Robert Reich: Eliminate payroll taxes on first $20K of income. "The people's tax cut"

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Seems like a great idea, it'd be a boost in the arm to working class/middle class folks and Republicans would have to shut the hell up about it. Make those robber baron shills explain why every day average main street Americans shouldn't get a tax cut while wall street Americans should get all the benefits.

Instead of cutting taxes to the people whose wealth is growing at an exponential rate to everyone else's, we should give it to the people who are hurting the most and who make up the backbone of this country. And you instantly have more people spending money rather than having the rich hoard their money in savings. What a novel fucking idea.

http://robertreich.org/post/1004761998/tax-jujitsu-why-democrats-should-propose-a-peoples

Tax Jujitsu: Why Democrats Should Propose a “People’s Tax Cut”
TUESDAY, AUGUST 24, 2010
Republicans are calling the Democrat’s proposal to end the Bush tax cuts on the richest 3 percent a “tax increase,” and demagoging that it will hurt the economy and small business. This is baloney, to put it politely. Let me count the ways:

– Bush’s ten-year tax cut was designed to end this year, so it’s not a tax increase.

– Ending it for the rich simply returns them to the Clinton tax rate, which was hardly confiscatory (reminder: the Clinton years were damn good for business).

– Small businesses would barely be affected. Only 3 percent of small business owners earn over $250,000. And because it’s a “marginal” tax, the Clinton rate would apply only to the portion of their incomes over $250,000.

– Yet extending the Bush tax cut to the richest Americans would give them a $36 billion bonus next year. ($31 billion of this would go to billionaire households.) And that $36 billion would be added to the budget deficit.

– And it wouldn’t even stimulate demand and jobs, because the very rich save (rather than spend) more of their disposable income than the rest of us.

– Finally, ending the Bush tax cut for the top is fair. Income inequality has become so grotesque that the top 3 percent of households rake in almost a third of total income (the highest portion since 1928).

But by the time Democrats explain all this, it’s too late. The Republican furor over a “tax increase” has framed the debate.

Republicans understand the art of tax demagoguery: Put the other side on the defensive by forcing them to explain why a “tax increase” is warranted and they lose regardless.

So instead of playing defense, Democrats should go on the attack.

Accuse Republicans of being shills for the rich.

And don’t stop there. Do tax jujitsu. In addition to ending the Bush tax cut for the rich, put forward another proposal for growing the economy that cuts taxes on lower-income Americans.

Democrats should propose eliminating payroll taxes on the first $20,000 of income, and making up the revenue loss by applying payroll taxes to incomes above $250,000.

This would give the economy an immediate boost by adding to the paychecks of just about every working American. 80 percent of Americans pay more in payroll taxes than they do in income taxes. And because lower-income people would get most of the benefit, it’s likely to be spent.

It would also give employers an extra incentive to hire because they’d save on their share of the payroll tax. And most of the incentive would be directed toward hiring lower-income workers – who have taken the biggest hit on jobs and pay during the recession.

It wouldn’t add to the deficit. Lost revenues would be made up by applying payroll taxes to income exceeding $250,000. This is certainly fair. As it is now, the Social Security payroll tax doesn’t apply to any income over $106,000. Having the tax kick in again at $250,000 would draw on the top 3 percent of earners, who (as noted) now rake in a larger portion of total income than they have in more than 80 years.

Call it the People’s Tax Cut, and let Republicans explain why they’re against it.
 
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spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
BUSH CUT TAXES FOR ALL PEOPLE WITH THE BIGGEST CUTS BEING POOR AND MIDDLE CLASS! How many times do we have to pound this fact over leftists lies?

But cut my SS/Medicare? Any tax cut is a good thing.

-edit-
Democrats should propose eliminating payroll taxes on the first $20,000 of income, and making up the revenue loss by applying payroll taxes to incomes above $250,000.

OH HELL NO! Fuck that. That's like a super duper tax hike of about 15% and would cripple dual income families.
 
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Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
BUSH CUT TAXES FOR ALL PEOPLE WITH THE BIGGEST CUTS BEING POOR AND MIDDLE CLASS! How many times do we have to pound this fact over leftists lies?

But cut my SS/Medicare? Any tax cut is a good thing.

-edit-


OH HELL NO! Fuck that. That's like a super duper tax hike of about 15% and would cripple dual income families.

That's a load of shit, you're not counting the effect capital gains tax cuts had, which were huge:

edit: the 2003 tax cuts didn't do shit for the income brackets of the poor/middle class.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobs_a...nciliation_Act_of_2003#Tax_bracket_comparison

The capital gains tax cut was the biggest gift to the wealthy and super wealthy.

