that sounds fine, but in the real world is very messy. The end result is very likely to be a major downgrade to the Lifestyles enjoyed in North America. I doubt that it will work as opposition to it grows over time.
 

Toastedlightly

Diamond Member
Aug 7, 2004
7,213
6
81
If by the world, you mean the rich guys pockets, then I agree. This magic free market of yours has reduced living standards for millions of Americans and increased their debt load.

So Chinese workers have not benfitted from our import of their goods? India has not benefitted as well?

If we take ourselves out of the global game via tariffs our wealth drain will slow dramatically, however I don't know if that is good or bad for us in the long run.
 

Toastedlightly

Diamond Member
Aug 7, 2004
7,213
6
81
Hehe, on paper that sounds fine, but in the real world is very messy. The end result is very likely to be a major downgrade to the Lifestyles enjoyed in North America. I doubt that it will work as opposition to it grows over time.

I don't disagree. I am merely showing that while the wealth concentrations in America are changing, overseas (where we are doing a lot of our importing from) the opposite is happening.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,224
5,800
126
Yes, everyone does become more equal in terms of money. Is that a good thing? You tell me.

Obviously this is good for the millions of now better off people in places such as India and China (they have fare more wealth than the agrarian society they've built out of).

EDIT:
Another interesting note:
Free market people want weath spread around the world, socialism wants wealth spread to your own country. People who tout socialism decry free market and the free market in turn decries socialism.

You must have missed the Cold War, because the Western propaganda at the time said the exact opposite.
 

SammyJr

Golden Member
Feb 27, 2008
1,708
0
0
It does all work out fine... for the world as a whole. Everyone will be more economically equal once an equilibrium is reached. We will have sacrificed our comfort in this world to help bring others out of the proverbial stone age.

Ah, the charity of the Free Market Religion. How it warms the soul, fills the belly, and makes the mortgage payment!
 

Toastedlightly

Diamond Member
Aug 7, 2004
7,213
6
81
Ah, the charity of the Free Market Religion. How it warms the soul, fills the belly, and makes the mortgage payment!

I never said it was good for the people in the wealthier nation.

By the way, how the hell is what I said any part of any typical free market rant? I am saying that it takes moves wealth down the slope to poverty.

Do you have any legitimate statement regarding what I said?
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
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I agree that free market can have income disparity. What we need is a forced market. We need to use our military might to seize the natural resources in other countries and distribute it amongst ourselves.