Risky business: States tax the rich at their peril

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
Why are higher tax rates not generating more taxes?

Sure, profits are down. But since ALL corporate taxes are passed down to the consumer anyway in the form of higher cost of goods and services, wouldn't increasing the rate of personal income taxes still result in a better cash flow to government?

Well, at least at the State level, it seems that there is a bit of a migration going on and lots of those high tax payers are looking toward low tax places to park themselves.

Company owners and corporate executives, those who are the highest income earners, make the decisions where to site their businesses. And personal income taxes, direct and indirect, are increasingly important in their decision making.

Certain States, those with the highest levels of taxation, personal and corporate, are losing key businesses and key business opportunities for the future. Some businesses are moving across State lines, others are even moving to less stringent tax havens overseas.

Imagine you had a choice between a business location with a 15% personal income tax and a place with no personal income tax at all?

Picky execs who have a choice, choose JIF. And low-tax domiciles. That choice is becoming more important now that the Obama Administration is building up steam for more government spending, spending which will have drastic tax consequences and deliver absolutely nothing to those who have the most to lose.

I found the following videos from The Center for Freedom and Prosperity (CF&P) to be quite interesting. Though the speaker could learn a few rhetorical flourishes from the President, I sincerely hope the President will click through to these himself now that he is done with the fun and Games in Copenhagen.

The article below brings out the plight of States such as New York, New Jersey and California.

The first video compares government spending in the United States, Denmark, Sweden, Germany and France, and then reviews various measures of per-capita prosperity. The video also reviews scholarly studies on the inverse relationship between the size of government and economic growth.

Empirical Evidence Confirms that Excessive Government Spending Undermines Economic Performance

The next three videos provide an explanation of the Laffer Curve and why it is still seriously considered, except by fans of wealth redistribution, of course. Dull, dry, maybe. But an economics lesson that we are learning again. And again. And again.

The Laffer Curve, Part I: Understanding the Theory

The Laffer Curve, Part II: Reviewing the Evidence

The Laffer Curve, Part III: Dynamic Scoring (Corrected)

Risky business: States tax the rich at their peril

Risky business: States tax the rich at their peril
AP

By MICHAEL GORMLEY
Associated Press Writer
Sun Sep 27, 3:24 pm ET

AP writers Brian Witte in Annapolis, Md., and Susan Haigh in Hartford, Conn., contributed to this report.

ALBANY, N.Y. ? This year, New York's deep-pocketed rich were required to dig even deeper to help shore up state finances.

They now pay higher taxes on their income and on limousines and yachts, more to enter a horse in a race and more to dabble in real estate. Meanwhile, many are losing millions from the closing of business tax loopholes and those making over $1 million are losing tax deductions others get.

It even costs more to hunt foxes or pheasants and have their taxes prepared.

Now, a half-dozen states in this recession-driven movement are nervously eyeing New York to see if it's wise to demand so much from people rich enough to have a second home in less taxing states ? and for whom a change of address can be its own tax break.

Early data from New York show the higher tax rates for the wealthy have yielded lower-than-expected state wealth. Gov. David Paterson, who had always warned targeting the rich could backfire, fears that's just what happened.

Paterson said last week that revenues from the income tax increases and other taxes enacted in April are running about 20 percent less than anticipated.

The concern about millionaire flight has prompted some states, including New York, New Jersey and California, to increase the highest tax rates only temporarily. For New York, it's the second temporary increase for high earners since 2001.

The first one ended as scheduled after three years. But Paterson and economists warn that came as the economy began to grow fast into another boom, something that isn't expected now because Wall Street ? which historically provided 20 percent of state revenues ? is perhaps permanently downsized.

"People aren't wedded to a geographic place as they once were. It's a different world," said New York Lt. Gov. Richard Ravitch. He said last year's surcharge on income taxes, set to last three years, won't likely meet expectations.

So far this year, half of about $1 billion in expected revenue from New York's 100 richest taxpayers is missing. The state budget office says losses suffered in the recession could be largely to blame, and it may still come in next year when filers exhaust their extensions.

Those seeking extensions nevertheless had to pay in April at least as much as they owed in 2008. The six-month extension for the balance ends in October, but given the hard times many filers likely didn't earn much more than a year ago.