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...hest-averaged-345m-in-07-income-16-tax-rate/1

IRS: 400 richest averaged $345M in '07 income, 16% tax rate

Almost three-quarters of the highest earners' income was in capital gains and dividends taxed at a 15 percent rate set as part of Bush-backed tax cuts in 2003, the statistics show. Of the 400 earners, 289 paid a total effective federal tax rate of 20 percent or less in 2007, the last year for which figures were available, the data show. ..
 
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Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,599
126
people's tax cut, more like government's mandatory redistribution of wealth
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
BUSH CUT TAXES FOR ALL PEOPLE WITH THE BIGGEST CUTS BEING POOR AND MIDDLE CLASS! How many times do we have to pound this fact over leftists lies?
How do you reconcile that view with the Tea Party view of being Taxed Enough Already?

:D:D:D
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
people's tax cut, more like government's mandatory redistribution of wealth

Just a reminder that conservatives want to redistribute wealth upwards to the richest Americans via job loss through globalization and tax loopholes for the rich at the expense of everyone else. 16% effective tax rate for the richest 400 Americans, LMAO.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
– Bush’s ten-year tax cut was designed to end this year, so it’s not a tax increase.

BS double-speak like that that ^ really annoys me. FFS, it's a tax increase. It's not defined by the 'mechanism' that causes it or doesn't, it's a tax increase because taxes increase. Whether its due to a sunset provision that isn't renewed or a new bill is all but irrelevent.

Reich totally ignores some aspects of the Bush tax act. Reducing (or eliminating for low income types) tax on cap gains and dividends affects the value of stocks, and the larger stock market. You jack up taxes on those and stock values will fall if there's even a smidgen of rationality in the market.

Otherwise I agree that dropping FICA on the first $20K of wages (and earned income for those who are self-employed, I hope) would certainly benefit the low income earner and likely result in them spending more.

But he damn well better be correct about making up that deficit in SS funds by taxing those with salaries above $250k, or all we're doing is more looting of SS and everyone already complains about this.

Fern
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
That's a load of shit, you're not counting the effect capital gains tax cuts had, which were huge:

edit: the 2003 tax cuts didn't do shit for the income brackets of the poor/middle class.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobs_a...nciliation_Act_of_2003#Tax_bracket_comparison

The capital gains tax cut was the biggest gift to the wealthy and super wealthy.

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...hest-averaged-345m-in-07-income-16-tax-rate/1

IRS: 400 richest averaged $345M in '07 income, 16% tax rate

Stop using the top 400 people and hang up on capital gains which needs to be kept low to encourage capital investment, you're neglecting the huge tax rates on the top 10%, the dual white collar professional. And you're lying, the Bush Tax Cuts were biggest for lower and middle class. Here's the rate changes:

EGTRRA generally reduced the rates of individual income taxes:

* a new 10% bracket was created for single filers with taxable income up to $6,000, joint filers up to $12,000, and heads of households up to $10,000.
* the 15% bracket's lower threshold was indexed to the new 10% bracket
* the 28% bracket would be lowered to 25% by 2006.
* the 31% bracket would be lowered to 28% by 2006
* the 36% bracket would be lowered to 33% by 2006
* the 39.6% bracket would be lowered to 35% by 2006
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
just a reminder for you Bush voters, you destroyed our country, thanks:

2092joj.gif


Cue "BOOOOOOOOOOOOSH" comments.
 
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her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
BS double-speak like that that ^ really annoys me. FFS, it's a tax increase. It's not defined by the 'mechanism' that causes it or doesn't, it's a tax increase because taxes increase. Whether its due to a sunset provision that isn't renewed or a new bill is all but irrelevent.

Reich totally ignores some aspects of the Bush tax act. Reducing (or eliminating for low income types) tax on cap gains and dividends affects the value of stocks, and the larger stock market. You jack up taxes on those and stock values will fall if there's even a smidgen of rationality in the market.

Otherwise I agree that dropping FICA on the first $20K of wages (and earned income for those who are self-employed, I hope) would certainly benefit the low income earner and likely result in them spending more.

But he damn well better be correct about making up that deficit in SS funds by taxing those with salaries above $250k, or all we're doing is more looting of SS and everyone already complains about this.

Fern
So you agree its a tax increase put in by the Republicans, not the Democrats... got it.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Just a reminder that conservatives want to redistribute wealth upwards to the richest Americans via job loss through globalization and tax loopholes for the rich at the expense of everyone else. 16% effective tax rate for the richest 400 Americans, LMAO.

You're blaming the wrong party for that loophole. You can thank Chuck Schumer (D) for those uber rich only paying 16%.

That needs to be changed, they need to be treating that income like wages etc and paying regular tax rates (not LT cap gain rates), and paying SS on it too.

Fern
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Stop using the top 400 people and hang up on capital gains which needs to be kept low to encourage capital investment, you're neglecting the huge tax rates on the top 10%, the dual white collar professional. And you're lying, the Bush Tax Cuts were biggest for lower and middle class. Here's the rate changes:

EGTRRA generally reduced the rates of individual income taxes:

* a new 10% bracket was created for single filers with taxable income up to $6,000, joint filers up to $12,000, and heads of households up to $10,000.
* the 15% bracket's lower threshold was indexed to the new 10% bracket
* the 28% bracket would be lowered to 25% by 2006.
* the 31% bracket would be lowered to 28% by 2006
* the 36% bracket would be lowered to 33% by 2006
* the 39.6% bracket would be lowered to 35% by 2006

That's how the Rich generally make their money, do you think it's fair that they have an effective tax rate of 16% thanks to capital gains!?!?? You and I pay more than that.

edit: Ok he had TWO tax cutes... the second didn't do SHIT for the poor/middle class.

Code:
Tax Year 2002[3] 	Tax Year 2003[4]
Income level 	Tax rate 	Income level 	Tax rate
up to $6,000 	10% 	up to $7,000 	10%
$6,000 - $27,950 	15% 	$7,000 - $28,400 	15%
$27,950 - $67,700 	27% 	$28,400 - $68,800 	25%
$67,700 - $141,250 	30% 	$68,800 - $143,500 	28%
$141,250 - $307,050 	35% 	$143,500 - $311,950 	33%
over $307,050 	38.6% 	over $311,950 	35%
 
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RbSX

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2002
8,351
1
76
Wait, this isn't done in the states?

In Canada the first $9,900 is tax free provincially and $10,300 federally.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Wait, this isn't done in the states?

In Canada the first $9,900 is tax free provincially and $10,300 federally.

This isn't income tax, it's medicare and social security tax. Income taxes are like you describe with a great many people getting more back from the government than they pay.

And another thing that really pisses me off about that article. Is he serious about 80% pay more in FICA than they do in income taxes? There is something seriously wrong if this is true, meaning those 80% need to have their income taxes raised.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
This isn't income tax, it's medicare and social security tax. Income taxes are like you describe with a great many people getting more back from the government than they pay.

And another thing that really pisses me off about that article. Is he serious about 80% pay more in FICA than they do in income taxes? There is something seriously wrong if this is true, meaning those 80% need to have their income taxes raised.

You read it here first, Spidey advocating raising income taxes on 80% of Americans. Conservatives are literally the worst fucking people on the face of the earth.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Nah, there's already too many people not paying any federal taxes. I'm not completely against progressive taxation (although more and more it just seems like the overhead is not worth it), but there's enough people getting free rides.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
Nah, there's already too many people not paying any federal taxes. I'm not completely against progressive taxation (although more and more it just seems like the overhead is not worth it), but there's enough people getting free rides.

Like the super rich who have a lower effective tax rate than I do.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
779
126
I would hate to see how you act in the read world. Do you walk around saying shit like this in public?

Well, you know, as terrible as conservatives are, i don't think i've ever encountered a conservative who made a comment as terrible as spidey's.

But hypothetically speaking, if someone did that in real life, i would probably shout for everyone's attention and point that the idiot out and repeat what he just said and call him a retard publicly.
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,197
4
76
Stop using the top 400 people and hang up on capital gains which needs to be kept low to encourage capital investment, you're neglecting the huge tax rates on the top 10%, the dual white collar professional. And you're lying, the Bush Tax Cuts were biggest for lower and middle class. Here's the rate changes:

EGTRRA generally reduced the rates of individual income taxes:

* a new 10% bracket was created for single filers with taxable income up to $6,000, joint filers up to $12,000, and heads of households up to $10,000.
* the 15% bracket's lower threshold was indexed to the new 10% bracket
* the 28% bracket would be lowered to 25% by 2006.
* the 31% bracket would be lowered to 28% by 2006
* the 36% bracket would be lowered to 33% by 2006
* the 39.6% bracket would be lowered to 35% by 2006

Careful, you might have to explain the progressive tax system while you're at it.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Like the super rich who have a lower effective tax rate than I do.

That's a separate issue. I don't have a problem with tightening up on loopholes for the rich and I don't have a problem with the AMT either (unless it starts to hit genuinely middle class people).