State officials say they don't know how much of the missing revenue is because any wealthy New Yorkers simply left.

But at least two high-profile defectors have sounded off on the tax changes: Buffalo Sabres owner Tom Golisano, the billionaire who ran for governor three times and who was paying $13,000 a day in New York income taxes, and radio talk-show host Rush Limbaugh. Golisano changed his official address to Florida, and Limbaugh, who also has a Florida home, announced earlier this year that he was relinquishing his home in Manhattan.

Donald Trump told Fox News earlier this year that several of his millionaire friends were talking about leaving the state over the latest taxes.

Golisano, who created 5,000 jobs from his Rochester payroll processing company, Paychex, bristled when politicians said he was bailing on New York in the spring.

"If anything, New York state has bailed out on us," he said.

And it's not just the well-known leaving.

Nancy Bell is moving her Science First manufacturer of scientific products from the Buffalo site her father founded in 1960 to Florida, which aggressively courted her and her two business-partner sons. They are building a new facility there and, with the state's help, had 1,000 applications for 20 jobs.

"It was the higher tax brackets, the so-called millionaire's tax" that forced the move, she said. "We feel we have to look to the future ... I'm leaving wonderful, wonderful friends. It's not our first choice. It's our 100th."

Maryland enacted higher tax rates for wealthier residents in 2008 to boost revenues but income from those taxes is down 6.7 percent so far this year. Officials in Maryland, as in New York, hope much of the revenue is simply delayed because of filers' extensions, however.

"Overall, as in most states, revenues are down at the higher income levels," said Joseph Shapiro, spokesman for the Maryland Comptroller's Office. He said there's no concern yet that the higher tax rates on the wealthy are driving the rich out.

The approach has been tried before.

The conservative-leaning Tax Foundation said that through the early 1990s, several states maintained double-digit income tax rates for the higher earners. Those rates were dropped, however, in the boom of a fast-growing economy.

States also realized that having a higher tax rate than their neighbors would cost them talent, lose jobs and hinder economic growth, the foundation reported in May after Hawaii joined Maryland, New Jersey, California and New York to adopt a "millionaire's tax." New York, for example, has been careful not to raise its highest rates above New Jersey's, according to the foundation.

The trend toward hitting up the rich is re-emerging because states want to avoid spending cuts or assume that revenues will always grow in the long term, the foundation said. The result is a reliance on a volatile tax source that can contribute to more boom-and-bust cycles, even if revenue from the rich rises in the short term before high earners find a way to avoid or limit taxation.

The foundation said the taxes can undermine growth, and notes even states that increased taxes on high-income earners ? New Jersey, Maryland, and California ? face shortfalls comparatively worse than others.

In May, the most recent calculation available, Maryland reported that taxes collected from top earners fell by about $100 million. The number of Marylanders with more than $1 million in taxable income who filed by the end of April fell by one-third, to about 2,000.

Often pushed as a "fair tax" measure and backed by public worker unions, pinching the rich could backfire.

"You can say, 'The millionaire is evil,' but they don't just put their money in a coffee can," said Christopher Summers, president of the nonpartisan Maryland Public Policy Institute. "They employ people ... That fact is, you need rich people to keep working hard so they will invest."
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,423
33,008
136
Tax income in the state where it is earned and it doesn't matter where the taxpayer lives.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,737
54,755
136
No one thinks that the principle behind the Laffer curve is invalid as there is certainly a level of taxation at which you would get more revenue by cutting taxes. The idea that we're anywhere near that point is pretty laughably false, as has been shown over and over and over again. The CBO has repeatedly trashed this assertion, and their predictions have turned out to be correct.

Furthermore, all corporate taxes are most certainly NOT passed on to us in one way or the other. The percentage of taxes that are passed on is open for debate, but that number is definitely not 100%.

Yet another misleading wall of text from PJABBER. Thanks for making this board less interesting yet again.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
Originally posted by: eskimospy
No one thinks that the principle behind the Laffer curve is invalid as there is certainly a level of taxation at which you would get more revenue by cutting taxes. The idea that we're anywhere near that point is pretty laughably false, as has been shown over and over and over again. The CBO has repeatedly trashed this assertion, and their predictions have turned out to be correct.

Furthermore, all corporate taxes are most certainly NOT passed on to us in one way or the other. The percentage of taxes that are passed on is open for debate, but that number is definitely not 100%.

Yet another misleading wall of text from PJABBER. Thanks for making this board less interesting yet again.

We can argue Laffer all night long, but I have to catch a bit of shuteye.

However, I am intellectually curious to see if you actually can prove the case that the ultimate consumer does not absorb the impact of any and all direct and indirect taxation put upon a company.

I may not be able to respond tonight, but I will when I awaken from my untroubled dreams...

:music: :moon: :music:
 

woodie1

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2000
5,947
0
0
Originally posted by: eskimospy

...snip...

Furthermore, all corporate taxes are most certainly NOT passed on to us in one way or the other. The percentage of taxes that are passed on is open for debate, but that number is definitely not 100%.

Interesting, I didn't know corporations were allowed to print money to pay their taxes. I thought Uncle Sam was the only one allowed to print money to pay its bills.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,948
126
Originally posted by: woodie1
Originally posted by: eskimospy

...snip...

Furthermore, all corporate taxes are most certainly NOT passed on to us in one way or the other. The percentage of taxes that are passed on is open for debate, but that number is definitely not 100%.

Interesting, I didn't know corporations were allowed to print money to pay their taxes. I thought Uncle Sam was the only one allowed to print money to pay its bills.

Selling product isn't the only way corporations make money. They could issue more stock (print money) and then use that new wealth for whatever.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
the laffer curve is only considered by hacks and ideologues, its completely irrelevant at the tax rates we have historically seen. There are much stronger arguments to be made that higher taxes make the rich work more.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: PJABBER
However, I am intellectually curious to see if you actually can prove the case that the ultimate consumer does not absorb the impact of any and all direct and indirect taxation put upon a company.

Text

the potion paid by the company is Qt(Pe-Pp)

portion paid by the costumer is Qt(Pc-Pe)
 

ebaycj

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2002
5,418
0
0
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: PJABBER
However, I am intellectually curious to see if you actually can prove the case that the ultimate consumer does not absorb the impact of any and all direct and indirect taxation put upon a company.

Text

the potion paid by the company is Qt(Pe-Pp)

portion paid by the costumer is Qt(Pc-Pe)


EXACTLY. Thank you. I've been saying this for a LONG time, but never had any way to "prove" it. I'm not an econ guy, but it just does not make sense that corporations are able to pass 100% of taxes on to their customers. At some point the higher price will create reduced sales, and it will make sense for the company to "eat" some of the tax cost, in order to lower the price and increase sales.
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
4
0
That is the mechanism of optimal pricing. Since markets set prices there is some price that maximizes revenue, and it's independent of production costs. It's where a percent increase in price equals the same percent decrease in sales. Producers can't just arbitrarily raise the price past that point because cost increases without hurting revenues even more.

You might be more of an econ guy than you think.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
the laffer curve is only considered by hacks and ideologues, its completely irrelevant at the tax rates we have historically seen. There are much stronger arguments to be made that higher taxes make the rich work more.

And only a hack would say so. I suppose you think supply side economics is only for hacks? :confused:
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Paterson seems surprised that raising taxes didn't work...

"Oct. 5 (Bloomberg) -- New York State?s income tax revenue has dropped 36 percent from the same period in 2008, Governor David Paterson said, ?frustrating? his attempt to close a projected $2.1 billion budget deficit.

?We added personal income tax, which we thought would make the falloff 10 percent to 15 percent,? Paterson, a Democrat, said on CNBC today, referring to $5.2 billion in new or increased taxes. ?This is what is so frustrating. It?s still 36 percent, meaning our revenues fell more in 2009 than they did in 2008"

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/...01087&sid=aNQ6zYnQbPTc
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: ironwing
Tax income in the state where it is earned and it doesn't matter where the taxpayer lives.

It already works that way (income is taxed in the jurisdiction where it is earned).

However, income is also taxed (again) in the jurisdiction of residence. This would be double-taxation, but that is avoided by crediting for taxes paid to another state. However, in doing so those who live in high tax juridictions still pay taxes at the highest level, whther that be theri own state of residence, or where they make the income - the tax credit mechinism means you're stuck with the highest of the two.

E.g.:

I live (or my business is located) in NY, let's say the rate is 10%.

50% of my income is derived in FL, there is no income tax.

50% is derived in NY where the rate is 10%.

100% of my income is taxed by NY because I am a resident of NY and therefor all my income is subject to tax there and I pay 10% and there is no credit for FL taxes (none paid). If FL had an income tax rate of 3% I would still pay at least 10% (3% to FL, 10% to NY less 3% credit for FL taxes = 7%. 3% + 7% = 10%)

Now if I were a FL resident, 50% of my income would untaxed, the other 50% taxed by NY. I.e., my tax burden would be cut in 1/2.

In short, if you live (reside) in a high tax juridiction, you will pay that high rate of tax on all your income. But if you live in a low tax juridiction you will pay a low tax on some or all of your income. Solution: Move to a low tax juridiction.

Annedotal Observation: My family has had beach front property in the Jacksonville?St. Augustine area in Northeast FL (just across the border with GA) for decades. Back in the 60's/70's (and maybe the 80's - don't know I was living outside the USA) the beach was very sparsely populated. Upon returning to the area in 2003 or so I noticed the beach was crowded with huge unoccupied mansions. No one there. I suspect many of these new homes were built to establish FL residency for people (no personal income tax in FL). That part of FL is the easiest/quickest to reach. It is the Northern most point, and easily reached via the JAX airpot ect just across the border. One of my wealthier clients did this exact thing.

Likewise, I live in the Smoky Moutain area of North Carolina. We are a Summer resort, and no reason for a tourist to be here in the Winter. Yet, you'd be amazed at how many cars driving around here in the dead of Winter carry FL license plates. Why? NC has an incoem tax and FL doesn't. Solution: Claim FL as your state of residence and then pay no state income tax to NC.

Taxation affects behavior; everyone should know this. That's why our tax code is ful of all kinds of exeptions etc, Congress puts those in to influence behavior.

Fern
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
the laffer curve is only considered by hacks and ideologues, its completely irrelevant at the tax rates we have historically seen. There are much stronger arguments to be made that higher taxes make the rich work more.

You mean "stronger arguments" that YOU agree with, there are "stronger arguments" that you probably don't agree with so they aren't "strong" to you. Man you guys love to throw opinion as fact around here it's awesome.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Originally posted by: woodie1
Originally posted by: eskimospy

...snip...

Furthermore, all corporate taxes are most certainly NOT passed on to us in one way or the other. The percentage of taxes that are passed on is open for debate, but that number is definitely not 100%.

Interesting, I didn't know corporations were allowed to print money to pay their taxes. I thought Uncle Sam was the only one allowed to print money to pay its bills.

Selling product isn't the only way corporations make money. They could issue more stock (print money) and then use that new wealth for whatever.

LOL. You do realize that people BUY that stocks with their own money?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Originally posted by: woodie1
Originally posted by: eskimospy

...snip...

Furthermore, all corporate taxes are most certainly NOT passed on to us in one way or the other. The percentage of taxes that are passed on is open for debate, but that number is definitely not 100%.

Interesting, I didn't know corporations were allowed to print money to pay their taxes. I thought Uncle Sam was the only one allowed to print money to pay its bills.

Selling product isn't the only way corporations make money. They could issue more stock (print money) and then use that new wealth for whatever.

Please take some finance or accounting classes. Your bolded remarks above betray an incredible lack of understanding at a very fundamental level.

Many of those who've believed selling stock in their companies is a way for it to "make money" are now in federal prison.

Fern
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
the laffer curve is only considered by hacks and ideologues, its completely irrelevant at the tax rates we have historically seen. There are much stronger arguments to be made that higher taxes make the rich work more.

And only a hack would say so. I suppose you think supply side economics is only for hacks? :confused:

not in all cases and it certainly has relevant policy points, though i think some people place FAR to much emphasis on it.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
Originally posted by: woodie1
Originally posted by: eskimospy

...snip...

Furthermore, all corporate taxes are most certainly NOT passed on to us in one way or the other. The percentage of taxes that are passed on is open for debate, but that number is definitely not 100%.

Interesting, I didn't know corporations were allowed to print money to pay their taxes. I thought Uncle Sam was the only one allowed to print money to pay its bills.

Selling product isn't the only way corporations make money. They could issue more stock (print money) and then use that new wealth for whatever.

lol are you fucking kidding me?
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: bfdd
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
the laffer curve is only considered by hacks and ideologues, its completely irrelevant at the tax rates we have historically seen. There are much stronger arguments to be made that higher taxes make the rich work more.

You mean "stronger arguments" that YOU agree with, there are "stronger arguments" that you probably don't agree with so they aren't "strong" to you. Man you guys love to throw opinion as fact around here it's awesome.

no i'm talking about empirically verified models that have been around for a generation

article is crap but it gets the basics across

W is the real wage that someone brings home after tax, so for high earners, taxing them more brings their post tax income down and they work more to maintain their standard of living. Unfortunately this is one of the worst presented econ articles i've come across on wiki
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
Another Ode To High Taxes... And Bad Government!

Tax the Rich? How's That Working?

Tax the Rich? How's That Working?

By Steven Malanga
RealClearMarkets
October 7, 2009

When David Paterson became governor of New York after Eliot Spitzer's hooker escapades, the former state senator from Harlem shocked New Yorkers by declaring that taxes were too high and that he had many friends who had left the state because there were better opportunities elsewhere. New York had to grab control of its spending rather than continue raising taxes, said the former state senator with a long tax-and-spend track record, in what amounted to the equivalent of ideological heresy.

Still, as a political lightweight and accidental governor, Paterson quickly got rolled by the big-government wing of his own party, who passed a budget for this year with $6.1 billion in projected new taxes and fees, led by sharply higher rates starting for those earning more than $200,000 a year. Asked if the budget made sense in the recession an outgunned Paterson said, "None of this makes sense."

I suppose it is cold comfort to New Yorkers that Paterson is now giving his political enemies the "I told you so" treatment. Speaking to reporters recently in Albany, Paterson noted that revenue from tax increases was running 20 percent below projections and that, in particular, the wealthy were not paying up. So far, the state had only collected about half of an expected $1 billion in income tax revenues from the state's wealthiest residents. "You heard the mantra, 'Tax the rich, tax the rich,"' Paterson said. "We've done that. We've probably lost jobs and driven people out of the state."

In a story about New York's tax woes, the Associated Press noted that other states that had enacted so-called millionaires' taxes (most of which, like New York's, start well under $1 million in annual income) were squirming upon hearing the New York's numbers. Actually, some of these states have been squirming for a while.

New Jersey enacted its half millionaire millionaires' tax in 2004. Pitched by the state's unions as the cure for Jersey's budget woes, the state collected $9.5 billion in personal income taxes in fiscal 2005. Last year, four budget cycles later, the state collected only $10.3 billion and this year it's estimating just $9.4 billion from the same tax. Revenues have fallen so far below projections that Jersey has actually had to cut its spending (not just its rate of spending, like most states) by more than $3 billion this year despite $2 billion in federal stimulus aid for the state budget. And even so, Jersey had to skip payments to its pension system. If it were a business Jersey would be insolvent, a remarkable achievement in a place whose residents boast the highest personal income in the nation.

Maryland enacted its millionaires' tax in the fall of 2007. Earlier this year the state scrambled to enact mid-year budget cuts because of a sharp shortfall in revenues. Year-to-date personal income tax collections are off by about $650 million, and the Maryland comptroller has said, "It seems reasonable to assume...that there will be a significant decline in the number of returns with taxable income over $1 million and a substantial decline in the income reported on those returns."

In each of these states there has been a debate about whether high taxes have driven the rich to relocate. Shortly after the New York State budget passed, Tom Golisano, a former Independent Party candidate and the owner of the Buffalo Sabers hockey team, said he was moving to Florida to escape the Empire State's high taxes, which amounted to $13,000 a day in his case. The head of the Working Families Party, the New York party founded by the state's unions and Acorn that had lobbied for the tax increases, said good riddance to Golisano. The New York Times, meanwhile, observed that people don't relocate because of high taxes, although at $13,000 a day the motivation for leaving seems pretty high.

But the issue goes beyond very rich guys like Golisano with a big nest egg and lots of personal mobility. Many small and mid-sized businesses that organize as sole proprietorships, partnerships and s-corporations report their earnings through the personal income taxes of the partners or owners, and hence they pay taxes at individual income tax rates. In fact, small business owners and partners are the main target of tax increases at the top rates. A 2003 study by the Tax Foundation found that two-thirds of taxpayers in the highest tax bracket report income from businesses on their tax forms. So it's not surprising that high individual tax rates discourage entrepreneurship, reduce investment and slow hiring at small firms. You don't have to scour a state to find rich people mad enough to leave in order to understand the impact of high income tax rates on a local economy.

Still there's more bad news for the states with the highest rates, which include California and Ohio. At the very least we are about to see the top two federal brackets boosted to 36 percent and 39.6 percent, and who knows what other federal tax increases are on the way. Those rises will almost certainly depress adjusted gross income among high-earners who either seek to shelter more of their income or simply work less because their next dollar earned is being taxed at a significantly higher rate. That will make it even harder for states with high tax brackets to hit future income tax projections.

In most states with double-digit (or near double-digit) top tax brackets, the combined federal and state tax bite will thus soon reach 50 percent of income, especially when you consider that the federal alternative minimum tax excludes many deductions by higher income households (including big, fat deductions for hefty state and local taxes). Add to that the fact that some states have further raised taxes by excluding some traditional deductions (New Jersey, for instance, has eliminated the property tax deduction for most households, a cruel irony in a state with the highest property taxes in the nation), and the result is a whole new definition of what even constitutes taxable income.

The pain might not be so intense if residents of these states were getting something for all of this extra taxation. But in fact the state motto in some of these places could be "High taxes, lousy government." Jersey, with the highest state and local taxes, has one of the worst performing governments in the country, according to Governing Magazine, and it invests so little in its infrastructure its roads have been rated the worst in the nation. New York, which spends much of its state budget on a Medicaid program that is twice as large as any other, doesn't have a healthier, better-cared for low-income population. California, which spent billions of dollars to lower public school class-sizes, has seen no payoff in higher test scores or graduation results.

The really bad news, however, is that there is no easy way out of this for many of these states. Their budget problems are structural and long-term and can't be fixed merely by trimming a little waste and pork here and there. Most of these states have wracked up huge debts, for instance, so that bond payments are now weighing down their balance sheets. Their bondholders must be fed or chaos will ensue.

These states also suffer from huge public employee pension and benefits obligations that are often guaranteed by law. In fact, the pension funds of these states are so underfunded they make the Social Security Trust Fund look solvent by comparison.

These long-term structure problems are one reason why prospects for local tax revolts of the type we saw in the late 1970s and early 1990s have been slow to materialize. Any reformer who looks closely at these budgets understands that the only way out are service cuts that will be felt by virtually everyone in the state.

Faced with unpalatable choices, these states sit and hope that the answer comes in the former of even more stimulus money from the Obama administration given directly to states to spend on government operations. But rising anger from politicians and citizens in states that have been fiscally responsible will make that harder.

In the next few years, it seems, we will truly test the notion of whether people will get up and move simply because of high taxes. Oh, and bad government.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
I don't give a fvck what states like these do to their citizens or how high their taxes go.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: bfdd
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
the laffer curve is only considered by hacks and ideologues, its completely irrelevant at the tax rates we have historically seen. There are much stronger arguments to be made that higher taxes make the rich work more.

You mean "stronger arguments" that YOU agree with, there are "stronger arguments" that you probably don't agree with so they aren't "strong" to you. Man you guys love to throw opinion as fact around here it's awesome.

no i'm talking about empirically verified models that have been around for a generation

article is crap but it gets the basics across

W is the real wage that someone brings home after tax, so for high earners, taxing them more brings their post tax income down and they work more to maintain their standard of living. Unfortunately this is one of the worst presented econ articles i've come across on wiki

So you want to harm those who are successful... That's stupid.